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Sherlock (2010) BBC Series Discussion Thread

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  • MrcogginsMrcoggins Following in the footsteps of Quentin Quigley.
    Posts: 3,144
    That's just why I put it in a spoiler !
    I'll be interested to see if you can spot it .
  • fire_and_icefire_and_ice
    Posts: 6,432
    @Mrcoggins mid way through this reminds me why Spectre irritates me certain cast included. ;)
  • MrcogginsMrcoggins Following in the footsteps of Quentin Quigley.
    Posts: 3,144
    Yes I never liked the man either just find him anoying in the extreme .
  • fire_and_icefire_and_ice
    Posts: 6,432
    Subtlety is a lost art, too many recent antagonists are all show with little depth.
  • MrcogginsMrcoggins Following in the footsteps of Quentin Quigley.
    Posts: 3,144
    Beautifully worded my good sir.
  • fire_and_icefire_and_ice
    edited January 2017 Posts: 6,432
    How Sherlock was written and how Cumberbatch was directed in The Final Problem Is incredibly poor, unrecognizable from his usual sociopathic tendencies. Dressed in a Tuxedo with way too much make up was bad and way too much CGI.
  • fire_and_icefire_and_ice
    edited January 2017 Posts: 6,432
    Edited

    @Mrcoggins twenty minutes to go my guess is
    I am the author of your pain... +Skyfall home wtf

    The last shot in this episode The Final Problem, spoilers... ;))

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited January 2017 Posts: 12,480
    I love the Reacher books, read them all, eagerly await the next. I would never say the films are okay with Cruise in them. Nope.

    I am way more flexible with Holmes portrayals.
    Agnes_007 wrote: »
    @fire_and_ice My Dad's biggest problem seems to be that Reacher is over 6ft in the books...and they got Tom Cruise to play him in the films!! :))

    Yeah, seriously, that is the main problem. Very tall and solid muscle, over 200 lbs. It is relevant (for many Reacher fans, but not all) and a huge problem. But that's Reacher for you. ;) There's a thread on it.

    Holmes can be many things, for me. Not Reacher.

  • fire_and_icefire_and_ice
    edited January 2017 Posts: 6,432
    4EverBonded wrote: »
    I love the Reacher books, read them all, eagerly await the next. I would never say the films are okay with Cruise in them. Nope.

    I am way more flexible with Holmes portrayals.
    Agnes_007 wrote: »
    @fire_and_ice My Dad's biggest problem seems to be that Reacher is over 6ft in the books...and they got Tom Cruise to play him in the films!! :))

    Yeah, seriously, that is the main problem. Very tall and solid muscle, over 200 lbs. It is relevant (for many Reacher fans, but not all) and a huge problem. But that's Reacher for you. ;) There's a thread on it.

    Holmes can be many things, for me. Not Reacher.
    Less flexible with Holmes though in my youth read all the stories, I should read the Reacher books :)

    I studied The Sign of Four at A Level and English Literature Degree, one of my favouraite Holmes stories. Sherlock I accept it for what it is, though it basterdizes great literature which irritates me when being purist.
  • boldfingerboldfinger
    Posts: 5,767
    fire_and_ice wrote: »
    Sherlock I accept it for what it is, though it basterdizes great literature which irritates me when being purist.
    If you´re a purist you should recognize that literature and film are two different media.



    As always, the episodes seem to blossom like a flower when I watch them repeatedly. Upon second viewing, this last episode was so much better than the first time around! I don´t know if this happens to anyone of you out there, but for me, this second time, the episode really made sense from start to finish and touched me emotionally.
    I still think it would be suicide to pursue the path they´ve chosen any longer, but I also think especially since series 3 the episodes are not really made for one-time-watchers.

  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    I thought The Final Problem was very good. Granted it took some leaps in logic but you just have to go along with it. Thought the last shot was a bit cheesy though. Feels a bit like Spectre. They can end it there or continue on with more back to basics/straight cases for Holmes and Watson. The whole thing with his sister and Mycroft could have gone wrong, but I think they did it well.
  • fire_and_icefire_and_ice
    edited January 2017 Posts: 6,432
    .
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    Mrcoggins wrote: »
    Did anyone notice a certain Bond theme ?
    When Sherlock smashes up the coffin .

    The first room after leaving the holding cell was a nod to the Tarantula room from Dr No!
  • MrcogginsMrcoggins Following in the footsteps of Quentin Quigley.
    Posts: 3,144
    Yes I thought that too and now that more people have had the chance to watch
    The use of Vespers Theme in the scene with the coffin .
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    Mrcoggins wrote: »
    Yes I thought that too and now that more people have had the chance to watch
    The use of Vespers Theme in the scene with the coffin .

    oooooh?!!! I didn't pick up that one!
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,359
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    Mrcoggins wrote: »
    Yes I thought that too and now that more people have had the chance to watch
    The use of Vespers Theme in the scene with the coffin .

    oooooh?!!! I didn't pick up that one!

    Yes, I caught it immediately. And shortly after there is a bit of Antonov from DAD.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    echo wrote: »
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    Mrcoggins wrote: »
    Yes I thought that too and now that more people have had the chance to watch
    The use of Vespers Theme in the scene with the coffin .

    oooooh?!!! I didn't pick up that one!

    Yes, I caught it immediately. And shortly after there is a bit of Antonov from DAD.

    Will have to re-watch that then!
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    I have just watched the series 4 and i feel a bit let down in that the charm it had has gone,its going the same way as Dr Who.

    The old series of Sherlock had the old jingle music and had funny moments and clever calculations,this was very serious and ,even though i understood it all,it would be over-complicated compared to the earlier series.

    And Sherlock was seriously exposed as having a weakness under pressure,which of course everyone has but not to the extent it was shown.

    At least i liked the nod to the great Basil Rathbone at the end,but this was too heavy..again showing a story-arc doesnt work with certain characters,and Bond ,Dr Who and Sherlock Holmes just need individual adventures !!!!!!!!

  • boldfingerboldfinger
    Posts: 5,767
    I can only recommend watching Series 4 several times. It´s by far the trickiest Series so far. On repeated watching, several clues get a whole new level of meaning.

    I definitely don´t advocate any deeper exploitation of Sherlock´s family background, but to me, Series 4 was rather complementary to what happened in the first three Series´, without compromising or diminishing Sherlock´s character.

    I´m not yet quite sure what to make of the final episode. The more I think about it, the more all the parts make sense, even the situations where the protagonists seriously consider to kill one of their own, which I found utterly unbelievable when I first saw the episode.
    On the other hand, that doesn´t seem to completely relieve the slightly awkward pacing of the episode.
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I have just watched the series 4 and i feel a bit let down in that the charm it had has gone,its going the same way as Dr Who.

    The old series of Sherlock had the old jingle music and had funny moments and clever calculations,this was very serious and ,even though i understood it all,it would be over-complicated compared to the earlier series.

    And Sherlock was seriously exposed as having a weakness under pressure,which of course everyone has but not to the extent it was shown.

    At least i liked the nod to the great Basil Rathbone at the end,but this was too heavy..again showing a story-arc doesnt work with certain characters,and Bond ,Dr Who and Sherlock Holmes just need individual adventures !!!!!!!!

    I don't know. When you really scrutinise the CR script and how it works and tells it's story, it's greatest strength is it's character-arc. It's a textbook example almost of a script where the plot takes the character from one point at the start to another at the end.
  • boldfingerboldfinger
    edited January 2017 Posts: 5,767
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I have just watched the series 4 and i feel a bit let down in that the charm it had has gone,its going the same way as Dr Who.

    The old series of Sherlock had the old jingle music and had funny moments and clever calculations,this was very serious and ,even though i understood it all,it would be over-complicated compared to the earlier series.

    And Sherlock was seriously exposed as having a weakness under pressure,which of course everyone has but not to the extent it was shown.

    At least i liked the nod to the great Basil Rathbone at the end,but this was too heavy..again showing a story-arc doesnt work with certain characters,and Bond ,Dr Who and Sherlock Holmes just need individual adventures !!!!!!!!

    I don't know. When you really scrutinise the CR script and how it works and tells it's story, it's greatest strength is it's character-arc. It's a textbook example almost of a script where the plot takes the character from one point at the start to another at the end.
    I think what @Tanaka123 meant was more an arc that extends over a number of films, rather than character development throughout one film.
    I think it depends very much on the execution. As far as the contents are concerned, Sherlock Series 4 isn´t much different from any other series. On the contrary, all of the first three series´ left some huge questions hanging in the air. Personal matters played a huge role right from the start. And I don´t think there is much if anything at all in the first two episodes (certainly not in the second) of this series to make people feel let down. If at all, it´s the way the final episode presents itself that could justify a sour taste in people´s mouths.
    In Bond´s case, IMNSHO it would well have been possible to make first class Bond films out of the material of the last two films, but Mendes is just a very bad choice for Bond.
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    boldfinger wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I have just watched the series 4 and i feel a bit let down in that the charm it had has gone,its going the same way as Dr Who.

    The old series of Sherlock had the old jingle music and had funny moments and clever calculations,this was very serious and ,even though i understood it all,it would be over-complicated compared to the earlier series.

    And Sherlock was seriously exposed as having a weakness under pressure,which of course everyone has but not to the extent it was shown.

    At least i liked the nod to the great Basil Rathbone at the end,but this was too heavy..again showing a story-arc doesnt work with certain characters,and Bond ,Dr Who and Sherlock Holmes just need individual adventures !!!!!!!!

    I don't know. When you really scrutinise the CR script and how it works and tells it's story, it's greatest strength is it's character-arc. It's a textbook example almost of a script where the plot takes the character from one point at the start to another at the end.
    I think what @Tanaka123 meant was more an arc that extends over a number of films, rather than character development throughout one film.
    I think it depends very much on the execution. As far as the contents are concerned, Sherlock Series 4 isn´t much different from any other series. On the contrary, all of the first three series´ left some huge questions hanging in the air. Personal matters played a huge role right from the start. And I don´t think there is much if anything at all in the first two episodes (certainly not in the second) of this series to make people feel let down. If at all, it´s the way the final episode presents itself that could justify a sour taste in people´s mouths.
    In Bond´s case, IMNSHO it would well have been possible to make first class Bond films out of the material of the last two films, but Mendes is just a very bad choice for Bond.

    I was just referring to CR.
  • boldfingerboldfinger
    Posts: 5,767
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    boldfinger wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I have just watched the series 4 and i feel a bit let down in that the charm it had has gone,its going the same way as Dr Who.

    The old series of Sherlock had the old jingle music and had funny moments and clever calculations,this was very serious and ,even though i understood it all,it would be over-complicated compared to the earlier series.

    And Sherlock was seriously exposed as having a weakness under pressure,which of course everyone has but not to the extent it was shown.

    At least i liked the nod to the great Basil Rathbone at the end,but this was too heavy..again showing a story-arc doesnt work with certain characters,and Bond ,Dr Who and Sherlock Holmes just need individual adventures !!!!!!!!

    I don't know. When you really scrutinise the CR script and how it works and tells it's story, it's greatest strength is it's character-arc. It's a textbook example almost of a script where the plot takes the character from one point at the start to another at the end.
    I think what @Tanaka123 meant was more an arc that extends over a number of films, rather than character development throughout one film.
    I think it depends very much on the execution. As far as the contents are concerned, Sherlock Series 4 isn´t much different from any other series. On the contrary, all of the first three series´ left some huge questions hanging in the air. Personal matters played a huge role right from the start. And I don´t think there is much if anything at all in the first two episodes (certainly not in the second) of this series to make people feel let down. If at all, it´s the way the final episode presents itself that could justify a sour taste in people´s mouths.
    In Bond´s case, IMNSHO it would well have been possible to make first class Bond films out of the material of the last two films, but Mendes is just a very bad choice for Bond.

    I was just referring to CR.
    I´m sorry, @Tanaka123, I mixed up your name and that of @barryt007 .

  • meddle90meddle90
    Posts: 67
    i stumbled on a few episodes by the years and i found it quite cheap and unrealistic , benedict and freeman doesn't even look threatening to a kindergarten, hell they look like teachers in high school teaching biology or something. So never mind a tough detective! I would recommend to avoid it if you're a fan of the movies, It's also way too politically correct to my taste!

    So don't watch this TV-show and go watch a good old Tom Cruise flick instead!
  • GerardGerard
    Posts: 6,017
    Good news : the soundtrack for the fourth season is on sale as of february 10th (at least on the french iTunes). If you preorder it on Amazon, there will also be a CD which will feature the music for "The Abominable Bride".

    michaelpricemusic.com/articles/sherlock-s4-soundtrack/
  • boldfingerboldfinger
    edited January 2017 Posts: 5,767
    Gerard wrote: »
    Good news : the soundtrack for the fourth season is on sale as of february 10th (at least on the french iTunes). If you preorder it on Amazon, there will also be a CD which will feature the music for "The Abominable Bride".

    michaelpricemusic.com/articles/sherlock-s4-soundtrack/
    That´s good news about music from The Abominable Bride. I read on amazon something about a 2cd set for series 4 and was wondering.

  • boldfingerboldfinger
    Posts: 5,767
    Sherlock creators/writers Steven Moffat and Mark Gatiss plan to do a Dracula-based mini-series:
    http://collider.com/dracula-series-steven-moffat-mark-gatiss/#images

    That would make it even more difficult to find time to make more Sherlock seasons.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    boldfinger wrote: »
    Sherlock creators/writers Steven Moffat and Mark Gatiss plan to do a Dracula-based mini-series:
    http://collider.com/dracula-series-steven-moffat-mark-gatiss/#images

    That would make it even more difficult to find time to make more Sherlock seasons.

    That's because Cumberbatch is the new James Bond ,just the same way The Persuaders' finished because that happened to Sir Rog ;)
  • boldfingerboldfinger
    edited June 2017 Posts: 5,767
    I wouldn´t complain ;-). Martin Freeman as M would be hilarious in that constellation :-)).
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Sherlock Does Bond...almost comic relief !!
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