Was Tim Dalton ahead of his time?

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  • actonsteve wrote:
    GE was the first one without Cubby Broccoli and at the time I was grateful it wasn't an embarassment.

    But I remember it not rocking my world like the Dalton and late Moore Bonds used to.

    Nowadays I think it is my least watched. Last time I sat down to watch it on ITV I flicked over after half an hour. Its just too safe, too by numbers, too formulaic to hold my interest.

    Its Bond for kids.

    totally agree with your sentiments!
  • The last time I watched Goldeneye, i was suprised how Moore-ish it was, some of the one liners were very Roger like and also the bit in, I think Monoco or somwhere like that with the demonstation of the jet, Brosnan even seems to wearing some of Moore's old wardrobe (blue blazer and beige trousers).

    I think it had passed through Alan Partridge before ending up with Broz...

    Although, for me, Moore + Partridge = Brosnan (in Goldeneye) hits the nail on the head!

    I do agree that he sorted himself out (hit the gym etc) and wound it in well for TND - it's a shame that film snapped its rudder clean off after the BMW scene :s
  • I always thought Dalton did an excellent job in the series. I think he prepared for the roles the best and tried to give the charecter some layers.
  • Posts: 6,601
    I always thought Dalton did an excellent job in the series. I think he prepared for the roles the best and tried to give the charecter some layers.

    What did he do in preparation?
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    Read all the books, though he was a big Fleming fan before hand and had read them before the films came out anyway. He is said to often have read them in between takes as well. That's another reason to why in many people's case, he really got Bond.
  • BAIN123 wrote:

    I'm glad he praised brosnan, the guy deserves more praise than he gets these days (he got alot of praise when he was bond but once craig took over everybody seems to criticise him). I don't really agree with what he said on dalton but I can sort of see where he's coming from, in a way. Its good he's not afraid to critiscise the bond films, like when he talks about how he didn't like the humour, and when he talks about blofelds death (I hated the way they killed blofeld too). I love how at the end he says "I doubt they could afford me"
  • BAIN123 wrote:
    Seeing people's heads explode and throwing drug dealers into meat grinders sounds like something from Lethal Weapon though - not Bond.

    It's that "ultra-violent" trend of the late 80s.

    Maybe thats why I prefer LTK over TLD. I love both daltons films but LTK, like you said, has that violent 80s action film feel. I grew up watching films like die hard so maybe thats why I like LTK the best.

  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    In that link it's nice to see Connery disown Never Say Never Again too in some regard.

    "The final straw was You Only Live Twice, the second-last one I did."
  • Posts: 11,189
    I think in some ways what Connery meant (assuming he actually said it) is that Bond, at least on film, needs to be a bit bigger than life. He needs to be a hero. Dalton didn't play him that way. Connery, Moore, Brosnan and even Craig and Lazenby to a certain degree did.

    I love Die Hard aswell :D
  • Samuel001 wrote:
    In that link it's nice to see Connery disown Never Say Never Again too in some regard.

    "The final straw was You Only Live Twice, the second-last one I did."

    I think he meant the last EON film, because when he talks about NSNA later he says that he thought the quality was important. Besides, NSNA was better than DAF, it was a remake of thunderball that didn't need to be made but turned out ok in the end.
  • Samuel001 wrote:
    Read all the books, though he was a big Fleming fan before hand and had read them before the films came out anyway. He is said to often have read them in between takes as well. That's another reason to why in many people's case, he really got Bond.

    He even cited from them when talking to John Glen on set. He took the role very seriously and really emersed himself in Fleming's work.
  • BAIN123 wrote:
    I think in some ways what Connery meant (assuming he actually said it) is that Bond, at least on film, needs to be a bit bigger than life. He needs to be a hero. Dalton didn't play him that way. Connery, Moore, Brosnan and even Craig and Lazenby to a certain degree did.

    I love Die Hard aswell :D

    Yeah, and I sort of agree with him but in alot of ways I don't. I don't think bond needs to be bigger than life.

    And who doesn't love die hard :D
  • I found Dalton to be very charming in TLD and thought he did indeed show a nice light touch with the lines. But the only women who found him attractive (at least out of the ones that I spoke to) were women over 40 and some artsy girls. Other than that the women I spoke to just didn't seem to take to him. It's funny because he's more classicly handsome than Craig but all the women I know love Craig to death. Which is actually good news for us guys because it shows how personality can overcome unconventional looks. And yes, it is personality even more than the swim trunks...

    I always got that impression too. Of all the Bonds Dalton seemed the least alluring the members of the opposite sex. I think it had to do with his messy wardrobe and old man hair. He always acted kinda old even thought he was over 10 years younger than Moore during Moore's final films. I many ways I liked how EON didn't try to "hip him up" for younger audiences but I also believe that isolated him and hence didn't endear himself the way Connery or Moore did in the past or Brosnan and Craig would in the future.
  • 002002
    Posts: 581
    well i thought that Dalton was a very good Bond (better than Craig) but the problem is that LTK was:

    1) its very american- take out Q and Bond and you got a revenge story- in fact it kinda resembles Qantum of Solace (film is released- there is a finantial/legal issue for a couple of years-only thing is that Craig stayed on and Dalton left in 94)
    2) up against strong competition- Batman, Die Hard and Indiana Jones
    3) lack of advertising- especially with the name Licence Revoked
  • 002 wrote:
    well i thought that Dalton was a very good Bond (better than Craig) but the problem is that LTK was:

    1) its very american- take out Q and Bond and you got a revenge story- in fact it kinda resembles Qantum of Solace (film is released- there is a finantial/legal issue for a couple of years-only thing is that Craig stayed on and Dalton left in 94)
    2) up against strong competition- Batman, Die Hard and Indiana Jones
    3) lack of advertising- especially with the name Licence Revoked

    Actually there was no Die Hard film released in 89. Just saying ;)
  • edited January 2012 Posts: 11,189
    I found Dalton to be very charming in TLD and thought he did indeed show a nice light touch with the lines. But the only women who found him attractive (at least out of the ones that I spoke to) were women over 40 and some artsy girls. Other than that the women I spoke to just didn't seem to take to him. It's funny because he's more classicly handsome than Craig but all the women I know love Craig to death. Which is actually good news for us guys because it shows how personality can overcome unconventional looks. And yes, it is personality even more than the swim trunks...

    I always got that impression too. Of all the Bonds Dalton seemed the least alluring the members of the opposite sex. I think it had to do with his messy wardrobe and old man hair. He always acted kinda old even thought he was over 10 years younger than Moore during Moore's final films. I many ways I liked how EON didn't try to "hip him up" for younger audiences but I also believe that isolated him and hence didn't endear himself the way Connery or Moore did in the past or Brosnan and Craig would in the future.

    That is a good point, he was too sensible at times aswell. That's not entirely his fault though as it might have had something to do with the whole Aids thing at the time. Nevertheless I find it a bit more difficult to picture him shagging the doctor to keep her quiet (Connery in Thunderball) or to clear him for duty (Brosnan in TWINE).
  • @Bain123. Yeah he's the one Bond I couldn't see using sex to get whatever he wants. He was far too romantic at time in TLD aswell. Unless he plans to marry them (Tracy, Vesper) that kind of romance has no place in a Bond film.
  • Posts: 158
    I was always and still am a massive Sean/Roger fan and didn't really appreciate Tim's portrayal at the time. It was too drastic a change in style. But years on I love TLD.
    I rate it higher than LTK anyway which would fit in perfectly with Daniel's take on the character. I can't imagine Rog or Sean in a revenge driven Bond movie,but it suits Dalton/Craig. So yes Tim was ahead of his time.
  • I always got that impression too. Of all the Bonds Dalton seemed the least alluring the members of the opposite sex. I think it had to do with his messy wardrobe and old man hair. He always acted kinda old even thought he was over 10 years younger than Moore during Moore's final films. I many ways I liked how EON didn't try to "hip him up" for younger audiences but I also believe that isolated him and hence didn't endear himself the way Connery or Moore did in the past or Brosnan and Craig would in the future.[/quote]

    As a guy judging another man's looks, I always thought Dalton was one of the more handsomer Bonds.
  • Posts: 251
    BAIN123 wrote:

    I'm glad he praised brosnan, the guy deserves more praise than he gets these days (he got alot of praise when he was bond but once craig took over everybody seems to criticise him). I don't really agree with what he said on dalton but I can sort of see where he's coming from, in a way. Its good he's not afraid to critiscise the bond films, like when he talks about how he didn't like the humour, and when he talks about blofelds death (I hated the way they killed blofeld too). I love how at the end he says "I doubt they could afford me"
    This may upset the Brosnan bashers!
    Well, we hears it from the horses mouth, Brosnan is a good actor, who bought something new to the role. Ofcourse, Mr Connery is right.

    I`ll stand back now and wait for the aggro...!

  • edited January 2012 Posts: 11,189
    We shouldn't take Connery's opinion as gospol BUT I think it is interesting nonetheless. Who's going to argue with The Big Man.
  • Shoreline wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:

    I'm glad he praised brosnan, the guy deserves more praise than he gets these days (he got alot of praise when he was bond but once craig took over everybody seems to criticise him). I don't really agree with what he said on dalton but I can sort of see where he's coming from, in a way. Its good he's not afraid to critiscise the bond films, like when he talks about how he didn't like the humour, and when he talks about blofelds death (I hated the way they killed blofeld too). I love how at the end he says "I doubt they could afford me"
    This may upset the Brosnan bashers!
    Well, we hears it from the horses mouth, Brosnan is a good actor, who bought something new to the role. Ofcourse, Mr Connery is right.

    I`ll stand back now and wait for the aggro...!

    Somehow I get the impression Connery's never even seen all of Brosnan's films. He's become so divorced from the series he probably just goes on vague recolections. Just becasue Connery says Brosnan's a good actor doesn't make it so. He might just be giving him kudos because Brosnan has always publicly kissed his a$$ and that the two have a common enemy.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited January 2012 Posts: 13,978
    BAIN123 wrote:
    We shouldn't take Connery's opinion as gospol BUT I think it is interesting nonetheless. Who's going to argue with The Big Man.

    I won't argue with Fleming.

    Connery's views on how other Bond actors approched the role is a case of 'throwing stones in glass houses'. Has he forgotten the immense enthusiasm he showed and how in shape he looked in DAF. [/sarcasm]
  • Posts: 11,189
    Shoreline wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:

    I'm glad he praised brosnan, the guy deserves more praise than he gets these days (he got alot of praise when he was bond but once craig took over everybody seems to criticise him). I don't really agree with what he said on dalton but I can sort of see where he's coming from, in a way. Its good he's not afraid to critiscise the bond films, like when he talks about how he didn't like the humour, and when he talks about blofelds death (I hated the way they killed blofeld too). I love how at the end he says "I doubt they could afford me"
    This may upset the Brosnan bashers!
    Well, we hears it from the horses mouth, Brosnan is a good actor, who bought something new to the role. Ofcourse, Mr Connery is right.

    I`ll stand back now and wait for the aggro...!

    Somehow I get the impression Connery's never even seen all of Brosnan's films. He's become so divorced from the series he probably just goes on vague recolections. Just becasue Connery says Brosnan's a good actor doesn't make it so. He might just be giving him kudos because Brosnan has always publicly kissed his a$$ and that the two have a common enemy.

    Those comments were also printed in a 2002 pull out from Empire Magazine I still have. They were published some time before Brosnan's split with EON.
  • edited January 2012 Posts: 1,778
    BAIN123 wrote:
    We shouldn't take Connery's opinion as gospol BUT I think it is interesting nonetheless. Who's going to argue with The Big Man.

    I won't argue with Fleming.

    Connery's views on how other Bond actors approched the role is a case of 'throwing stones in glass houses'. Has he forgotten the immense enthusiasm he showed and how in shape he looked in DAF. [/sarcasm]

    I love Connery as much as the next man but I'll agree his behavior for YOLT and DAF always disappointed me. I tend not to revisit those two as much and remember him for when he still cared about the role and the films. So maybe you're right @MajorDSmyth. Maybe Connery isn't in the best position to talk about approaching thye role with integrity.


    BAIN123 wrote:
    Shoreline wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:

    I'm glad he praised brosnan, the guy deserves more praise than he gets these days (he got alot of praise when he was bond but once craig took over everybody seems to criticise him). I don't really agree with what he said on dalton but I can sort of see where he's coming from, in a way. Its good he's not afraid to critiscise the bond films, like when he talks about how he didn't like the humour, and when he talks about blofelds death (I hated the way they killed blofeld too). I love how at the end he says "I doubt they could afford me"
    This may upset the Brosnan bashers!
    Well, we hears it from the horses mouth, Brosnan is a good actor, who bought something new to the role. Ofcourse, Mr Connery is right.

    I`ll stand back now and wait for the aggro...!

    Somehow I get the impression Connery's never even seen all of Brosnan's films. He's become so divorced from the series he probably just goes on vague recolections. Just becasue Connery says Brosnan's a good actor doesn't make it so. He might just be giving him kudos because Brosnan has always publicly kissed his a$$ and that the two have a common enemy.

    Those comments were also printed in a 2002 pull out from Empire Magazine I still have. They were published some time before Brosnan's split with EON.

    Understood. Thanks for clearing that up. But I think my other points are still valid.
  • Pussfella wrote:
    I went to the screening of TLD on the south bank a couple of years back - and asked John Glen about how he thought Dalton's approach had influenced Craig - he said he thought Tim was "ahead of his time"

    What do u guys think?

    I love Tim, his Bond was a blueprint for DC no question. The rebellious, streak, the tough nut, the relentless pursuit of his duty, no matter what the cost. That's DC's Bond, isn't it?

    Saunders: I'm telling M you deliberately missed. Your orders were to kill that sniper.

    James Bond: Stuff my orders! I only kill professionals. That girl didn't know one end of a rifle from the other. Go ahead. Tell M what you want. If he fires me, I'll thank him for it.


    Get in Tim, I love it.






  • Posts: 251
    Shoreline wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:

    I'm glad he praised brosnan, the guy deserves more praise than he gets these days (he got alot of praise when he was bond but once craig took over everybody seems to criticise him). I don't really agree with what he said on dalton but I can sort of see where he's coming from, in a way. Its good he's not afraid to critiscise the bond films, like when he talks about how he didn't like the humour, and when he talks about blofelds death (I hated the way they killed blofeld too). I love how at the end he says "I doubt they could afford me"
    This may upset the Brosnan bashers!
    Well, we hears it from the horses mouth, Brosnan is a good actor, who bought something new to the role. Ofcourse, Mr Connery is right.

    I`ll stand back now and wait for the aggro...!






    Somehow I get the impression Connery's never even seen all of Brosnan's films. He's become so divorced from the series he probably just goes on vague recolections. Just becasue Connery says Brosnan's a good actor doesn't make it so. He might just be giving him kudos because Brosnan has always publicly kissed his a$$ and that the two have a common enemy.

    I think you maybe reading a little bit too much into this.
    What gives you the impression Connery hasn`t watched Brosnans Bond?
    Sounds to me like you just don`t want Connery to praise Brozzer because you dislike him....?

    Truth is, Connery said it, and Connery doesn`t pay lip service for anyone, and always gives considered answers while being interviewed.

    As regards Dalton, I am not sure he was ahead of his time... the bigger problem with him was his lack of sex appeal. Bond is and always be a sexual character. Dalton never had that covered. All moody Bond makes a dull Bond. Craig needs to be carefull of this too. Saying this, I personaly still like Craig and Dalton.
  • If Connery liked Brosnan that's fine. It's his own opinion and I'm sure Brosnan was elated to hear it as anyone would be. But I think him "bringing new layers to the character" is alot of bs and proves Connery obviosuly didn't read too far into it. What layers did he bring? What new aspects did he bring to the table that weren't already explored by the other 4 actors? I've never had this answered because Brosnan simply brought nothing. He took half of Connery and mixed it with half of Moore and gave us a boring retread more fit to be parodied than taken seriously.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    Did Connery even say all that? I can see him giving just the one interview in 2008 for the sake of it, he'd been long retired since then.
  • edited January 2012 Posts: 11,189
    If Connery liked Brosnan that's fine. It's his own opinion and I'm sure Brosnan was elated to hear it as anyone would be. But I think him "bringing new layers to the character" is alot of bs and proves Connery obviosuly didn't read too far into it. What layers did he bring? What new aspects did he bring to the table that weren't already explored by the other 4 actors? I've never had this answered because Brosnan simply brought nothing. He took half of Connery and mixed it with half of Moore and gave us a boring retread more fit to be parodied than taken seriously.

    I think one thing that makes Brosnan a bit more distinctive though is that, unlike any of the other 4 Bond actors at the time, he actually experienced real torment and suffered from a loss that was close to him. Whether you like him or not that surely adds a little bit more of a poigniancy and authenticity to the role. It may not be "new" per-say but IMO it's unique and worth noting.
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