Chat Thread - Free Discussion

thelivingroyale

I was talking more about the short term effects of drinking than the long term effects. Can't remember how many Vespers he had but have you ever made yourself one? He'd have been rat arsed by the time Vesper gets captured and still manages to sprint outside and have a car chase.

It is unrealistic sure, but I think Bond himself is an unrealistic character. And you mentioning boxers reminds me of Ricardo Mayorga. He smokes like a chinmey and did pretty well back in the day. Bond still got back into shape very unrealistically quickly in SF, he'd done nothing but lounge around on a beach drinking for months. If we can buy that his heart and sheer determination allow him to turn back into a superman capable of lengthy footchases and effortlessly taking out several armed guards in just a day or two, despite apparently being in poor shape before then, then surely we can use that justification for smoking not effecting his fitness.

Some_Kind_Of_Hero

We don't expect Bond to wear the fashions of the 1950s/60s or to not use a cell phone or to snort cocaine for the job. He changes with the times, not to accommodate the times, but to maintain the essence of who he is—to remain cool when "cool" is no longer cool.

(And no I don't think MJ, if that's what's being implied here, would be considered cool either. Some kind of gonvernment-backed, sci-fi esque, performance-enhancing designer drug, however...)

peter

There are outliers @thelivingroyale ... most smokers, will get their asses handed to them.

thelivingroyale

peter wrote: »

There are outliers @thelivingroyale ... most smokers, will get their asses handed to them.

I know, but Bond could be one of those outliers. It's not like he's at all representive of most men anyway. He's been unrealistically good at everything despite his vices from the start, it's who he is. I don't see him not smoking as a big deal but I do think it just looks cool and don't see why he shouldn't.

Some_Kind_Of_Hero wrote: »

We don't expect Bond to wear the fashions of the 1950s/60s or to not use a cell phone or to snort cocaine for the job. He changes with the times, not to accommodate the times, but to maintain the essence of who he is—to remain cool when "cool" is no longer cool.

(And no I don't think MJ, if that's what's being implied here, would be considered cool either. Some kind of gonvernment-backed, sci-fi esque, performance-enhancing designer drug, however...)

It's funny you mention the fashion because I think suit wise a lot of us would prefer something more traditional imo. The suits in Kingsman for example seem a lot more timelessly cool than Moore's bell bottoms, Brosnan's banker suits and Craig's school prom suits. And it's not like smoking is unheard of even if you can't do it indoors any more.

JamesBondKenya

The way I see it, it is very simple. Bond is a product of whatever is "cool" at the time. When smoking was cool, bond was a smoker. When smoking is no longer cool, well, what did pierce say in TND. "Filthy habit". Hence bond no longer smokes. When smoking becomes cool again, Bond will start to smoke again.

peter

Watching a man in a great suit, or tuxedo, driving in a sexy car, smoking, in the modern world, looks absurd and stupid and low class.

thelivingroyale

peter wrote: »

Watching a man in a great suit, or tuxedo, driving in a sexy car, smoking, in the modern world, looks absurd and stupid and low class.

I can tell you're very anti smoking and I quit years ago myself but it's a lot more common than you seem to think. At least here in the UK. And besides, nothing common about smoking custom blend fags from a cigarette case. And I'm working class and proud of it so might not be able to comment but I'm sure there are plenty of posh people who still smoke. I'd imagine it's quite common among Bond's sort of crowd actually, old fashioned high society types. Bet if Blades were real there'd be a smoking terrace.

peter

@JamesBondKenya , you are the most correct person re: this subject. It took a teenager to break it down for us. Well done, JamesBondKenya!

As an edit: I can guarantee: smoking will never be seen as cool again (unless as a period piece, or smoking a stogie, so as not to offend a certain character who offers one; although I see a modern Bond taking the cigar, smelling it, and saying, "nice", and moving onto the subject at hand)

MajorDSmythe

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote: »

MajorDSmythe wrote: »

Strog wrote: »

Bond's disdain for authority is throughout Brosnan's tenure as well. His initial meeting with M in GE ('You think I'm a bean counter,' etc.) is contemptuous. He ignores multiple orders in TWINE. He goes rogue in DAD. So you could say more generally that it's just been the fashion since Tim's Bond, rather than pit Tim's vs. Dan's.

As was being discussed over in the eras of Bond thread, this may simply indicate something of the 'Americanization' the franchise has undergone.

I'm not a big supporter of the Brosnan era, but I wouldn't call his Bond anti-authority either. But there is definitely something, maybe not quite animosity, between Bond and M in GE. Whatever it was, it went away before the end of the briefing. Which brings me to something that bugs me, and that is the whole "sexist, misogynist, dinosaur" nonsense. I really wish that hadn't made it into the film. He is sexist, yes, but not misogynist or a dinosaur.

People that think Bond is any of those things do need an education in how the character was written and presented from the very beginning.

It's a shame pop culture seems to lash on to terms they don't even know how to define.

He is sexist, more in some depictions than others, but like smoking, it just is a part of his character, as you said, people need to understand that. Bond saves the world time and time again, without any public acknowledgement. So the least we can do is to turn a blind eye to his sexual appetite.

I have lost count the number of times I have seen someone use ""sexist, misogynist, dinosaur" as a reason why they don't like the character. Press then on the issue, and you always discover they have seen 2, maybe 3 of the films and usually none of them GE. They have heard someone else talk about M's not entirely accurate description of Bond, and have repeated it, thinking it gives them enough grounds to launch an attack on the character.

Thunderfinger

Murdock

Thunderfinger

Thunderpussy

Bond was a man of his time. Times change, so should Bond.

fanbond123

Bond should change - hence why Craig is so popular, I guess.

bondjames

MajorDSmythe wrote: »

He is sexist, more in some depictions than others, but like smoking, it just is a part of his character, as you said, people need to understand that. Bond saves the world time and time again, without any public acknowledgement. So the least we can do is to turn a blind eye to his sexual appetite.

I have lost count the number of times I have seen someone use ""sexist, misogynist, dinosaur" as a reason why they don't like the character. Press then on the issue, and you always discover they have seen 2, maybe 3 of the films and usually none of them GE. They have heard someone else talk about M's not entirely accurate description of Bond, and have repeated it, thinking it gives them enough grounds to launch an attack on the character.

It doesn't help when the actor playing Bond confuses the word and its meaning as well:

Question from interviewer: "Speaking of women, many men admire Bond for his way with the ladies …"

Craig: "But let’s not forget that he’s actually a misogynist. A lot of women are drawn to him chiefly because he embodies a certain kind of danger and never sticks around for too long."

From a Redbulletin interview in 2015.

Thunderfinger

Dragonpol

Guaranteed to make you dead eventually too!

Thunderfinger

Dragonpol

I'll just stick to my Carbolic Smoke Ball, thanks all the same.

Thunderpussy

simple, traditional Laudanum for me.

Thunderfinger

MajorDSmythe

bondjames wrote: »

MajorDSmythe wrote: »

He is sexist, more in some depictions than others, but like smoking, it just is a part of his character, as you said, people need to understand that. Bond saves the world time and time again, without any public acknowledgement. So the least we can do is to turn a blind eye to his sexual appetite.

I have lost count the number of times I have seen someone use ""sexist, misogynist, dinosaur" as a reason why they don't like the character. Press then on the issue, and you always discover they have seen 2, maybe 3 of the films and usually none of them GE. They have heard someone else talk about M's not entirely accurate description of Bond, and have repeated it, thinking it gives them enough grounds to launch an attack on the character.

It doesn't help when the actor playing Bond confuses the word and its meaning as well:

Question from interviewer: "Speaking of women, many men admire Bond for his way with the ladies …"

Craig: "But let’s not forget that he’s actually a misogynist. A lot of women are drawn to him chiefly because he embodies a certain kind of danger and never sticks around for too long."

From a Redbulletin interview in 2015.

That is news to me. Did he really say that? That was obviously a loaded question, designed to begin a with hunt. The correct answer should have been, "yes, he is sexist, but he is also loyal, brave, resilient. He might not be perfect, but then, no one is."

bondjames

MajorDSmythe wrote: »

bondjames wrote: »

MajorDSmythe wrote: »

He is sexist, more in some depictions than others, but like smoking, it just is a part of his character, as you said, people need to understand that. Bond saves the world time and time again, without any public acknowledgement. So the least we can do is to turn a blind eye to his sexual appetite.

I have lost count the number of times I have seen someone use ""sexist, misogynist, dinosaur" as a reason why they don't like the character. Press then on the issue, and you always discover they have seen 2, maybe 3 of the films and usually none of them GE. They have heard someone else talk about M's not entirely accurate description of Bond, and have repeated it, thinking it gives them enough grounds to launch an attack on the character.

It doesn't help when the actor playing Bond confuses the word and its meaning as well:

Question from interviewer: "Speaking of women, many men admire Bond for his way with the ladies …"

Craig: "But let’s not forget that he’s actually a misogynist. A lot of women are drawn to him chiefly because he embodies a certain kind of danger and never sticks around for too long."

From a Redbulletin interview in 2015.

That is news to me. Did he really say that? That was obviously a loaded question, designed to begin a with hunt. The correct answer should have been, "yes, he is sexist, but he is also loyal, brave, resilient. He might not be perfect, but then, no one is."

Yes he said it. The interviewer didn't put the term in his mouth either. It was an interesting discussion which focused on role models and so on. He said positive things about the character too but seemed to mix up the meaning of that term and also mentioned how they have women putting him in his place these days.

https://www.redbulletin.com/us/us/culture/daniel-craig-tells-us-what-he-really-thinks-of-bond

MajorDSmythe

bondjames wrote: »

MajorDSmythe wrote: »

bondjames wrote: »

MajorDSmythe wrote: »

He is sexist, more in some depictions than others, but like smoking, it just is a part of his character, as you said, people need to understand that. Bond saves the world time and time again, without any public acknowledgement. So the least we can do is to turn a blind eye to his sexual appetite.

I have lost count the number of times I have seen someone use ""sexist, misogynist, dinosaur" as a reason why they don't like the character. Press then on the issue, and you always discover they have seen 2, maybe 3 of the films and usually none of them GE. They have heard someone else talk about M's not entirely accurate description of Bond, and have repeated it, thinking it gives them enough grounds to launch an attack on the character.

It doesn't help when the actor playing Bond confuses the word and its meaning as well:

Question from interviewer: "Speaking of women, many men admire Bond for his way with the ladies …"

Craig: "But let’s not forget that he’s actually a misogynist. A lot of women are drawn to him chiefly because he embodies a certain kind of danger and never sticks around for too long."

From a Redbulletin interview in 2015.

That is news to me. Did he really say that? That was obviously a loaded question, designed to begin a with hunt. The correct answer should have been, "yes, he is sexist, but he is also loyal, brave, resilient. He might not be perfect, but then, no one is."

Yes he said it. The interviewer didn't put the term in his mouth either. It was an interesting discussion which focused on role models and so on. He said positive things about the character too but seemed to mix up the meaning of that term and also mentioned how they have women putting him in his place these days.

Hashtag blow back averted. Good job, Daniel.

CrzChris4

Love Craig's response in that interview to the question about Bond bedding an "older woman."

Thunderfinger

Thunderfinger

I am thinking that Ma and Pa Affleck must have been huge fans of this series.

Dragonpol

Thunderpussy

Angela Barnes on Newsjack ( BBC radio 1) did a great joke about Brexit ...
" Brexit now, is like being flashed at by a stranger in the Park. You don't care if it's Hard or Soft......
.... You just want it to go away ! "

Thunderfinger