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The Living Daylights..question

gaz4007gaz4007
edited January 2012 in Bond Movies Posts: 71
HI All,my 1st time on the web site boards so please be kind...I have always wondered about the line in the living daylights which saunders says to Bond "sorry old man" which makes him mishandling the bullets into the rifle...Does anyone else think it was a link to from russia with love's Grant as he used the same line.....or was it just me.
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  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    gaz4007 wrote:
    HI All,my 1st time on the web site boards so please be kind...I have always wondered about the line in the living daylights which saunders says to Bond "sorry old man" which makes him mishandling the bullets into the rifle...Does anyone else think it was a link to from russia with love's Grant as he used the same line.....or was it just me.

    Wow, awesome observation! I had never thought of that before! That very well could be the answer, though I have no idea what the answer is if that's not it.
  • gaz4007gaz4007
    Posts: 71
    i always used to think it was just me....i read a piece on another website said someone thought the character was nervous hence the mishandling...but then mention of old man...does make you think...
  • licensetoforumlicensetoforum
    Posts: 371
    Welcome to the forums, and cool observation. I think it could of, but I always took it as a sign of Bond not changing with the times, like in Goldeneye.
  • gaz4007gaz4007
    Posts: 71
    Not changing with the times...how do you mean...? and thanks for the welcome.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    gaz4007 wrote:
    HI All,my 1st time on the web site boards so please be kind...I have always wondered about the line in the living daylights which saunders says to Bond "sorry old man" which makes him mishandling the bullets into the rifle...Does anyone else think it was a link to from russia with love's Grant as he used the same line.....or was it just me.

    I always read the "Sorry, old man" as Saunders being dismissive of Bond, but then warming up to Bond later when Bond thanks Saunders for the passports--alas, too late. Saunders is one of the better sacrificial lambs in the series, and Dalton really nails the grief afterward (helped by Barry, of course).

  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    I think it has no reference to Russia with Love whatsoever, it was just three words said that were of course mentioned in the 1963 film, I don't know what all the fuss is about, there must be loads of instances such as we have here where Bond or Bond allies or Bond adversaries said a certain something at different times and we think 'that may have been said before at some point in time'. Most likely was, but I don't think we should make connections with it, it was most likely purely coincidental
  • gaz4007gaz4007
    Posts: 71
    [I doquote="Baltimore_007"]ver, it was just three words said that were of course mentioned in the 1963 film,here where Bond n't know what all the fuss is about, there must be loads of instances such as we have or Bond allies or Bond adversaries said a certain something at different times [/quote]

    I'm not saying i def think it was i was just after others thoughts on it...yeah of course there is other words used in films but the fact it was such a direct link and the fact that Connery asked the question himself of old man i just wondered if it was another way to show Bond as in a way being haunted by past events....

    Echo..i agree i think Bond and Saunder's relationship was one of the better ones in the whole series

  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    Gaz, I've never noticed this, but if, as you say, the line is exactly the same as in FRWL, then it is highly unlikely that this is pure coincidence. The producers and writers are too well versed on the history for something like that to simply slip in by chance.
  • gaz4007gaz4007
    Posts: 71
    exact line is......."Sorry old man"
    at the old man part Bond misplaces the bulletts into the gun......

    As i say i was just my interpritation of the line but i always liked it as to me Bond was haunted...
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,264
    Indeed, welcome @gaz4007. And no, I never took it as a reference, but indeed as @echo said, Saunders beeing dismissive of Bond. It's clear he doesn't like Bond as part of the mission, but has to make do with him or Koskov wouldn't defect.
  • GetafixGetafix
    edited January 2012 Posts: 11,425
    If that's the exact same line that Red Grant uses then there is no way that it's a coincidence.

    The first part of TLD has elements that are clearly paying homage to FRWL, such as the nightime assasination scene. Therefore, I have no doubt whatsovever that this is a deliberate reference to the earlier film.
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    I think some people are reading too much into it, Yes it has vague similar references to Russia, but as said more likely than not, coincidental. Maybe if Whitaker was jabbing at Dalton with poison tipped shoes, a mad chase on a train across Afghanistan with Dalton and Koskov or whoever trying to garrotte each other (highly unlikely with the latter so maybe Necros would be better) or even having d'Abo doing some Gypsy park fighting maybe I could look further into it but last word on this I do think any sayings or above are wholly unintentional and have no ties to previous outings
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    FRWL and TLD are two of the most explicitly 'cold war' themed films in the series and the first part of TLD (in Prague?) is a definite homage to the authenticity of FRWL. Therefore, I would imagine that the writers (Richard Maibaum and Michael G. Wilson) would not have dropped such a famous line into the script, at a key moment of tension, without being fully aware of the reference and the way in which it might annoy/affect Bond.

  • connerybondconnerybond
    Posts: 163
    I agree about Maibaum and cold war link. Not coincidental.
  • gaz4007gaz4007
    Posts: 71
    Has no one else noticed this before....
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    I always thought it was just to underline the nature of Saunders' character. He's the antithesis of Bond in his by the book approach and I always viewed that line as a reference to his rather staid old fashioned approach. That being said I think your thought is still valid.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    I always thought 'old man' was a common expression in the english language.....
  • gaz4007gaz4007
    Posts: 71
    mmmm not so much lol
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    I always thought 'old man' was a common expression in the english language.....

    It's use as shorthand here to emphasise that the character is a bit stiff - in an old-fashioned, buttoned-up British sort of way. Bond symbolises a more modern, agile type of man. Plus, you don't imagine Bond liking being addressed in such a faux-familiar kind of way.
  • gaz4007gaz4007
    Posts: 71
    true but i don't think saunders ment it that way...
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    Saunders I think is supposed to be totally unaware of the significance. He was not present in FRWL and does not know Bond really. The words are totally meaningless to him, but have a deeper resonance for Bond.
  • gaz4007gaz4007
    Posts: 71
    yeah that was what i thought...i knew saunders knew nothing about the phrase but to me the use of it reminded Bond of Grant..at least that is how i viewed it...
  • gaz4007gaz4007
    Posts: 71
    thanks for your comments
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Thats a very intelligent observation there,and one i confess i havent noticed before.There is no real reason for them to pay homage to to FRWL in that scene but it's a possibility.
  • gaz4007gaz4007
    Posts: 71
    my version of it was as Dalton was a new Bond they/he wanted to move away from the"superman" image of Bond and show that he is indeed haunted by previous events...plus like Moore laying flowers on tracey's grave it is a nice link to the characters history
  • gaz4007gaz4007
    Posts: 71
    what do u think
  • OHMSS69OHMSS69
    Posts: 2,341
    Getafix wrote:
    Gaz, I've never noticed this, but if, as you say, the line is exactly the same as in FRWL, then it is highly unlikely that this is pure coincidence. The producers and writers are too well versed on the history for something like that to simply slip in by chance.
    gaz4007 wrote:
    exact line is......."Sorry old man"
    at the old man part Bond misplaces the bulletts into the gun......

    As i say i was just my interpritation of the line but i always liked it as to me Bond was haunted...

    DAMN! I totally missed it. I feel both of you and I think you are spot on. It makes such freaking sense! Of course a stroke of genius on the part of Maibaum and Mikey and I have to welcome gaz4007 to the chat room and pay a compliment for being so insightful. You off to a great start Man!
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    gaz4007 wrote:
    my version of it was as Dalton was a new Bond they/he wanted to move away from the"superman" image of Bond and show that he is indeed haunted by previous events...plus like Moore laying flowers on tracey's grave it is a nice link to the characters history

    I agree with you on that. Two good examples of this are in LTK, when Della throws her garter to Bond, and he becomes suddenly sad, and she has no idea why, to which Felix explains the whole Tracy ordeal. Then, to back up your Superman claim, after Bond has defeated Sanchez, he takes a moment to rest and we can see he strain and stress that this particular mission has had on him, literally written on his face, what with the blood and scratches and all.
  • gaz4007gaz4007
    Posts: 71
    , after Bond has defeated Sanchez, he takes a moment to rest and we can see he strain and stress that this particular mission has had on him, literally written on his face, what with the blood and scratches and all.
    [/quote]

    I loved that moment in LTK something we hadn't really seen before... tired and bruised Bond....
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited February 2012 Posts: 4,399
    people.... your thinking way too much into this one....

    yes, the line "old man" was used a lot by Grant in FRWL - but i dont recall him ever saying "sorry old man."

    but when Saunders says "sorry old man.." - it's a set up for Bond to use his own snide remark back at him when he takes Koskov to a better escape route... i see no, nor have felt there is connection or "paying homage" to FRWL with that line... it's just a line.
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