Timothy Dalton's Fisticuffs

2

Comments

  • edited March 2017 Posts: 489
    That bar fight in LTK is pretty awful and poorly staged.

    The strengths of the Dalton films are his acting, he's clearly the best actor of the Bond leads, and strong stories.

    Weaknesses are the generically-staged camera setups, and the lack of sex and violence.
  • edited March 2017 Posts: 11,189
    That bar fight in LTK is pretty awful and poorly staged.

    Dalton's punches are definitely the best thing about it.

  • edited March 2017 Posts: 6,844
    Tim and Rog have definitely been the lightest-weight fighters. (Which is ironic for Rog because his Bond faced some of the biggest, baddest, most dangerous heavies of them all—Tee Hee, Baron Samedi, Jaws multiple times, May Day in the sack.) I think Roger's best fight, that is the one where he himself is the most impressive physically, is versus Chula in Golden Gun. Whoever choreographed/filmed that fight did good work with Rog.

    Dalton occasionally impressed with a solid punch or kick, but he did have a very thin and light figure. I think he could have done with a few more opportunities for hand-to-hand combat. Battling the Smiert Spionam assassin in the jeep in TLD was good, as was his physicality with Sanchez on the tanker. He also had some fine moments in the Barrelhead brawl. But the way they staged things with Dalton didn't give him a whole lot of opportunity to show off. The Necros fight on the cargo net for instance was an impressive sequence, but it was more staged around clinging on for dear life than in mutual brutalization.
  • That was a helluva good fight. Definitely the best fight out of any of Glen's films.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,434
    The best fight in TLD was the safe house fight between Necros and the guard from the safe house. The burn on the oven still makes me grimace.

    This is the problem with the Dalton Bond films not enough physicality. Thank God the magic carpet hit the cutting room floor.
  • I think Dalton could've done with a few more good scenes. The thing with his Bond was that he didn't need to be physical in order to convince somebody that he could kick their ass, he was intense. That's where I think his Bond sort of differs from the others, while all of them could be deadly and ruthless when needed, Dalton had a very intense look to him, enough to unsettle somebody at times.
  • edited September 2017 Posts: 19,339
    Same here...even in the LTK bar brawl he was mainly using items around him to hit people..almost like he had an aversion to punching.

    I've never known 2 Bond films with hardly any punches in it from Bond,apart from the Daltons.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    The man was good with headbutts, though. :)

    But yeah, there weren't any memorable fisticuffs with Dalton.
  • Posts: 19,339
    hahaha good point..i think he headbutted equally as much as he punched,which is impressive in its own way.
    I love the way he headbutts Dario in the lab,that is such a tense scene in LTK.
  • Posts: 11,189
    suavejmf wrote: »
    I can't see Dalton picking up a chair and throwing it at someone ala Sean to be honest.

    Exactly. Sean, Laz and Craig (and Fleming's Bond) could all fight dirty. You could see them sneaking up on their opponent from behind. Not sure I really "got" that vibe from any of the others.
  • Posts: 19,339
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    I can't see Dalton picking up a chair and throwing it at someone ala Sean to be honest.

    Exactly. Sean, Laz and Craig (and Fleming's Bond) could all fight dirty. You could see them sneaking up on their opponent from behind. Not sure I really "got" that vibe from any of the others.

    Brosnan does sneak up on the guard on the stealth boat in TND,and just plunges a knife right into his heart from behind,thats a good moment.
    He then uses the body to impersonate himself and once its been shot up,throws it into the sea.

    Thats pretty Bondian to me.
    But Dalton or Moore,no not at all.
  • edited September 2017 Posts: 11,189
    Looking back at my earlier comment in this thread did remind me of the moment he shoved the pilot out of the seaplane in LTK. The closest we got to Dalton fighting dirty.

    Still, he's not really someone I could see participating in an all out brawl like Sean, Craig and Laz.

    The bar fight in LTK is kind of naff and you can tell Dalton is uncomfortable with the "touche" line. I do like his punches though.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    suavejmf wrote: »
    I can't see Dalton picking up a chair and throwing it at someone ala Sean to be honest.

    I could. Dalton:Bond had more of an "anything goes" attitude rather than fighting like a gentleman. His best fight (and the best fight of his era), is the Bond vs Necros fight. Both in the context of the film, and the filming of the fight. Unfortunately, Dalton got very little chance to have a full on brawl.
  • Posts: 19,339
    suavejmf wrote: »
    I can't see Dalton picking up a chair and throwing it at someone ala Sean to be honest.

    I could. Dalton:Bond had more of an "anything goes" attitude rather than fighting like a gentleman. His best fight (and the best fight of his era), is the Bond vs Necros fight. Both in the context of the film, and the filming of the fight. Unfortunately, Dalton got very little chance to have a full on brawl.

    I could be wrong but doesnt he whack a trucker/drinker with a chair in the bar room fight ? ..i cant recall,precisely.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    In fairness, Moore is the most frequent user of the environment in his fights, with only Sean coming close. I think it's partly (if not entirely) down to his portrayal of Bond, who is less of a brawler and someone who relies on his intelligence to win instead. Which is why he uses the environment in some way to beat pretty much of all his major enemies, and even some not so major (Tee-Hee, the thugs in TWMTGG, Jaws repeatedly, Chang, Kriegler, several of the yo-yo assassins, Max Zorin, etc.) For the other Bonds it's probably a combination of raw dirty fighting and intelligence.

    To Dalton's credit he used his surroundings decently well in the TLD prison fight. And in relation to sheer fisticuff talent, he did pretty well when he was swarmed underwater in LTK.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited September 2017 Posts: 13,978
    barryt007 wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    I can't see Dalton picking up a chair and throwing it at someone ala Sean to be honest.

    I could. Dalton:Bond had more of an "anything goes" attitude rather than fighting like a gentleman. His best fight (and the best fight of his era), is the Bond vs Necros fight. Both in the context of the film, and the filming of the fight. Unfortunately, Dalton got very little chance to have a full on brawl.

    I could be wrong but doesnt he whack a trucker/drinker with a chair in the bar room fight ? ..i cant recall,precisely.

    When the guy with the Swordfish runs at Bond, Bond grabs a chair, but he doesn't get to use it. He does get to use a chair as a weapon in TLD, when he is fighting the jailer.
  • Posts: 19,339
    barryt007 wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    I can't see Dalton picking up a chair and throwing it at someone ala Sean to be honest.

    I could. Dalton:Bond had more of an "anything goes" attitude rather than fighting like a gentleman. His best fight (and the best fight of his era), is the Bond vs Necros fight. Both in the context of the film, and the filming of the fight. Unfortunately, Dalton got very little chance to have a full on brawl.

    I could be wrong but doesnt he whack a trucker/drinker with a chair in the bar room fight ? ..i cant recall,precisely.

    When the guy with the Swordfish runs at Bond, Bond grabs a chair, but he doesn't get to use it. He does get to use a chair as a weapon in TLD, when he is fighting the jailer.

    Aaah it was the jailor....i knew he did somewhere...oh to be old and the braincells worn away by women,drink,and football.
    (Me not Dalton ;) )
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    barryt007 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    I can't see Dalton picking up a chair and throwing it at someone ala Sean to be honest.

    I could. Dalton:Bond had more of an "anything goes" attitude rather than fighting like a gentleman. His best fight (and the best fight of his era), is the Bond vs Necros fight. Both in the context of the film, and the filming of the fight. Unfortunately, Dalton got very little chance to have a full on brawl.

    I could be wrong but doesnt he whack a trucker/drinker with a chair in the bar room fight ? ..i cant recall,precisely.

    When the guy with the Swordfish runs at Bond, Bond grabs a chair, but he doesn't get to use it. He does get to use a chair as a weapon in TLD, when he is fighting the jailer.

    Aaah it was the jailor....i knew he did somewhere...oh to be old and the braincells worn away by women,drink,and football.
    (Me not Dalton ;) )

    Except for the football, that's not a bad way to go.

    oliver-reed-gal-431_jpg.jpeg

    Oliver Reed approves.
  • Posts: 19,339
    barryt007 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    I can't see Dalton picking up a chair and throwing it at someone ala Sean to be honest.

    I could. Dalton:Bond had more of an "anything goes" attitude rather than fighting like a gentleman. His best fight (and the best fight of his era), is the Bond vs Necros fight. Both in the context of the film, and the filming of the fight. Unfortunately, Dalton got very little chance to have a full on brawl.

    I could be wrong but doesnt he whack a trucker/drinker with a chair in the bar room fight ? ..i cant recall,precisely.

    When the guy with the Swordfish runs at Bond, Bond grabs a chair, but he doesn't get to use it. He does get to use a chair as a weapon in TLD, when he is fighting the jailer.

    Aaah it was the jailor....i knew he did somewhere...oh to be old and the braincells worn away by women,drink,and football.
    (Me not Dalton ;) )

    Except for the football, that's not a bad way to go.

    oliver-reed-gal-431_jpg.jpeg

    Oliver Reed approves.

    Aaah the Bond that never was....if Reedy approves im a happy bunny,Major !
  • edited September 2017 Posts: 11,189
    The full bar fight.


    Regarding the fight itself, I don't think Dalton comes off too badly - other than perhaps the moment when the fish smashes through the chair.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited September 2017 Posts: 13,978
    I have a confession to make, I don't... well I don't hate the fight, but it borders on being cheesy.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I have a confession to make, I don't... well I don't hate the fight, but it borders being cheesy.

    It's...very cheesy ;)
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I have a confession to make, I don't... well I don't hate the fight, but it borders being cheesy.

    It's...very cheesy ;)

    I wouldn't go that far, but bar room brawls should remain where they being, old school Westerns.
  • edited September 2017 Posts: 11,189
    I think the bar room brawl was a bit of a thing during the 80s and 90s in action movies. Raw Deal had one if I remember.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    ugh terrible in every way. It's not funny. It's not exciting. It doesn't look real, at all. It does, however, take me out of the film.
  • I never had a problem with Dalton's fight scenes. I think it adds to how real his Bond felt. In all his action scenes you get the sense that he's hanging on by the skin of his teeth which to me is realistic because being highly trained doesn't mean you're going to be a Bourne esque killing machine. You're still going to struggle and seeing Bond actually struggle but come out on top anyway adds to how badass he is imo. My favourite is probably the TLD jail scrap (if we're not counting the cargo net scene). It sounds like nothing, a trained special forces guy against a fat jailer, but Dalton still makes it seem like he's genuinely fighting for his life while at the same time never coming across as weak or diminishing Bond's abilities.

    I think Craig is very good in the fight scenes but in most of them he seems too tough. He bleeds but nothing really seems to affect him (I'd say the Hinx fight and a couple of the CR ones are the exceptions). That's why I think Lazenby was the best in the fight scenes. Just as human as Dalton and just as badass and intense as Craig. The full package. Connery did that too, he was really physical but still sold the danger, but I think how larger than life and effortlessly cool he was meant that he didn't seem quite as human as Dalton and Lazenby. Moore had a couple of decent ones but lets be real you don't watch a Roger Moore Bond for the fight scenes. He was a lover not a fighter. Brosnan was okay but I think the direction/coreography let him down, the fight scenes in GE were great, the rest not so much.
  • edited September 2017 Posts: 11,189
    The fight with the jailer in TLD feels very clunky in the way its edited together I think

  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    I do like the TLD fight scene, but feel it's Barry's music that elevates it; however, Dalton does sell it nicely in it.
  • edited September 2017 Posts: 11,189
    It's definitely not the worst fight scene, but I do think it feels a bit choreographed.

    I agree that the Barry music helps a bit.
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    edited September 2017 Posts: 1,053
    Pre fight but, in the Barrelhead where Dario's henchman, who sits with him at the table to try and stare Bond out, looked a very menacing character (he would have certainly un-nerved me!), he doesn't faze 007. I just thought that was a neat build up to what we knew was going to happen next.
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