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It's 1980 and Moore looks like he is not coming back...who would you like for the role.........

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  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    FYEO feels a lot like a Dalton movie. A lot.
    Having said that, I wouldn't want to miss OP with Moore.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,125
    But AVTAK could easily have sunk the debut of a Bond actor.
  • stun_harvestingstun_harvesting
    Posts: 337
    @bondjames - Agreed, although AVTAK is a guilty pleasure of mine. That being said, Moore was certainly too old by that point and an actor change was needed. Honestly, they only needed to bring Moore back for OP when they heard about Connery's return in NSNA. AVTAK was really just the same thing done over again with a much older Moore. Moore seemed like he aged a decade between OP and AVTAK, and he seemed like he had aged nearly twenty years between LALD and AVTAK.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I agree @stun_harvesting. There is something very familiar about AVTAK, perhaps too familiar, whether it be Barry's soundtrack, the GF comparisons, or the OP aspects. I feel a sense of 'going through the motions' with that film, and not particularly well either.

    OP seems very fresh in comparison, as does FYEO. As you note, I think Moore was needed for EON to fend off the challenge posed by McClory & Connery, but then Moore should have probably moved on.

    I can imagine how difficult it was for him to hang it up though, as I he always seemed to enjoy being Bond, despite the gamesmanship re: salary.
  • stun_harvestingstun_harvesting
    edited April 2016 Posts: 337
    @bondjames - The plot is heavily based off GF, the score is heavily based off OP at some points, even the stunts are somewhat recycled (the Eiffel Tower jump is really just a less impressive version of the ski jump in TSWLM). It just feels a bit... lazy, but as you said, it feels (warmly) familiar, which is why I manage to enjoy it. And perhaps it's the fact that it mixes elements of other Bond films that makes it so rewatchable for me. I know it's a guilty pleasure (as opposed to TMWTGG, which I can't decide whether it's a guilty pleasure of a genuinely good movie) because I can't bring myself to say that it's good, but I can bring myself to watch it over and over.

    OP is very entertaining, if flawed. But it's that sort of flowing, energetic and adventurous experience that you expect to see from Moore, and the stunts there are consistently very good - OP may well have the best stunts of the Moore films on average. I know I'm one of the few people who finds FYEO to be Moore's worst, though. In my opinion, it just tries to find the middle ground between Moore's Bond and more serious ones, when that just doesn't exist. It doesn't have the sheer balls of Moore's more outrageous entries, but it's hardly sensible and rooted in our world like Casino Royale.

    From what I could tell, they signed Moore on for two more because they wanted to put a nail in the coffin to McClory's dreams, but I suppose they couldn't predict just how aged he'd look in AVTAK.
  • OHMSS69OHMSS69
    Posts: 2,341
    The only man who deserved FYEO:
    TIMOTHY DALTON
  • OHMSS69OHMSS69
    Posts: 2,341
    The only man who deserved FYEO:
    TIMOTHY DALTON
  • IncompetentHenchmanIncompetentHenchman
    Posts: 1,817
    stun_harvesting wrote: »
    @bondjames - The plot is heavily based off GF, the score is heavily based off OP at some points, even the stunts are somewhat recycled (the Eiffel Tower jump is really just a less impressive version of the ski jump in TSWLM). It just feels a bit... lazy, but as you said, it feels (warmly) familiar, which is why I manage to enjoy it. And perhaps it's the fact that it mixes elements of other Bond films that makes it so rewatchable for me. I know it's a guilty pleasure (as opposed to TMWTGG, which I can't decide whether it's a guilty pleasure of a genuinely good movie) because I can't bring myself to say that it's good, but I can bring myself to watch it over and over.

    OP is very entertaining, if flawed. But it's that sort of flowing, energetic and adventurous experience that you expect to see from Moore, and the stunts there are consistently very good - OP may well have the best stunts of the Moore films on average. I know I'm one of the few people who finds FYEO to be Moore's worst, though. In my opinion, it just tries to find the middle ground between Moore's Bond and more serious ones, when that just doesn't exist. It doesn't have the sheer balls of Moore's more outrageous entries, but it's hardly sensible and rooted in our world like Casino Royale.

    From what I could tell, they signed Moore on for two more because they wanted to put a nail in the coffin to McClory's dreams, but I suppose they couldn't predict just how aged he'd look in AVTAK.

    Overall, AVTAK just feels like something tired, churned out by people who weren't really enthusiastic about making something new, creative or classic.

    Which is weird actually because some parts do feel new or at least somewhat intuitive. The elevator and city hall sequence, the mine sequence, the car in the lake, the steeplechase and of course the Golden Gate bridge fight. All of those things were to an extent something creative. But these are just dim sparkles.

    The focus on horses is aborted halfway through and it speaks to me of lazy storytelling.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    The whole point of the horses was to show what a cheater Zorin was. But abandoning it in favor of a GF rehash is understandably frustrating for some.
  • IncompetentHenchmanIncompetentHenchman
    Posts: 1,817
    ForYourEyesOnly wrote: »
    The whole point of the horses was to show what a cheater Zorin was. But abandoning it in favor of a GF rehash is understandably frustrating for some.

    Yes, investing so much time into that just to show a character trait doesn't speak well of natural plot progression when the arc is dropped. If we just have 'does anyone else wanna drop out?' to start off with then we've established Zorin's character and haven't really lost much in the wider scope of things.
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