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What defines the screen Bond and where did it all go wrong?
My theory is that the rot set in decades ago, and the really good movies have become ever less frequent since OHMSS. However, you can watch pretty much any of the films up until TLD and it looks and 'feels' like a Bond movie. Then, with LTK they introduced the whole 'Bond goes rogue' and 'Bond is out for revenge' angle. I am not saying LTK is necessarily a bad film, but Bond's behaviour is sometimes out of character and this (for me) was a little taste of what was to come in the 90s. I am thinking in particular of when Bond 'escapes' from M near the beginning and starts his first 'going rogue' episode. The idea of this level of insubordination and the way in which he gets away just seems totally un-Bondian. It's a relatively small detail but I cannot help but see it as the beginning of something going wrong.
For me the casting of Brosnan was a big mistake but I cannot lay the blame for everything that went wrong on Brozza. With GE, they seemed to lose sight almost completely of what defines Bond as opposed to any run of the mill action hero. He grunts and groans, makes everything he does look laborious and 'painful'. Putting him in a BMW was also a total disaster. Seriously, would Bond ever have driven a BMW? He would have left MI6 before being seen dead in a Z3.
Any way, it was a big relief when Craig arrived and instilled a touch of gravitas and believability back into the role. But is Craig the real deal? I'm not convinced yet. He looks the part, but does he need to wear all the emotional baggage quite so obviously? Hopefully in Skyfall they will allow Craig to mature into the cold but charming character that we all love.
For me the casting of Brosnan was a big mistake but I cannot lay the blame for everything that went wrong on Brozza. With GE, they seemed to lose sight almost completely of what defines Bond as opposed to any run of the mill action hero. He grunts and groans, makes everything he does look laborious and 'painful'. Putting him in a BMW was also a total disaster. Seriously, would Bond ever have driven a BMW? He would have left MI6 before being seen dead in a Z3.
Any way, it was a big relief when Craig arrived and instilled a touch of gravitas and believability back into the role. But is Craig the real deal? I'm not convinced yet. He looks the part, but does he need to wear all the emotional baggage quite so obviously? Hopefully in Skyfall they will allow Craig to mature into the cold but charming character that we all love.
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Comments
(Evidence:
Skyfall will be either the ressurection of Bond or The Death of Bond...time will tell...
LTK was also a rather generic action film btw. It had all the hallmarks - the revenge plot, the 80s characters and the cheesey song.
I think you love Brosnan secretly considering the number of times you bitch about him.
What have the games got to do with screen Bond...?
Any way, intrigued by the idea that the rot set in with CR. It would take some better arguments to convince me this was where the problems started though.
I too winced at QoS's all too obvious copying/'borrowing' from Bourne. Pretty tragic.
My original post makes the point that IMO the problems started with LTK.
Seriously, you liked the Z3? Are you from the UK or elsewhere? May be you have to be British to feel the pain of seeing Bond driving a German hairdressers' car.
Oh well. I'm guessing you're one of the younger generation that isn't bothered by this stuff. I suppose it's a sign of what Britain has become - less bigoted perhaps but also less important. However, if they'd done anything like that in the 60s there would have been riots in the cinemas.
Its a bitter shame, he isn't jumping on your bandwagon, right? There are people, who move on, you know? You are stuck in the past like an old man, which i suppose, you are not. Get a grip, man...
It was just all part of a general drift towards blandness during the Brosnan era in particular. Fortunately that particular problem came to an end with DUD, although they created an entirely new one when they the Aston invisible...
I don't really understand all the touchiness. You both seem to be getting extremely aggressive about something which is, ultimately, rather unimportant...
You are right about that, it is umimportant, but I guess, its the whole negativity thrown around by some, that makes it rather unpleasant.
In YOUR opinion.
I'm not saying he's the best Bond but he is MY Bond. I'm going to defend him if it kills me.
You don't like him, that's fine. But what if someone started an anti-dalton thread or an anti-Moore thread?
Totally fair enough and that is why threads like this keep on rolling on and on. Because some people love Brozza and others don't. Any way, actually my original post was about more than Brozza, but that seems to have been side-tracked by a load of Brozza-lovers piling on here and going on about he amazing he was...
And some people accuse me of having a Broz fixation.
I don't think everything about the franchise as it is now is wrong, but I agree that post-LTK there was a certain drop in quality, as it feels the films from that point on are more pastiche - copies of what went before - rather than having their own unique life. CR and QOS have started to get back on track.
I guess if you want to seek the cause(s) its stuff like:
Totally changed media landscape (including much greater competition from other big 'event' films in the broad category of 'action')
Increasingly generally dumbed-down, yet highly visually-sophisticated population
Increased influence of women's tastes on big budget films
Growth of political correctness
etc.
I preferred the aston martins but I thought the bmw was fine too. And I'm also british.
But on topic now, I think things went wrong during DAD, got back on track with CR, and went REALLY wrong with QOS. I thought LTK was brilliant, it my favourite bond film, so I wouldn't say thats when the problems started.
I don't consider it as even close to the worst of the series, but it certainly went wrong, but the good about that is, that they didn't intend it the way it turned out - a lot was due to the writers strike - so, one can assume, that the film could have been a whole lot better, had theya had their way. Which again leads to the suggestion, that now, with all their stuff together, SF has every chance to become a great Bond film.
I don't think anything went wrong. Bond has had to redefine himself to keep up with the times. My love of Bond dates back to the 60's and back then everything was so new and fresh. Big action films were rare back then and Bond was the trendsitter. Now Bond has had to follow the trends to avoid becoming stale and dated.
Things took the turn beginning with DAF. EON decided to have fun with the Bond image and follow the latest trends. We had LALD with the blaxploitation themes, TMWTGG cashing in on the Kung Fu popularity, MR going for the Star Wars look and feel...lTK with the Miami Vice and drug wars of the 80's. Now Craig's films resemble Bourne movies.
We see EON actually recycling earlier material...TSWLM and MR are virtually the same movie and borrowed from YOLT, AVTAK is a re working of GF and so on.
Bond has always managed to retain some of the Bond elements and continue to move on along.
The irony is that the script for LTK was also hampered by a writers' strike.
LTK is very much a product of its time. Back then, it was all about Miami Vice, Manuel Noriega, and Lethal Weapon (rogue policemen, increased violence).
The last two efforts were very successful and Skyfall is one of the most anticipated film of 2012 after The Hobbit.
What you actually mean is you don't like where the films are going?
Dont worry. The Bond films are transient. You dont like one then another one you do like will pop up eventually. The Bond films are constantly changing and evolving. I didnt like the Brosnan era then Craig came along. And there will be someone after him. And someone after that.
Of course if you think there has been a run of bad films in your opinion and you dont have any hope for the future. Then maybe its time to go....
I like LTK but it is a bit generic in some respects. It looks dirtier and nastier. There's a reason some people compare it to Miami Vice.
Most anticipated is subjective at best.
While I am a big 007 fan I do not anticipate anything when it gets to Bond23, I'll go and watch it but have not gotten my hopes up to much.
Looking forward to the New Ridley Scott movie, the new Josh Whedon and the new Peter Jackson.
So you have made your mind up already? Without seeing it?
The cinematic Bond isn't and never has been Fleming's Bond and wouldn't have lasted very long if it ever were...
Are you serious?
What about the Ford Craig drives in CR? Come on, you`ll have to do better than that....
As St George rightly points out, cinematic Bond and Fleming Bond are two VERY different kettles of fish.
Back on topic, I feel the powers that be dropped the ball with OHMSS, DAF, and QOS...
Oddities in the series for me.