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Bond/Vesper 2006 relationship - was it convincing?

BAIN123BAIN123
edited February 2012 in Bond Movies Posts: 11,189
I've heard several opinions on this and would like to know your thoughts. Did you find the romance between Craig and Eva effective or could it have been better handeled?
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Comments

  • LeChiffreLeChiffre
    Posts: 1,548
    It was perfect IMO and very well acted despite whatever the few anti-Craigers might say!
  • GermanladyGermanlady
    edited February 2012 Posts: 6,601
    If you just go by the amount of fanvids on YT about them, people loved the pair.
    The development of their relation was done rather nicely IMO, from quarells to love...also, I thought, that Vesper came over as being really smart, which wasnt always the case, when they seemed just eye candy, who were given some clever lines to make it less obvious. Vesper was believable, which again made it believable, that a man like Bond could fall in love with her. What I liked about her was, that she was smart and independant, but in a womanly way. She still got scared by violence, she wasn't the great fighter, she had enough about her for a man to be a man and not finding his equal in a womans body. So yes, I think, it worked fine.

    They even made those cringe worthy little finger lines work somehow - due to their great acting.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    "They even made those cringe worthy little finger lines work somehow - due to their great acting"

    That was really what I was referring to. That line seems to divide people somewhat.
  • GermanladyGermanlady
    Posts: 6,601
    BAIN123 wrote:
    "They even made those cringe worthy little finger lines work somehow - due to their great acting"

    That was really what I was referring to. That line seems to divide people somewhat.

    Yeah, I know, but however that might be, the little finger quote did stick, like a beloved, annoying detail..I think, it was one of those things, that were so ***, that you start to love BECAUSE they are really so sick.
  • JR_747JR_747
    Posts: 192
    It was Bond's first ever relationship that was really convincing! The only Bond girl that was a "partner" to Bond in terms of being equal. It was not the first time Bond was serious with a girl, but when you look back at Tracy, she was nothing more but a regular Bond girl he happened to marry eventually. There was no depths to their relationsship. In that respect Vesper was a first.
    Any time I watch CR I just enjoy the way they are together, there a really some good lines and really good acting!
    But the thing about the little finger is NONE of them! IMO one of the weakest moments of the film! I never found it convincing that Vesper strated to cry all from a sudden - and then that line! No, but apart from that scene I think their relationship was really well sketched!
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    I must admit the end of CR doesn't match the end of OHMSS in terms of sheer sadness (IMHO).
  • JR_747JR_747
    Posts: 192
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I must admit the end of CR doesn't match the end of OHMSS in terms of sheer sadness (IMHO).
    You are right, Bond's behaviour after Vespers death seems to put their relationship into a different perspective with hindsight and let's us leave the cinema happy anyways. That was not the case with OHMSS.

    But looking at the relationships itself during the movies rather than how they ended, what do you think?

  • GermanladyGermanlady
    Posts: 6,601
    I think, his bitching at her showed, how deeply he was affected actually.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited February 2012 Posts: 4,538
    No. The weakest point of the movie. This is one of the biggest reasen's why i don't like the movie, but i also don't like Eva Green her playing. Also the Solange chacter not confincing.

    There be some delete scene's from a sea scene, i have liked to see those.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Germanlady wrote:
    I think, his bitching at her showed, how deeply he was affected actually.

    Yes I agree. And I think they were great together, really good acting; I was happy they chose Eva to be Vesper. I think it was believable and right for this film.
  • JR_747JR_747
    Posts: 192
    Germanlady wrote:
    I think, his bitching at her showed, how deeply he was affected actually.
    I agree!
    I have the feeling that CR's ending gives you the choice how to feel: you can feel sheer sadness or disbelieve (first time I didn't believe she was really dead - that was nothing I had expected!) or you can "feel with Bond" in the sense that you can adopt the point of view Bond is trying to take: straighten up, she was a b**** anyway, have to go on with the mission - "the name's Bond, James Bond!"

  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    True. I think parts of the romance work and parts dont. The early scenes with them in the train and in the car are sweet but I'm not sure her death is as devestating as it could/should have been. I don't know if we got to 'know' Vesper in the way we did with Tracy. Still, it's many steps up from Paris Carver.
  • JR_747JR_747
    edited February 2012 Posts: 192
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I don't know if we got to 'know' Vesper in the way we did with Tracy.
    Good point! After all Bond did neither, obviously! That must be one of the most painfull things about it. And we share his feeling, being left behind a bit helpless, thinking "who was this woman, after all - what was this relationship, was it true love, was it convincing?"
    And that's something great about CR, isn't it?

  • 002002
    Posts: 581
    well i thought it seemed very odd especially near the end how she is in love with him
    "You can have me anywhere" it just didnt seem normal how she started off by loathing him and then by the end wanted him but the relationship seemed more real than the Tracy relationship which if Bond really loved Tracy he wouldnt have slept with the various other "Angels of Death"

    but i would say that the vesper/craig bond was the second best relationship behind Octopussy and Rogers Bond
  • jackdaggerjackdagger
    Posts: 498
    002 wrote:
    well i thought it seemed very odd especially near the end how she is in love with him
    "You can have me anywhere" it just didnt seem normal how she started off by loathing him and then by the end wanted him

    The feeling I got was that she felt bad for betraying him and slept with him out of guilt. I never thought she cared for him as much as she let on (I think it was the same way in the book too, if I'm not mistaken?)

    I love CR, but the whole Vesper/Bond thing brings it down for me. I don't like Vesper, and I think she's one of my least favorite Bond girls. The conversation with Bond in Lake Como was nauseating- the "little finger" quip made me laugh, but the "armor" bit was just terrible. It didn't sound like something Bond would EVER say, unless he was trying out a new pickup line.

  • actonsteveactonsteve
    Posts: 1,492
    It vies with Sean and Daniela, Tim and Maryam and Laz and Diana for the best pairing in the series history.

    Its intereting watching the thaw. The verbal sparring with each other showed them to be interllectual equals plus both had hangups about their upbringing. The cracks happen after she witnesses him kill Obamo in cold blood. Her breakdown brings out an unforeseen tender side to him as he embraces her in the shower.

    They then go through kidnap/torture together but it is him who gets the brunt of it and during recovery he starts to fall for her. The key to Vesper is that she keeps her feelings hidden. Babs Broccoli says she is like the Sphinx, an enigma but she does let the facade slip with the "little finger" and reveals, much to her suprise, that she does love him.

    This triggers the last part where she has to go through with an agreement with Quantum she made to save his life. But screwed up that she is cant come to terms with it - and takes her own life.

    The fact is the original pact was to free Yusef, but she changed it to free up Bond - as she now loved him. She was one screwed up girly.
  • thelordflasheartthelordflasheart
    Posts: 1,370
    actonsteve wrote:
    It vies with Sean and Daniela, Tim and Maryam and Laz and Diana for the best pairing in the series history.

    Its intereting watching the thaw. The verbal sparring with each other showed them to be interllectual equals plus both had hangups about their upbringing. The cracks happen after she witnesses him kill Obamo in cold blood. Her breakdown brings out an unforeseen tender side to him as he embraces her in the shower.

    They then go through kidnap/torture together but it is him who gets the brunt of it and during recovery he starts to fall for her. The key to Vesper is that she keeps her feelings hidden. Babs Broccoli says she is like the Sphinx, an enigma but she does let the facade slip with the "little finger" and reveals, much to her suprise, that she does love him.

    This triggers the last part where she has to go through with an agreement with Quantum she made to save his life. But screwed up that she is cant come to terms with it - and takes her own life.

    The fact is the original pact was to free Yusef, but she changed it to free up Bond - as she now loved him. She was one screwed up girly.

    Agreed completely, and also with GermanLady's first post. Great, complex character which makes watching the film a second (and third, and fourth) time really rewarding. And casting Greene was a fantastic choice - she brought much more to the character than a lot of actresses would.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    I enjoyed the relationship between Vesper and Bond, they work well together within the story and have never viewed there relationship in a negative fashion.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,356
    I thought it was very rushed. I would have cut out some of the action to spend more time on building their relationship. It doesn't help some of the dialogue is horrid either.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 14,003
    No, I don't think it was convincing, there was no chemistry there whatsoever. And the dialogue? :-& Easily one of the worst pairings in the cannon.
  • actonsteveactonsteve
    Posts: 1,492
    MajorDSmythe wrote:
    No, I don't think it was convincing, there was no chemistry there whatsoever. And the dialogue? :-& Easily one of the worst pairings in the cannon.

    No chemistry? Really? On the beach scene they burn the screen up and what about the drags her in from the rain for a snog?

    If you really want zero chemistry look at Brosnan and Yeoh, Brosnan and Richards and Brosnan and Berry...

  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 14,003
    actonsteve wrote:
    MajorDSmythe wrote:
    No, I don't think it was convincing, there was no chemistry there whatsoever. And the dialogue? :-& Easily one of the worst pairings in the cannon.

    No chemistry? Really? On the beach scene they burn the screen up and what about the drags her in from the rain for a snog?

    If you really want zero chemistry look at Brosnan and Yeoh, Brosnan and Richards and Brosnan and Berry...


    I agree with you on Brosnan, just my opinion Brosnan fans, but Brosnan never had any chemistry with any of his leading or supporting ladies. And so far, i'd say the same for Craig.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited February 2012 Posts: 11,189
    Brosnan/Hatcher, Brosnan/Richards and Brosnan/Berry (urgh!) I'd agree with but not sure about Brosnan/Yeoh. I thought they worked quite well together.
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    It was more convincing than previous Bond love interest scenarios you could mention such as Roberts/Moore, Brosnan/Berry, Brosnan/Hatcher, Moore/Chiles, Moore/Ekland, Dalton/Soto, Craig/Arterton, Connery/Mie Hama etc.

    Pity that Eva Green had to perish in Royale, I didn't find her character that overly annoying or disinteresting and did appear sophisticated and smart. The drowning scene in Italy is actually quite haunting and stays with you, one of the more elaborate deaths of the franchise and quite touching maybe

    All told we have seen worse pairings on the Bond screen
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    Craig/Green were OK but the dialogue between the two of them at times was very weak. The train sequence seemed like a poor man's variation on the Cary Grant/Eva Marie Saint train scene in Alfred Hitchcock's North By Northwest while the scene at Lake Cuomo was definitely overly dramatic. The late Richard Maibaum's writing abilities are sorely missed here. As far as CR goes, I actually preferred Craig/Caterina Murino myself.

    Lazenby/Rigg(OHMSS) easily beat them but that's probably because I like Tracy much more than Vesper. And I find Dalton/d'Abo(TLD) and Moore/Adams(OP) even more believable than either Lazenby Rigg(OHMSS) or Craig/Green(CR).

  • SharkBaitSharkBait
    Posts: 2,107
    It's all happening quite quickly. It's still better than the Bond - Tracy relationship because Bond shagged other women. I think Tracy fell for Bond before you could blink, mainly because the falling part was done in montage form. In Bond - Vesper relationship Bond had his eyes on Vesper pretty much from the moment they met, and Vesper fell later, pretty quick too.

    These are not the big romance stories you seek. But in action movie genre, and in Bond franchise they're somewhat equal. Vesper - Bond relationship was done slightly better.

    I can only think three "strong" relationships in Bond that are all somewhat romantic. Tracy, Kara and Vesper.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    actonsteve wrote:
    MajorDSmythe wrote:
    No, I don't think it was convincing, there was no chemistry there whatsoever. And the dialogue? :-& Easily one of the worst pairings in the cannon.

    No chemistry? Really? On the beach scene they burn the screen up and what about the drags her in from the rain for a snog?

    If you really want zero chemistry look at Brosnan and Yeoh, Brosnan and Richards and Brosnan and Berry...

    Can we have one thread without somebody pointlessly bashing brosnan??? So this is a thread about craig, somebody says that they didn't enjoy the CR relationship, craig fans comeback "brosnan was worse". Do we have to always bash brosnan, because some of us (including me) thought he was a pretty good bond.

    On topic, I thought craig and green worked well together. I thought they had alot of chemistry and it helps make CR a great film.

  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    There was little chemistry between Craig and Green, they were not given the material to give it a decent go either. Their romance is one of the worst in the franchise imho. In CR the chemistry between Craig & Catarina Murino was excellent, just as it was between Craig and Gemma. It seems that the leading ladies in the Craig era just aren't that good when compared to the secondary lasses.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Of course. I love that aspect of the film, and the Montenegro train scene is one of the best moments of the film and the franchise IMO. Heck, I fell in love with Vesper, so why not Bond? ;)
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited February 2012 Posts: 11,189
    The train scene was great IMO - especially considering one film earlier poor pierce was talking about "feasting" with Halle Berry. Whether or not you believed their romance as a whole you have to admit the dialogue in that one scene is more elegant than anything in DAD.

    (I'm not criticising pierce I'm criticising the dialogue which I'm not sure even Roger Moore could get away with).
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