Bond/Vesper 2006 relationship - was it convincing?

124

Comments

  • chrisisall wrote:
    Didn't buy it. Mostly because of Ms. Green.

    I'm curious; why is that?

  • Posts: 11,189
    chrisisall wrote:
    Didn't buy it. Mostly because of Ms. Green.

    I'm curious; why is that?

    I've heard some say Eva isn't a very good actress too. I don't think she's that bad at all - at least in CR.
  • Posts: 2,081
    Yeah coming to think of it it does seem obvious that Bond is merely checking up on her the following morning after the previous nights events to see if was was alright.

    Yes, of course. There was nothing to imply they'd had sex, and it was later on made very clear they hadn't by the lake-side scene later on when Bond is recovering from the torture.

    Besides, sex after the shower scene would have ruined the effect of the shower scene, and would have completely destroyed Bond's credibility in the relationship; it would have been impossible to believe that he cared about her then, or to take him seriously when he confessed his love later. Therefore the devastating effects her betrayal and her death had on Bond would have been lost, and pretty much the whole story in the movie would have become meaningless. In short, sex after the shower scene (either obvious or implied) would have ruined Casino Royale, IMO.

  • LicencedToKilt69007LicencedToKilt69007 Belgium, Wallonia
    Posts: 523
    Not convincing at all. They delivered their lines ok but it didn't have any screen chemistry between each other. I never felt he truly loved her. The dialogues were so-so but not as bad as DAD's G. Johnson.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    Posts: 4,521
    I realy hope Bond 25 wil give more ansers with Vesper video and i hope on some
    some Flashbacks (include delete beach scene of CR) too.

    In all those years her death created trouble for Bond.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    It's Eva Green. Completely. Totally. 100%.
    She works. She makes all scenes work. She makes Casino Royale work. She is the reason Daniel Craig worked.
  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    edited September 2016 Posts: 1,130
    Germanlady wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote:
    "They even made those cringe worthy little finger lines work somehow - due to their great acting"

    That was really what I was referring to. That line seems to divide people somewhat.

    Yeah, I know, but however that might be, the little finger quote did stick, like a beloved, annoying detail..I think, it was one of those things, that were so ***, that you start to love BECAUSE they are really so sick.


    Just like I thought Christmas comes only once a year. We could have thread about theBond lines fans love and hate at the same time hehe.

    But my answer to the original thread.
    Yes i did find their love story belivable, they definitely had the chemistry and Campbell developed their relationship very nicely.

    Actually its the best developed love story in a Martin Campbell film.
    I loved The romance in Goldeneye with Bond/ Natalya and The Mask of Zorro since the actors had great chemistry in their respective films but the romance came right out if the blue.

    With Elena and Zorro was the cliche love at first sight and Goldeneye was from i don't trust to kissing after escape from the train.

    But in Casino Royale Martin Campbell finally took the right time for the romance to be developed.



  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    Posts: 1,130
    actonsteve wrote:
    No, I don't think it was convincing, there was no chemistry there whatsoever. And the dialogue? :-& Easily one of the worst pairings in the cannon.

    No chemistry? Really? On the beach scene they burn the screen up and what about the drags her in from the rain for a snog?

    If you really want zero chemistry look at Brosnan and Yeoh, Brosnan and Richards and Brosnan and Berry...


    I agree with you on Brosnan, just my opinion Brosnan fans, but Brosnan never had any chemistry with any of his leading or supporting ladies. And so far, i'd say the same for Craig.

    I disagree.
    I think Pierce had great chemistry with Sophie Marceau, Famke Janssen, Isabella Scourpco, Rosamund Pike and Teri Hatcher.


  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Ali wrote: »
    What are people's general feelings and thoughts on the finger sucking during the shower sequence?

    My first thought, I'm ashamed to say, was purely practical. "You're sucking an unknown Nigerian man's blood, have you heard of HIV, James?"

    Ugandan.
  • Posts: 19,339
    The relationship IMO was the best since Tracy and Bond in OHMSS,probably ,dare i say it,the best in the series...Green and Craig bounced off eachother beautifully...such perfect casting in a beautiful Bond film .
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,403
    Didn't know a thread on this existed, but I would say no. The relationship wasn't convincing and was actually one of the marks against the film. There is a noticeable drop in quality once the torture scene ends, after which their romance blossoms. The film doesn't really recover until the final scene.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I think that Vesper and Bond in CR and Bond and Tracy in OHMSS represent two beautiful attempts at finding new ways to view Bond that otherwise never appears in the franchise.

    What makes these two films so special, outside of their respective teams full of talent and the amazing filmmaking that occurred in each example, is that we see Bond truly at a loss in the face of a woman, disarmed and challenged in a way that is more playful than combative. It's great to see Bond a bit flummoxed by Vesper or Tracy, as they are strong women who aren't like the others he so often meets, and can throw back at him all he sends their way. They don't fall at their knees for him and don't play games; they are complex, complicated and fully formed women that feel real and genuine, which a lot of Bond girls don't. Most Bond girls fill the eye candy role of a Miss America or random exotic beauty and that's all fine and good I guess, but it's nice to see when the franchise rises to do something with a Bond girl beyond their surface features and makes them truly valuable and integral to the plot without using them as defenseless, demure toys Bond has to save from a baddie again and again.

    It almost feels like a slap in the face to Vesper and Tracy to even call them Bond girls, actually, because that title feels below them and doesn't fully paint the picture of their vitality and immense power as women in Bond's world. There's a reason these two are the only ones to truly get under Bond's skin, shake him up and make him consider leaving his life behind in a big way, and it shows in the performances of Rigg and Green and how they react to their respective Bond actors. We miss out on seeing Bond react in a noticeable way to Tracy's demise following OHMSS to DAF and a number of factors that made the filmmakers unable to deal with the aftermath of that moment properly, but in QoS Vesper gets the treatment Tracy deserved and it was beautiful to see. As Bond grieves Vesper is an unseen presence always there, and for the first time we got to see Bond troubled by a woman who actually meant something to him, and who he has complex feelings for that exist outside of boring biological attraction. Tracy and Vesper gave us glimpses of a more human Bond, the only ones to do it to that degree, and that's a big deal.

    To put it simply, there's other Bond girls, and they look good in bikinis and they have nice smiles and fill out a nice figure, sure, but then there's Tracy and Vesper. They are THE impressionable women in Bond's life that he holds on to the memory of and thinks about afterward, while the others he shags and leaves behind. There's a hollowness to most of the dynamics Bond has with Bond girls, because the history of the films tell us that he'll have his fun with them and they'll be gone in the next film, and that's quite dull and overplayed, as heavy a part of the great Bond tradition that it may be.

    It's far more interesting to once in a while see Bond in a relationship that truly feels real or that means anything to him or the viewers that go beyond appealing to the carnal desires of him or his audiences to see the skin of these women as they become sexual playthings.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    It's convincing as far as movie romances go. I will never truly be invested in a relationship in a 2-3 hour movie especially if love is not the central theme. A tv series is able to flesh out characters properly
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    It all works for one reason only.

    EVA GREEN
  • Posts: 19,339
    It all works for one reason only.

    EVA GREEN

    She is class isn't she...in every role she plays.

  • Posts: 7,653
    For me Green & Craig did not get enough acting space to develop their "relationship" the stupid cringworthy "finger" comment and the sinking house finale made darn sure of it.

    With OHMSS the director laid a foundation with little intimate scenes that led to an inevitable conclusion. With CR I did not see any more depth in the relationship than the average Bond-woman relationship. It is one of the disappointing matters in CR.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,023
    I thought it was very natural and they had great chemistry. Love that scene as they hug coming out of the rain and that nice moment Vesper chucks the pillow at him in the hotel room.
  • Posts: 16,170
    I think their chemistry was alright. No more convincing that Tim and Maryam's in TLD, though.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    The simple answer is, yes. Hence why the film is a modern classic.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    I bought it, it's Craig and Green, it wouldn't work if it was just her, a ridculous statement to make, the chemistry works both ways.

    Although no not on the same level as OHMSS, yes Craig is a better actor than George but the film sets the relationship up better, this isn't a bad aspect of CR for me but Hunt nails this so well and it's a credit to the film.

    I'm one of those that still likes the ending, having Vesper just comit suicide is Fleming boy wet dreams, there was no way they'd end the first Bond film of this era so basic as that. It needed to be a big dramatic statement and the Venice sequence was the way to go, it's infinitely better than the Miami segment of the film.

    They bothered to construct something dramatic and thrilling and both Craig and Green deliver, love it. Its still the best climax of the era, the Mr White sequence at the end is just the cherry on top.

  • edited September 2016 Posts: 676
    Bond's feelings for Vesper are well-developed - he is clearly enamoured at their first meeting - but I never quite bought Vesper's feelings for him, or the way the film presents them, anyway. Her sudden affection for Bond after the torture, knowing he loves her, knowing the pain he's been though, knowing she has to betray him, is fine... But her feelings are presented so earnestly, with tears in her eyes, that the film oversells the strength of her feelings. Add to that the overwritten dialogue about smiles, little fingers and armour, and the otherwise decent Bond/Vesper romance is losing steam fast.

    I did an edit of CR a while back that basically cut this entire section of the film. This means no reappearance of Mendel, no awful innuendo, no silly swooning on Vesper's part. The idea here was to get a move on after Le Chiffre's death - either you buy the connection between Bond and Vesper at this point or you don't, and the part I cut doesn't make it more convincing (aside from Craig's "whatever I am, I'm yours," but that sort of sincerity appears in the Bond/Vesper beach scene, as well).

    If you're interested, you can check it out here:

  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    edited September 2016 Posts: 1,130
    Ok Fleming fans get readyvto get your stomachs twisted because this is how i would have changed the Bond/Vesper relationship.

    I will make it a Brosnan style of Casino Royale meaning i will very unfaithful to Ian Fleming.

    Dont read Below if you are a Fleming Purist: it Might cuase you a heartattack















    The whole first part runs like it was in the film.
    When Vesper goes to see what Mathis wants Bond goes right after her suspecting something is wrong so When Bond gets outside he sees Vesper tied in the street and releases her perfectly on time but didn't see a man behind him who knocks out Bond we go the torture scene.

    Instead of escaping getting freed by the men who made a deal with Vesper Felix managed to gte to that place and he is the one who saves Bond in a similar style to Sukovsky in The World is not enough.

    Bond fights Le chifre kills him and places the code to get the money transferred to mi6 we get to the beach scene where he is with Vesper and here goes the little finger quote he says line nd make out to close with James Bond will return.

    So no explicit love story ill leave the service for you, just a little more connection thna usual just like Natalya in Goldeneye.
    That im not reducing Vesper that much but she wouldn't have been another Tracy.

  • Posts: 1,296
    It's ok @Szonana Vesper is no Tracy, not in the books and certainly not in the films.
  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    Posts: 1,130
    IGUANNA wrote: »
    It's ok @Szonana Vesper is no Tracy, not in the books and certainly not in the films.
    I meant not like tracy as a tragic figure, i know their personalities were very different.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    They're both super tragic. Combine their suffering with Bond's and it's a tragic triangle.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited September 2016 Posts: 4,521
    SaintMark wrote: »
    For me Green & Craig did not get enough acting space to develop their "relationship" the stupid cringworthy "finger" comment and the sinking house finale made darn sure of it.

    With OHMSS the director laid a foundation with little intimate scenes that led to an inevitable conclusion. With CR I did not see any more depth in the relationship than the average Bond-woman relationship. It is one of the disappointing matters in CR.

    Big disapointed. Sinkinghouse feels as finaly making end of this chacter.
    What happend in QOS works better. I am curouis what we going to see more of her on her video.
    Use wisely and tell us more about her.

  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    Posts: 1,130
    They're both super tragic. Combine their suffering with Bond's and it's a tragic triangle.

    Yes these two had The most tragic deaths of the franchise but this why i would have changed Vesper in the film and made her story and ending more Brosnan style and going very far from what Fleming wrote.

  • Posts: 533
    I disagree.

    I think Pierce had great chemistry with Sophie Marceau, Famke Janssen, Isabella Scourpco, Rosamund Pike and Teri Hatcher.


    Yes, and along with Halle Berry, Michelle Yeoh and Denise Richards.
  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    Posts: 1,130
    DRush76 wrote: »
    I disagree.

    I think Pierce had great chemistry with Sophie Marceau, Famke Janssen, Isabella Scourpco, Rosamund Pike and Teri Hatcher.


    Yes, and along with Halle Berry, Michelle Yeoh and Denise Richards.

    True. i think Pierce Brosnan and Sean Connery had the best chemistry with their respective Bond girls, the only one i think Connery failed with was Kissy the main Bond girl in You only live Twice but other than that h ehad great chemistry with all including Tiffany case.

  • Posts: 1,296
    Milovy wrote: »
    Bond's feelings for Vesper are well-developed - he is clearly enamoured at their first meeting - but I never quite bought Vesper's feelings for him, or the way the film presents them, anyway. Her sudden affection for Bond after the torture, knowing he loves her, knowing the pain he's been though, knowing she has to betray him, is fine... But her feelings are presented so earnestly, with tears in her eyes, that the film oversells the strength of her feelings. Add to that the overwritten dialogue about smiles, little fingers and armour, and the otherwise decent Bond/Vesper romance is losing steam fast.

    I did an edit of CR a while back that basically cut this entire section of the film. This means no reappearance of Mendel, no awful innuendo, no silly swooning on Vesper's part. The idea here was to get a move on after Le Chiffre's death - either you buy the connection between Bond and Vesper at this point or you don't, and the part I cut doesn't make it more convincing (aside from Craig's "whatever I am, I'm yours," but that sort of sincerity appears in the Bond/Vesper beach scene, as well).

    If you're interested, you can check it out here:

    I liked it better. Good work. :)
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