Would "A View To A Kill" have been more liked if Bond had been younger?

Ellis

Don't misunderstand. I love Sir Rog' portrayal Of Bond. He is my favorite ( though I acknowledge that Sir Sean is the gold standard for Bonds, as does Rog himself). But I see AVTAK rated so low among Bond films. I feel it was a good movie. I certainly think the females in that movie were mis-cast. (Roger was asked once which stunt that he actually did himself was the most dangerous. His response was: off camera, it was asking Cubby why his check was late; on camera, it was the love scenes with Grace Jones)..... love that guy...LOL. Anyway, if Dalton had come on board for this film, would it have rated much higher?

DoubleOhhSeven

I think so. It had alot in common with GF but everyone's main complaint was Moore's age. Had Dalton debuted at 41 with AVTAK I think it would've been much more well-recieved.

PrinceKamalKhan

Possibly. However, its script was very weak. It seemed like Richard Maibaum and Michael G. Wilson just took the scripts from previous Bond films, tore them up, threw them up in the air and pasted them together as they landed. A major script overhaul was necessary regardless whether Moore or Dalton had played Bond.

karatemanchan37

Definitely a weak film in all aspects. And while I applaud their casting of Christopher Walken, I am still confused on why Grace Jones was even CONSIDERED in a Bond Film.

00Beast

I think AVTAK is an outstanding Bond movie, and it has remained a favorite of mine for a long time. However, I do agree that Timothy Dalton could have made a big improvement where Roger's age didn't work out.

Baltimore_007

I feel better after that

I saw View To A Kill a few days ago, and I can't defend it really, we've been through it a thousand times that Moore was evidently too old for the part of 007 by 1985 but if you watch he does have a way with the women, that age can be no barrier. Would Dalton have done a better job of it in his place if he had entered one film earlier?

In some areas Yes, in others No. Take the latter for example, you watch next time Bond with the women, OK, the Roberts relationship was a bit unsavory, but I watched and when Moore was in the Hot Tubs with Fullerton or at the Zorin residence 'Mayday where have you been?, I've waiting for you - to take care of me personally', it did kind of work in a strange way, even with the Iceberg girl at the very start in Siberia, I was thinking maybe Dalton wouldn't have worked so well in those moments. Certainly more plausible in the action department though and suitable actor

Moore has publicly stated that his swansong, sorry, his last Bond movie was by far his least favorite, he didn't like working with (Grace) Jones and all told it's one he'd rather forget he was involved in, I can fully appreciate that

echo

A younger Bond wouldn't have saved the lousy script and casting of Roberts. And the Bond/Tibbett relationship wouldn't have worked except with a recast.

Jones was at least interesting. The rest of this movie was on autopilot.

Kennon

AVTAK's script was on the weak side even for a Bond. That was largely due to the popular Moore in the lead. Doubt they'd have tried that weak a script with a new actor. AVTAK was Bond on auto-pilot and the potential it had, microchips, the blimp, henchwoman and so on, all was largely wasted because Moore guaranteed box office. Another actor would have forced their hand to give him a better story and parts to shine in. The fight in Zorin's lab is a joke, seen better ones in Hart to Hart.

OHMSS69

I am in the minority that actually liked AVTAK. Had Dalton been cast it would have had to be re written with the humor toned down (the fire engine chase for one)

Everyone likes to bash Grace Jones/May Day but her character was quite interesting. Never mind her not being the most attractive and sexy but she worked well on screen with Moore and presented a good henchman/woman to Walken's psychotic behavior.
Tanya Roberts is good to look at but lets face it May Day was the more intriguing character.

Back to the question : would the film have worked with Dalton? With another heroine, less humor and tighter editing it might not receive the hate it gets from Bond fans.

Baltimore_007

I think where they failed was that they tried to make the May Day character, dark and suspenseful or something of an unknown commodity, threatening even, but failed in that respect, I have nothing against the actress but I don't think she should of been involved in that film. Same with Patrick McNee or David Yip even. Hell even Christopher Walken was wasted, an actor of his outstanding caliber. Not something the respective actors may look back on with pride when inspecting their collective resumes

I don't hate it, gave a full and comprehensive review recently, it's just so blatantly absurd and I have a hard time taking it seriously whenever I tune in. It does have some redeeming features I must have elaborated on before, but all told it's one of the most weakest Bond releases since the dawn of the franchise

Time for Bed

I-)

Kennon

AVTAK's biggest failure isn't that it's bad, it's just not all that good despite the talent involved. But I remember at the time it wasn't that big a disappointment. And as already noted, it does have a few nice parts as well.

actonsteve

Nah. Its fine as it is. It wouldn't be AVTAK if it changed. I remember accepting Rog at the time thinking "most spies are old geezers" Theres lots to commend AVTAK and I enjoy Rogers performance.

SaintMark

I have always enjoyed AVTAK and most probably will do. Roger Moore did an excellent job. Could it have been better, with hindsight most Bondmovies could have done better.

NicNac

Moved from News to bond Movies. Make sure you check the catagory when you open a new thread folks ;)

Torgeirtrap

It's an interesting thought. You can probably say that an younger actor (Dalton) would have been more believeable for a spy thinking about age alone, and that Roger would have benefited more from calling it quits with OP or even FYEO (my personal Roger-era favourite).

As for how the film worked out in the end, I can't help feeling that Rog' is playing a bit on his age in this one. Nothing specific, but I defenitely see it that way. In a way that works. Rog' is his humorous self, and that works fine. A AWTAK with Dalton could have gone either way. It's maybe a weak Bond-film, but I have no problem enjoying the revisits with the film from time to time. It's defenitely not a Bond-movie I would rather be without (that spot is taken by DAD).

MajorDSmythe

It didn't have to be Dalton (though I can picture a Daltonised AVTAK working), but a younger actor certainly would've gone some way to fixing AVTAK's biggest problem.

Germanlady

Just saw it recently again and without knowing, that it is considered weak, I liked it really and thought, Moores charme worked well and the age didn't bother me. To me, it seemed to have lots of Bond elements or rather Moore Bond elements, that I like. And no, I don't think, Dalton would have worked, as I don't see any charme in him, but then, he didn't work for me in his own films either. *runs for cover*

identigraph

I'm glad you enjoyed AVTAK Germanlady, it's not my favrouite but I still rate it a lot higher than a lot of the films that it is supposed to be inferior to, I still think that AVTAK being the worst Bond film is just another enduring myth like GF being the best!

007manny

its not one of his better films and i feel this cause of the reason that the plot was not really that great so i put this in the weak bond movies he did of live and let die and also a view to a kill.

Samuel001

It would help but it's main - and other - issues have already been discussed. At least having a 57 year old Bond once, should mean we never have to suffer it again.

PrinceKamalKhan

Ellis wrote:

Anyway, if Dalton had come on board for this film, would it have rated much higher?

I posted this in another thread but this is my rough and raw/"alternate universe" reimagining of a Dalton AVTAK

Pre title sequence: Introduce Timothy Dalton as the new 007 in a mini-adventure that has nothing or little to do with the rest of the picture(in the style of the teasers for GF, TB, FYEO and OP).

Title Sequence:(I would've retained the Duran Duran song, one of the few highlights of the actual film)

Albert R. Broccoli presents

Timothy Dalton as James Bond 007 in Ian Fleming's

FROM A VIEW TO A KILL
(I would have restored the full original Fleming title)

starring

Alison Doody as Mary Ann Russell

Patrick Macnee as Sir Godfrey Tibbett

Fiona Fullerton as Pola Ivanova

Christopher Walken as Max Zorin

and Tanya Roberts in a very small 5 minute appearance as the "sacrificial lamb" Jenny Flex

Movie opens proper: The first 20-30 mins would be a relatively faithful adaptation of the actual short story "From A View To A Kill". The SHAPE driver's murder would appear on screen and 007's subsequent investigation. He would be assigned to work with fellow agents Tibbett and lovely Mary Ann Russell(the girl in the original story), and would impersonate the SHAPE driver and infiltrate the Russian spy gang in the forest. The head assassin(who Bond is sure he has seen before) of this spy gang gets away and Bond finds a stash of Zorin microchips among the KGB spy ring materials. After a brief dalliance with the gorgeous Mary Ann, Bond reports this information to M. Bond would learn that Zorin industries are a private British defense contractor that is developing microchips that are impervious to the magnetic pulse of a nuclear explosion but they've not been put in use by the British defense systems yet. Zorin would still be of East German origin but he
defected to England, became a U.K. citizen and then spent several years in New York where he made his millions. (This would explain Walken/Zorin's NY accent). M then sends Bond to investigate Zorin at a party his Chantilly estate. While there Bond meets and flirts with Zorin's mistress/secretary Jenny Flex(who Zorin brought from NY, also explaining her accent) Bond also runs into another lady at the party, his ex-lover, ballerina/KGB agent Pola Ivanova. After some brief flirting and catching up on old times, Pola mysteriously vanishes. To get more info on Zorin, Bond starts romancing Jenny which Zorin learns about and of course has her promptly executed(a la Corinne Dufour). Bond uses his gadgets to listen in on Zorin and his partner-in-crime whom he recognizes as the KGB assasin from the forest. Thru closer detection, Bond realizes that Pola and the KGB assassin are one and the same. Bond is caught spying and is captured by Zorin & put in some
deathtrap from which of course he escapes but not without Zorin thinking he is dead.

Bond continues his mission in pursuit of Pola to learn more about what she and Zorin are up to. The Siberian ski chase could be inserted here where Bond pursues her but ultimately rescues Pola from an avalanche(a la Bond and Elektra). After this experience, they "warm up" in a hot tub reminiscing about old times. As Bond gets more of the information on their plan, Pola doublecrosses Bond and he is again captured by Zorin. It turns out that Zorin and Pola are planning to cause a nuclear blast in outer space over the U.K. to, as Frederick Gray put it, "paralyze us at the Russian's mercy". This will be done after Zorin installs the "nuclear-explosion impervious" microchips(which of course won't be) in all of Britain's national defense systems. In the end, Bond of course thwarts Zorin and Pola's plans with the aid of Mary Ann who Bond ends up with in the final clinch. Tibbett would also have a larger role as Bond's ally and not be killed off. Perhaps Tibbett
should become head of Station F-France.

BAIN123

In answer to the threads question: probably. I like AVTAK but it's not just Moore that seems "old". The whole film has a slightly "sleepy" feeling to it. Had a younger actor (ala Dalton) debued earlier I think it would be more well regarded.

Not that Moore wasn't charming as ever in View - he was - but he was starting to lose credibility.

Also, a 57 year old sleeping with 4 women all old enough to be his daughters? Urgh.

Risico007

PrinceKamalKhan wrote:

Ellis wrote:

Anyway, if Dalton had come on board for this film, would it have rated much higher?

I posted this in another thread but this is my rough and raw/"alternate universe" reimagining of a Dalton AVTAK

Pre title sequence: Introduce Timothy Dalton as the new 007 in a mini-adventure that has nothing or little to do with the rest of the picture(in the style of the teasers for GF, TB, FYEO and OP).

Title Sequence:(I would've retained the Duran Duran song, one of the few highlights of the actual film)

Albert R. Broccoli presents

Timothy Dalton as James Bond 007 in Ian Fleming's

FROM A VIEW TO A KILL
(I would have restored the full original Fleming title)

starring

Alison Doody as Mary Ann Russell

Patrick Macnee as Sir Godfrey Tibbett

Fiona Fullerton as Pola Ivanova

Christopher Walken as Max Zorin

and Tanya Roberts in a very small 5 minute appearance as the "sacrificial lamb" Jenny Flex

Movie opens proper: The first 20-30 mins would be a relatively faithful adaptation of the actual short story "From A View To A Kill". The SHAPE driver's murder would appear on screen and 007's subsequent investigation. He would be assigned to work with fellow agents Tibbett and lovely Mary Ann Russell(the girl in the original story), and would impersonate the SHAPE driver and infiltrate the Russian spy gang in the forest. The head assassin(who Bond is sure he has seen before) of this spy gang gets away and Bond finds a stash of Zorin microchips among the KGB spy ring materials. After a brief dalliance with the gorgeous Mary Ann, Bond reports this information to M. Bond would learn that Zorin industries are a private British defense contractor that is developing microchips that are impervious to the magnetic pulse of a nuclear explosion but they've not been put in use by the British defense systems yet. Zorin would still be of East German origin but he
defected to England, became a U.K. citizen and then spent several years in New York where he made his millions. (This would explain Walken/Zorin's NY accent). M then sends Bond to investigate Zorin at a party his Chantilly estate. While there Bond meets and flirts with Zorin's mistress/secretary Jenny Flex(who Zorin brought from NY, also explaining her accent) Bond also runs into another lady at the party, his ex-lover, ballerina/KGB agent Pola Ivanova. After some brief flirting and catching up on old times, Pola mysteriously vanishes. To get more info on Zorin, Bond starts romancing Jenny which Zorin learns about and of course has her promptly executed(a la Corinne Dufour). Bond uses his gadgets to listen in on Zorin and his partner-in-crime whom he recognizes as the KGB assasin from the forest. Thru closer detection, Bond realizes that Pola and the KGB assassin are one and the same. Bond is caught spying and is captured by Zorin & put in some
deathtrap from which of course he escapes but not without Zorin thinking he is dead.

Bond continues his mission in pursuit of Pola to learn more about what she and Zorin are up to. The Siberian ski chase could be inserted here where Bond pursues her but ultimately rescues Pola from an avalanche(a la Bond and Elektra). After this experience, they "warm up" in a hot tub reminiscing about old times. As Bond gets more of the information on their plan, Pola doublecrosses Bond and he is again captured by Zorin. It turns out that Zorin and Pola are planning to cause a nuclear blast in outer space over the U.K. to, as Frederick Gray put it, "paralyze us at the Russian's mercy". This will be done after Zorin installs the "nuclear-explosion impervious" microchips(which of course won't be) in all of Britain's national defense systems. In the end, Bond of course thwarts Zorin and Pola's plans with the aid of Mary Ann who Bond ends up with in the final clinch. Tibbett would also have a larger role as Bond's ally and not be killed off. Perhaps Tibbett
should become head of Station F-France.

Quite possibly the best Bond fan plot i have read in some time Brilliant work!

LeChiffre

Whoever played Bond in AVTAK is irrelevant if the stupid scenes involving the idiotic San Francisco police remain in the film! Even embarrassing for Roger Moore film and that;s saying something

PrinceKamalKhan

Risico007 wrote:

PrinceKamalKhan wrote:

Ellis wrote:

Anyway, if Dalton had come on board for this film, would it have rated much higher?

I posted this in another thread but this is my rough and raw/"alternate universe" reimagining of a Dalton AVTAK

Pre title sequence: Introduce Timothy Dalton as the new 007 in a mini-adventure that has nothing or little to do with the rest of the picture(in the style of the teasers for GF, TB, FYEO and OP).

Title Sequence:(I would've retained the Duran Duran song, one of the few highlights of the actual film)

Albert R. Broccoli presents

Timothy Dalton as James Bond 007 in Ian Fleming's

FROM A VIEW TO A KILL
(I would have restored the full original Fleming title)

starring

Alison Doody as Mary Ann Russell

Patrick Macnee as Sir Godfrey Tibbett

Fiona Fullerton as Pola Ivanova

Christopher Walken as Max Zorin

and Tanya Roberts in a very small 5 minute appearance as the "sacrificial lamb" Jenny Flex

Movie opens proper: The first 20-30 mins would be a relatively faithful adaptation of the actual short story "From A View To A Kill". The SHAPE driver's murder would appear on screen and 007's subsequent investigation. He would be assigned to work with fellow agents Tibbett and lovely Mary Ann Russell(the girl in the original story), and would impersonate the SHAPE driver and infiltrate the Russian spy gang in the forest. The head assassin(who Bond is sure he has seen before) of this spy gang gets away and Bond finds a stash of Zorin microchips among the KGB spy ring materials. After a brief dalliance with the gorgeous Mary Ann, Bond reports this information to M. Bond would learn that Zorin industries are a private British defense contractor that is developing microchips that are impervious to the magnetic pulse of a nuclear explosion but they've not been put in use by the British defense systems yet. Zorin would still be of East German origin but he
defected to England, became a U.K. citizen and then spent several years in New York where he made his millions. (This would explain Walken/Zorin's NY accent). M then sends Bond to investigate Zorin at a party his Chantilly estate. While there Bond meets and flirts with Zorin's mistress/secretary Jenny Flex(who Zorin brought from NY, also explaining her accent) Bond also runs into another lady at the party, his ex-lover, ballerina/KGB agent Pola Ivanova. After some brief flirting and catching up on old times, Pola mysteriously vanishes. To get more info on Zorin, Bond starts romancing Jenny which Zorin learns about and of course has her promptly executed(a la Corinne Dufour). Bond uses his gadgets to listen in on Zorin and his partner-in-crime whom he recognizes as the KGB assasin from the forest. Thru closer detection, Bond realizes that Pola and the KGB assassin are one and the same. Bond is caught spying and is captured by Zorin & put in some
deathtrap from which of course he escapes but not without Zorin thinking he is dead.

Bond continues his mission in pursuit of Pola to learn more about what she and Zorin are up to. The Siberian ski chase could be inserted here where Bond pursues her but ultimately rescues Pola from an avalanche(a la Bond and Elektra). After this experience, they "warm up" in a hot tub reminiscing about old times. As Bond gets more of the information on their plan, Pola doublecrosses Bond and he is again captured by Zorin. It turns out that Zorin and Pola are planning to cause a nuclear blast in outer space over the U.K. to, as Frederick Gray put it, "paralyze us at the Russian's mercy". This will be done after Zorin installs the "nuclear-explosion impervious" microchips(which of course won't be) in all of Britain's national defense systems. In the end, Bond of course thwarts Zorin and Pola's plans with the aid of Mary Ann who Bond ends up with in the final clinch. Tibbett would also have a larger role as Bond's ally and not be killed off. Perhaps Tibbett
should become head of Station F-France.

Quite possibly the best Bond fan plot i have read in some time Brilliant work!

Thank you! :)

Master_Dahark

I think that if 'age' is the only thing to fix, then it's not just limited to Bond. I felt that all of MI6 was too damn old in that movie!
If we got Dalton and Caroline Bliss, that would be a good start.

MrEon

I feel that John Glen's direction was very worn out on AVTAK same old stuff, far to safe!
If Eon had gone for a change then Dalton as Bond followed by a new director!? But who... Martin Campbell was off the radar at this point, so who!? John Mctiernan!??

AVTAK... with Dalton as Bond, and Mctiernan behind the lens!!! Now i'd of paid to see that, but then I paid to see AVTAK as it is, several times in fact!!!? My first at the cinema on my own one tuesday afternoon in 85!! :>

BAIN123

I think in many ways Dalton's films also felt a bit tired and a bit worn out. I like them and I don't mean to have a go at Dalton fans but there is a slightly "sleepy" feeling to those aswell. Especially LTK - perhaps that has something to do with the Michael Kamen score. It just, to me, feels like something's coming to an end - perhaps I'm being a bit unfair?

echo

Or, to answer the thread's question a la Stacey Sutton: "I douuuubt that."

RogueThunderball

A younger bond would really improve my feelings about this film. A younger Bond, especially Dalton would have been awesome. AVTAK's action is horrible and a more capable Bond could have really improved the action scenes and brought a vitality to the movie. It still wouln't be a favorite because the plot is too recycled but it would be a much more enjoyable experience.

00Beast

RogueThunderball wrote:

A younger bond would really improve my feelings about this film. A younger Bond, especially Dalton would have been awesome. AVTAK's action is horrible and a more capable Bond could have really improved the action scenes and brought a vitality to the movie. It still wouln't be a favorite because the plot is too recycled but it would be a much more enjoyable experience.

Even though AVTAK is a favorite of mine, I do agree that the action is terrible, except for the ending of course. Moore's age is obsviously a factor with this, and if we had Dalton in AVTAK, it would have been light-years better on action.