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Would "A View To A Kill" have been more liked if Bond had been younger?

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Comments

  • The_ReaperThe_Reaper
    Posts: 1,092
    My biggest complaint about the film is that they didn't acknowledge Moore's age or the fact it was his swansong. They had to have known this was it. They should have made it feel that way. Like, Bond is aging, we all love him, let's send him off with a bang. Instead it feels like any ol' other adventure.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,256
    Personally I believe that Moore's age is the least of AVTAK's concerns.

    Let's face it, Moore's charms didn't exactly escape him with ageing. He had as much 'spunk' in him in '85 as he did in '73.

    AVTAK also gave Bond more age-acceptable things to do. He delivered some punches and gun shots but he wasn't base jumping or anything. Also, he's Bond. I can believe that a seasoned Bond can still perform the exhilarating physical work we see for example on the fire truck ladder.

    Truly, AVTAK has a lot going for it, IMO, except for a good script. The cast is fine, the music is great, the intentions are solid, the action is mostly well-staged. If only some of those terrible plot elements could have been replaced by more convincing ideas, AVTAK would have been a great Bond film. Now, it's *only* good in my book.

    I know, I know, TLD featured a younger Bond and it's one of the more beloved Bonds. The difference, however, isn't Moore versus Dalton - although I always welcome Dalton as Bond - but instead it's the fact that TLD benefits from excellent screen writing. Hence, if you ask me if a younger Bond would have made AVTAK a *better* film, I say no. Moore's great, as always. Age was never an issue IMHO.
  • Dr_MetzDr_Metz
    edited February 2012 Posts: 401
    If Moore had been younger, it would have probably been one of his better films. I will always prefer a Dalton AVTAK, however. The love scenes were pretty hard to watch, especially the Grace Jones one.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,256
    But given the extravaganza surrounding Grace Jones, I'd say a love scene with any Bond actor would be hard to watch. ;-)
  • Whitaker1987Whitaker1987
    edited February 2012 Posts: 172
    00Beast wrote:
    I think AVTAK is an outstanding Bond movie, and it has remained a favorite of mine for a long time. However, I do agree that Timothy Dalton could have made a big improvement where Roger's age didn't work out.

    Could not agree with you more on your post & maybe AVTAK drags for many but I've always liked this film.

    Still not my fav but has alot of neat parts Golden Gate, Paris, Walken & the FAB score.

    My real dislike is the pre title sequence I think the Bond series up till now had its fair share of snow scenes & the cheap helicopter effects did not help the situation.

    Dalton maybe could have done a great job but if he did do you think TLD would have been as good?

    Oh well heres a neat image of how Dalton's AVTAK

    http://007art.free.fr/posters/a_view_to_a_kill_dalton_1.jpg
    SaintMark wrote:
    I have always enjoyed AVTAK and most probably will do. Roger Moore did an excellent job. Could it have been better, with hindsight most Bondmovies could have done better.

    Nothing against Moore at all but its a pity he didn't keep his facial make over perhaps for after AVTAK or not ?

    I see a few mention this & in OP he was not too old looking or was he? Just my opinion.

    I thought he looked a bit older when he did FYEO rather than OP.
  • fountainbridgefountainbridge
    Posts: 16
    The facelift that Roger had didn't work - his eyes are "dead". He looked like a waxwork dummy. Although he looks older in the previous films he looks more natural.

    Personally I like the movie - although if you took out all the really silly stuff - "Beach Boys", swinging about on the fire truck etc then it would have been much better.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    Dr_Metz wrote:
    If Moore had been younger, it would have probably been one of his better films. I will always prefer a Dalton AVTAK, however. The love scenes were pretty hard to watch, especially the Grace Jones one.
    DarthDimi wrote:
    But given the extravaganza surrounding Grace Jones, I'd say a love scene with any Bond actor would be hard to watch. ;-)

    The character of MayDay, like Jaws, Bibi Dahl, J.W. Pepper, and NickNack, is the kind of character who could only work in a Roger Moore Bond film. That's why I eliminated her from my "alternate universe" Timothy Dalton FAVTAK reworking and made Alison Doody and Fiona Fullerton the leading ladies instead.

  • forgotmyusernameforgotmyusername
    Posts: 2,782
    He's a bit creaky but I've grown to like this GF remake and the soundtrack is awesome.

    Best bit for me and a great sign off for RM:

  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    Posts: 4,813
    fountainbridge wrote:
    The facelift that Roger had didn't work - his eyes are "dead". He looked like a waxwork dummy. Although he looks older in the previous films he looks more natural.

    What exactly did Roger have done? He does look noticeably different going from OP to AVTAK but I can't put my finger on it.
    I'll say this much though: his hairdo and wardrobe doesn't help much. Made him really look old
  • identigraphidentigraph
    Posts: 1,052
    He had his mole removed, i'm not sure about anything else.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    if dalton was cast, they would've had to re-write the script. AVTAK was written for roger and it shows. I think roger did pretty well, if he looked younger then I'm sure more people would like the film.
  • bondsumbondsum
    Posts: 3,333
    identigraph wrote:
    He had his mole removed, i'm not sure about anything else.

    And a face nip 'n' tuck

  • identigraphidentigraph
    Posts: 1,052
    well if he had a face lift, it made him look older, so it backfired badly, I have always thought it was the make up, hair and wardrobe (and advancing years) that contributed to Rog's apperance during this film. Having watched a lot prom stuff and interviews from that year he seems to look better without all the heavy make up.
  • Jones_The_BondJones_The_Bond
    Posts: 344
    I agree with identigraph. Rog should just have been Rog. I'm sure the pressure to look younger was great but, as Cary Grant always said: "I don't want to look younger than my age. I want to look good for my age."

    I think Roger Moore looked very good for a 57 year old. Not even James Bond can defeat Old Father Time.
  • bondsumbondsum
    edited February 2012 Posts: 3,333
    As mentioned in April's Empire magazine, Stanley Kubrick was a fan of Who Dares Wins and to his utter disbelief Lewis Collins never became 007. I have to agree with Mr Kubrick. Even if Collins had only been a stopgap between Moore and Brosnan, I feel it would have been a step in the right direction.

    <img src="http://i.bdbphotos.com/images/orig/2/m/2mys485etg45gt58.jpg"; alt="Lewis Collins"><br><a href="http://www.fanpix.net/gallery/lewis-collins-pictures.htm"; target="_blank">Lewis Collins Pictures</a>

    I was never a fan of AVTAK aside from the music. Over the years the Bond franchise has produced quite a few stinkers and, for me, this movie definitely falls in to that category.
  • 0iker00iker0
    Posts: 501
    I think that it would be rated even worse. Let me explain.

    Imagine Dalton's Bond with May Day, a woman who apart of being, as I said in another forum, "Jaws 2, now he is a woman", uses the lady gaga imposible clothes. This is the real problem of the film. It's true that Moore is too old for the role, but he was the best for the role taking into acount the cast, including of course Grace Jones.

    To finish with this, I must say that I really like AVTAK, I think that MR was Roger's worst.
  • ReneMathisReneMathis
    Posts: 165
    You can roll a turd in as much glitter as you wish but it'll always be a turd.

    Sadly, Sir RM's final outing is a turd with or without him.
    Also agree with much of the above, they could have done so much more with Sir Godfrey Tibbett & Pola Ivanova.
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    Fullerton was only on screen for a brief moment, I enjoyed the Hot Tubs scene in SF with Moore - 'The Bubbles tickle my - Tchaikovsky', a bit of a blank character though and I think the few minutes of screen time she got was sufficient

    McNee was fun to watch as the Bond driver, 'well don't just stand their wheezing Tibbett, here let me help you' (takes away umbrella), 'Pant Pant, thank you Sir'. That was a genuine amusing moment and there was some camararderie between actors. Had one of the most inane exits of the series, being taken out during a car wash, and how did Jones get into the vehicle so quickly when the gates opened? The Tibbett and Ivanova characters were tolerable but I think one film was enough for the pair of them, they didn't overstay their welcome
  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    edited February 2012 Posts: 4,813
    I can't find it right now, but I remember on youtube there was an out take of the scene when Stacy gets fired at City Hall and Bond comforts her briefly-- well, Roger kept the scene going with his own little ad-lib: he picked up her papers and said something along the lines of 'oh come on, life is short-- I mean f*** him, let's get out of here!' and Tanya and all the extras started laughing!
    I had never heard Rog say the 'F word' before and my eyes just about popped out of my head!

    lol I have to admit, Roger Moore is even cooler than James Bond! Maybe they should have let him ad-lib some more?
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    It's hard to imagine Moore using profanities really, even as Bond between takes or other releases, it's just doesn't fit into his demeanor, he's like a Gentlemans Bond you could say

    Incidentally, I'm not really a fan of Moore outside of Bond in regard to his other work but I was watching one of his other films a few months back and his character broke someones neck, I was watching and thinking 'did he just do that, this is Roger Moore, I wasn't expecting that'

    Silly maybe but significant nonetheless
  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    Posts: 4,813
    What movie was that? I'd have LOVED to see him break a few necks as Bond!!
    BTW, the movie 'Boat Trip' from 2002, (an abomination I might add) has good ol' Roger cursing up quite a storm at the end of the movie! Any of the scenes with Roger are definitely worth checking out- the rest of the movie is garbage; better hop on youtube.
    I might add, the man looked outstanding! Hardly much different from the way he looked in AVTAK!
  • DCisaredDCisared Liverpool
    Posts: 1,329
    You carn't polish a turd.
  • DoubleOhhSevenDoubleOhhSeven
    Posts: 1,778
    forgotmyusername wrote:
    He's a bit creaky but I've grown to like this GF remake and the soundtrack is awesome.

    Best bit for me and a great sign off for RM:


    I agree. Always loved the soundtrack. Nobody does it better than the late great John Barry.
  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    edited March 2012 Posts: 4,813
    After reading this thread all week, I decided to watch AVTAK and came to a concrete realization: Rog was NOT too old. (in terms of how he looked, that is) I think all the bad talk had clouded my memory and imagined him way worse than he actually was.
    THAT SAID, he was doing his hair differently and it was way lighter than it had been in the past, and some of his outfits were very 'grandpa' and it didn't help at all.
    While watching, I kept an eye on his face and he really didn't look much different than FYEO & OP.

    I had a good time watching and I've decided Roger can do no wrong.

    I was just an infant at the time/ maybe everyone was sick of one actor in the role 7 times in a row, I don't know, but I am putting my foot down and saying that AVTAK was a solid Roger Moore Bond movie
  • DoubleOhhSevenDoubleOhhSeven
    Posts: 1,778
    @Master_Dahark. You're right about people getting sick of an actor after 7 films. Afterall how many series' can you name where the lead actor returned for 7 straight films over the course of over a decade? It's a short list. The only one I can think of at the moment is William Shatner in the Star Trek films. He starred in 7 straight films however his role in Generations was more of a supporting role. Patrick Stewart was the lead of that film. Plus people were already making fun of Shatner's age by the 5th or 6th film. It's reasons like that that Im not sure craig doing 8 films is such a good idea. As much as I love Craig I think 5 films is a perfect number for him.

    Oh the Harry Potter movies have the same leads but I've never seen them so I can't comment.
  • fountainbridgefountainbridge
    Posts: 16
    If you forget the crap gags throughout the film, Roger plays it pretty straight - Bond does not like Zorin - compare this Bond to the Bond in TMWTGG -

  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    Posts: 4,813
    Sorry for the necro-post, fellas-- but I found this awesome fan poster online and had to share!
    It's basically just a face swap, but it's so well done and totally looks real!

    avtak.png
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,231
    No, not for me anyway. AVTAK has always been at the bottom of the pile in my opinion, and rightly so. Moore's age is the most obvious but not the only problem. AVTAK commits the one crime that I can't allow in any Bond film, and one that only DAF has committed too: it is boring. If it were not for Walken's great performance and the always great John Barry, the film would have rendered me comatose. The action is lacklustre, and the overall story just didn't have that fresh feeling. Tanya Roberts is easily the worst Bond girl too.
  • LeChiffreLeChiffre
    Posts: 1,548
    In a word, better! Moore looked way too old in AVTAK. His fight scenes were embarrassing as was his ogling of Stacey.
  • SharkBaitSharkBait
    edited July 2012 Posts: 2,107
    It would've probably been better with younger Dalton, because all the girls in the picture were mere babies compared to Sir Moore. But I kind of liked how Moore was more like a protecting father figure (who wanted to shag her) to Stacey, who only had her after he had defeated that lunatic blond man.
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