Would "A View To A Kill" have been more liked if Bond had been younger?

OHMSS69

karatemanchan37 wrote:

Definitely a weak film in all aspects. And while I applaud their casting of Christopher Walken, I am still confused on why Grace Jones was even CONSIDERED in a Bond Film.

I also happened to like AVTAK. Bond henchmen and henchwomen usually have bizarre appearances.

As far as Dalton Versus Moore: the vast majority of Moore's films (exception being TSWLM and MR) WOULD HAVE BEEN TONS BETTER HAD DALTON PLAYED IN THEM. (that goes for Brosnan's films as well)

Sharky

00Beast wrote:

RogueThunderball wrote:

A younger bond would really improve my feelings about this film. A younger Bond, especially Dalton would have been awesome. AVTAK's action is horrible and a more capable Bond could have really improved the action scenes and brought a vitality to the movie. It still wouln't be a favorite because the plot is too recycled but it would be a much more enjoyable experience.

Even though AVTAK is a favorite of mine, I do agree that the action is terrible, except for the ending of course. Moore's age is obsviously a factor with this, and if we had Dalton in AVTAK, it would have been light-years better on action.

I agree with this, i dont think sir rog was the most comfortable with the hand to hand combat anyway but the fights in zorin's warehouse and the one in stacey's house are pretty poor and i also dislike the fire engine chase. i think a younger bond would've improved those scenes. i still like the film though it is one of my guilty pleasures along with DAF and MR and dare i say DAD. i'm running for cover now!

BAIN123

For a while now I've considered the fight with Bond/Tibbet in the warehouse as a good contender for "worst fight in the series" (yep, it even beats the climax of DAD). At least the final Golden Gate bridge fight makes up for it.

St_George

I love The 'Kill - have always felt the collision of '80s gloss, sheen and style of Christopher Walken, Grace Jones, Duran Duran and San Francisco with Sir Rog's very old-school and older British punning hero is a sheer delight. It's far from a perfect film, but has huge dollops of charm mostly due to the above.

For me then, asking whether AVTAK would be better (or more liked) had it featured a younger man as Bond, is like asking whether it would have been better had Beaker played Bond... :p

myworldisenough

View to a Kill is my least favourite of the Moore movies and whilst Moore was at this point now too old to be believable for me, it's not his fault. The producers should have been brave enough to call it a day after the far superior Octopussy and bring in some new blood. I think TLD is proof of where they needed to be.

St_George

myworldisenough wrote:

View to a Kill is my least favourite of the Moore movies and whilst Moore was at this point now too old to be believable for me, it's not his fault. The producers should have been brave enough to call it a day after the far superior Octopussy and bring in some new blood. I think TLD is proof of where they needed to be.

This may have been mentioned already in this thread, but I'll say it anyway - it all comes down to risk; financial risk.

Sir Rog was a comfortable pair of hands as Bond, as far as the '80s goes. The box-office of his efforts were not spectacular compared to that of many of the 007 flicks of the '60s and '70s, but were respectable to say the least (and that's not ignoring the fact that Bond was up against Indiana Jones and its similar Star Wars-inspired family fantasy adventure fare and also the likes of the Die Hards and Lethal Weapons that decade - in short, the rest of Hollywood had caught up with Bond by then; something that no actor in the role could have risen above on his own).

The danger then for the producers and the studio stumping up the money in casting someone younger and supposedly more dynamic as Bond to gee up the box-office would have been that it may not have worked - and, in fact, the possibility the move would insure there'd be a lower box-office return. Any such change wouldn't necessarily have been an improvement in that area. Indeed, when you look at the different statistics of TLD's box-office and its overall box-office, there wasn't actually a great improvement at all on AVTAK's. Sir Rog had had his day by then and they went with a younger actor (they had to), but it didn't result in bringing in much more money. Had they had a more charismatic, dynamic performer as Bond and a more dynamic director for TLD (a la CR), well, for me it may have been a different story, but then that's a whole different debate... ;)

myworldisenough

St_George wrote:

myworldisenough wrote:

View to a Kill is my least favourite of the Moore movies and whilst Moore was at this point now too old to be believable for me, it's not his fault. The producers should have been brave enough to call it a day after the far superior Octopussy and bring in some new blood. I think TLD is proof of where they needed to be.

This may have been mentioned already in this thread, but I'll say it anyway - it all comes down to risk; financial risk.

Sir Rog was a comfortable pair of hands as Bond, as far as the '80s goes. The box-office of his efforts were not spectacular compared to that of many of the 007 flicks of the '60s and '70s, but were respectable to say the least (and that's not ignoring the fact that Bond was up against Indiana Jones and its similar Star Wars-inspired family fantasy adventure fare and also the likes of the Die Hards and Lethal Weapons that decade - in short, the rest of Hollywood had caught up with Bond by then; something that no actor in the role could have risen above on his own).

The danger then for the producers and the studio stumping up the money in casting someone younger and supposedly more dynamic as Bond to gee up the box-office would have been that it may not have worked - and, in fact, the possibility the move would insure there'd be a lower box-office return. Any such change wouldn't necessarily have been an improvement in that area. Indeed, when you look at the different statistics of TLD's box-office and its overall box-office, there wasn't actually a great improvement at all on AVTAK's. Sir Rog had had his day by then and they went with a younger actor (they had to), but it didn't result in bringing in much more money. Had they had a more charismatic, dynamic performer as Bond and a more dynamic director for TLD (a la CR), well, for me it may have been a different story, but then that's a whole different debate... ;)

You're right St George, that is for a whole different debate, although I think Dalton was perfectly cast for TLD. I agree with the reasons you state for Moore being the safe bet and that it boiled down to the money but as I stated I just wish they had been brave enough to have opted for a new Bond. Money talks though so I see why the decision was made to squeeze one more Bond out of Sir Rog. I feel 57 is just too old for a globe trotting action hero that beds the women and saves the day etc. I do love Sir Rog though but for me Octopussy would have been the perfect movie for him to take his final bow.

St_George

myworldisenough wrote:

I do love Sir Rog though but for me Octopussy would have been the perfect movie for him totake his final bow.

Yep, in the end it's horses for courses, isn't it? For me, OP's all over the place, and because I really like it I'm therefore pleased the great Sir Rog bowed out with The 'Kill (easily my favourite '80s Bond flick)... :)

echo

I never understood why she was in a pink dress.

Baltimore_007

No, no, no, Moore's final hurrah should of been FYEO, and what a good release it was too. It's not really a favorite, but it's SERIOUS, something that Octopussy and AVTAK simply can't stand up to. You can't have a 57 year old James Bond, although Craig may come close as it stands, but seems doubtful. Thing is, I really would not of wanted Dalton in a AVTAK or as James Bond in 1985, it just doesn't seem appropriate, Moore did OK, if a bit embarrassing, but the overalll release was a disaster, but I just feel Timmy wouldn't have fit in there. Daylights was the right time for a Dalton debut

00Beast

I think A View to a Kill is a top-notch Bond movie already as it is, considering it is #3 in my rankings, but I do think that a younger Bond might have improved things. Let's say Timothy Dalton came in early in 1985. That would have improved the action drastically! As much as I love AVTAK, the action is quite weak, except for the last thirty minutes in the climax, which is amazingly brilliant. Take the fight in Zorin's underground factory. Had Dalton done this scene, it would have been far better! Also, I think that Dalton would have gone up well against Walken's Max Zorin, though I do think that Roger performed excellently with his lead villain.

wildboonjive

It may have been somewhat better liked, but I don't know to what degree. Sir Rog's age wasn't the only detriment the film had. There are problems all around, and I don't think you could have cast a younger Bond to make that particular screenplay work. It was tailored to Moore, so you would need to re-write a good chunk of it.

thelivingroyale

OP is great, it's in my top 10 and is one of Moore's best films. He should've gone out on a high note with this or FYEO instead of AVTAK.

wildboonjive

thelivingroyale wrote:

OP is great, it's in my top 10 and is one of Moore's best films. He should've gone out on a high note with this or FYEO instead of AVTAK.

I agree. I've been saying this for years. In fact, Dalton should have started one film early (though ideally not AVTAK cause the material doesn't suit him), and finished with GE, making it a 4-film run for him, while also have Moore go out on a high note.

The perpetual what if's...

00Beast

wildboonjive wrote:

thelivingroyale wrote:

OP is great, it's in my top 10 and is one of Moore's best films. He should've gone out on a high note with this or FYEO instead of AVTAK.

I agree. I've been saying this for years. In fact, Dalton should have started one film early (though ideally not AVTAK cause the material doesn't suit him), and finished with GE, making it a 4-film run for him, while also have Moore go out on a high note.

The perpetual what if's...

I would be all right with Dalton taking over AVTAK, even though I liked Roger in it, but the thought of him in GE is just not a part of my brain at all! There can only be Pierce in GE, only Pierce! If Dalton needed extra movies then there was plenty of time between 1989 and 1995 for him to squeeze in one or two more, in '91 and '93 possibly.

wildboonjive

00Beast wrote:

wildboonjive wrote:

thelivingroyale wrote:

OP is great, it's in my top 10 and is one of Moore's best films. He should've gone out on a high note with this or FYEO instead of AVTAK.

I agree. I've been saying this for years. In fact, Dalton should have started one film early (though ideally not AVTAK cause the material doesn't suit him), and finished with GE, making it a 4-film run for him, while also have Moore go out on a high note.

The perpetual what if's...

I would be all right with Dalton taking over AVTAK, even though I liked Roger in it, but the thought of him in GE is just not a part of my brain at all! There can only be Pierce in GE, only Pierce! If Dalton needed extra movies then there was plenty of time between 1989 and 1995 for him to squeeze in one or two more, in '91 and '93 possibly.

I hear what you're saying. I'm not the biggest Pierce fan but I concede that he had a good debut with GE. And at this point, it's difficult to disassociate him from that material. However, I think you might agree that the tone of the GE script is perfectly suited for Dalton, and certainly would have played to his strengths. I think others in this forum have expressed similar opinions if I recall.

It's an interesting point to debate.

00Beast

wildboonjive wrote:

00Beast wrote:

wildboonjive wrote:

thelivingroyale wrote:

OP is great, it's in my top 10 and is one of Moore's best films. He should've gone out on a high note with this or FYEO instead of AVTAK.

I agree. I've been saying this for years. In fact, Dalton should have started one film early (though ideally not AVTAK cause the material doesn't suit him), and finished with GE, making it a 4-film run for him, while also have Moore go out on a high note.

The perpetual what if's...

I would be all right with Dalton taking over AVTAK, even though I liked Roger in it, but the thought of him in GE is just not a part of my brain at all! There can only be Pierce in GE, only Pierce! If Dalton needed extra movies then there was plenty of time between 1989 and 1995 for him to squeeze in one or two more, in '91 and '93 possibly.

I hear what you're saying. I'm not the biggest Pierce fan but I concede that he had a good debut with GE. And at this point, it's difficult to disassociate him from that material. However, I think you might agree that the tone of the GE script is perfectly suited for Dalton, and certainly would have played to his strengths. I think others in this forum have expressed similar opinions if I recall.

It's an interesting point to debate.

Yeah, it certainly is. I like Dalton and have no problem with him being in more Bond movies, in fact I would very much have liked that, but when speaking about my favorite Bond movie, there's just no other way than Brosnan!

Had Dalton been in A View to a Kill, I would have loved to see the ending battle between his 007 and Max Zorin. What a treat that could have been!

Baltimore_007

Brosnan was in The Fourth Protocol about the time of A View to a Kill's release and he did really well in that, dark, serious, all that James Bond entails, but a total dead end on humor or light hearted moments, I think maybe he could of worked in 1985, but always insist a decade later was about the right time for a debut, he did very well in Goldeneye and I wouldn't swap him with anyone that year

Would Dalton have worked also in '85?, the thing is, Moore stayed on (a little longer than necessary) and did the film, it was a poor release overall, but in retrospect I really couldn't envisage anyone else in the part, it's been that way for as long as I can remember, I just don't think Dalton would of been appropriate for that film. He made his debut 2 years later in Daylights and I'm happy with that. Lewis Collins was another name I feel might have worked, but that time should of been maybe For Your Eyes Only, but then again, Moore did really well for that one. I suppose we can't, or shouldn't, really tamper with the Bonds and releases of years past, we can't really change anything..

Goodnight I-)

Goldeneye95

I understand everyones opinions on this thread. I enjoyed Sir Roger Moore's performance as James Bond. (Even though he was 58 when A View To A Kill was in theaters) Compare to Octopussy, the action was weak. Grace Jones way too buth for Bond Girl. Tanya Roberts was a hot Bond Girl. But she was annoying at time. A View To A Kill could have been a perfect Bond film to introduce Sir Timothy Dalton or Pierce Brosnan as James Bond. And maybe a younger Bond actor could have improved the movie. Despite flaws, A View To A Kill was still entertaining Bond film.

echo

I disagree. One of the few things that worked for me in AVTAK was the friendship between Moore and Macnee, and their characters were far from young.

Macnee's Tibbett is sorely underrated in the Bond canon. Too bad he didn't get a better film.

Baltimore_007

Macnee had one of the most ludicrous exits of any Bond characters - killed off in a carwash. Although to be fair, there was some good chemistry with Moore that year and it's one genuine reason to watch View to a Kill

Whatever was said before, I don't even know if having a younger Bond would of made much difference that year. Moore or not, it's such a lacklustre and mundane adventure and film, that they could of put anyone in and it probably wouldn't have helped much. Most characters were instantly forgettable and Sutton was just irritating. Moore simply embarrassed himself, and the franchise at the time, and it's one release that so easily slips the attention or you care little for, but we really did get back on track two years later with a great appointment in Tim Dalton who got James Bond back on it's feet once again

pachazo

If Moore wasn't in it then who would replace him? Dalton? I must admit it would be very interesting to see the results of that but TLD was such a perfect film for Dalton to kick off his Bond career that I couldn't imagine it any other way. I'm sure they would have made changes to the script but I think it would have been the same basic premise. Although the idea of Dalton's Bond going up against Chris Walken seems pretty intriguing now that I think about it.

Aziz_Fekkesh

OP was as good a send-off film for Moore as any so AVTAK definately should have been Dalton's debut--that way it would have guaranteed at least the three films he signed up for. But yes, an overhaul in script, director, and casting of the main girl would have helped immensely. And better action. And better locations. And better story etc., etc...