"Dont blow it all at once ": Die Another Day Appreciation Thread

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  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,960
    @Lancaster007, there's no 'right' or 'wrong' in opinions. I still don't understand why people don't realize that. Some love the film, some hate the film, some are mixed. It's how we feel, there is no right or wrong answer.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Even if you like DAD, and I will admit that it does have some good scenes, you can't deny that some of the "effects" are awful.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,960
    @BAIN123, absolutely not. Jinx's jump, Bond parasailing, and I know there are a whole lot more that I'm forgetting - words can't describe how horrid the effects are.
  • imranbecksimranbecks Singapore
    Posts: 984
    Yeah... The one effect that really bothered me was of Bond parasailing with the chute and hatch in Iceland... The whole effect of the waves behind Bond looked really fake and ruined the whole movie for me.

    The others weren't really that bad actually... That parasailing bit was the worse!
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    imranbecks wrote:
    Yeah... The one effect that really bothered me was of Bond parasailing with the chute and hatch in Iceland... The whole effect of the waves behind Bond looked really fake and ruined the whole movie for me.

    The others weren't really that bad actually... That parasailing bit was the worse!

    Maybe (and I agree), but if you want bad effects what about the back-projection used in YOLT, bloody awful even for 1967!
  • Posts: 5,634
    Not only that, but Doctor No, when Bond is on his way to see Ms Taro, and Connery in the next release with Daniella Bianchi when they are on the boat in Venice and inspecting the film reel, may have been in Goldfinger too in Switzerland when Bond has an 'accident' with one of the Masterson sisters too from what I remember, looks damn silly sometimes, but excuses can be made for the earliest releases

    This thread may well go on until the end of time, but I was thinking about it recently, albeit for a short time, and is DAD really as bad as people believe? I really am no fan of it, but some of the things and references that Brosnan said were brought to the fore recently, and do deserve attention, very Fleming like as mentioned, but even some sporadic stand out lines cannot save an overall abomination of a release. It has a very good opening in North Korea, but once the awful crap Madonna intro kicks off, it's downhill all the way apart from some good action bits here and there, such as the sword fight with Graves. I can't stand the Berry Jinx character, too damn annoying, stupid CGI sequences, as stated, dull and uninteresting ending and the Invisible Car idea speaks for itself. Brosnan was not too bad a Bond, it's a shame he had to depart from the series with this poor release to his name
  • Posts: 11,189
    This thread may well go on until the end of time, but I was thinking about it recently, albeit for a short time, and is DAD really as bad as people believe?

    As a whole I don't think it's quite as bad as some people say. There are worst films out there.

    DAD does have a few decent scenes but, lets face it, the film has some terrible ones too. When I last watched a bit of it I realised just how bad Halle Berry actually is (I knew she was bad before but this viewing confirmed it).

    She acts like it's her movie rather than Bond's. Wai Lin in TND was also an "action herorine" but actually seemed a bit more likeable and err...symathetic. With Jinx in DAD it was like the producers were gearing her up for the spin-off film that never happened.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,960
    @BAIN123, I was young at the time, so I could be recalling this incorrectly, but I do believe they had wanted a Jinx spin-off after the film was released. I thought I read that in a 'TV Guide' magazine or something, not sure. Either way, I wasn't a fan of hers in the film whatsoever. The knife fight at the end - I used to like it - was full of over-the-top flips and moves and even cheesier lines. Halle Berry has an excellent body, but she just isn't my favorite of actresses. Only two films come to mind of hers that I recall being a huge fan of: 'Monster's Ball' and 'Things We Lost In The Fire,' both with excellent supporting casts.
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @BAIN123, I was young at the time, so I could be recalling this incorrectly, but I do believe they had wanted a Jinx spin-off after the film was released. I thought I read that in a 'TV Guide' magazine or something, not sure. Either way, I wasn't a fan of hers in the film whatsoever. The knife fight at the end - I used to like it - was full of over-the-top flips and moves and even cheesier lines. Halle Berry has an excellent body, but she just isn't my favorite of actresses. Only two films come to mind of hers that I recall being a huge fan of: 'Monster's Ball' and 'Things We Lost In The Fire,' both with excellent supporting casts.

    Yes, Creasy, they were going to make a spin-off, apparently an origin story, thankfully this got dropped and the team ended up doing the Bond origin in CR. I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds the Jinx character really bloody annoying, and as for trying to imitate UA coming out of the water, forget it. A hideous sequence with some real embarrassing lines…and, no, I'm not going to quote them!
  • Posts: 5,634
    'Ornithologist....now there's a mouthful... Yikes.. 8-|

    It's where Fleming got the name for the character from, but I just didn't like it in that movie, especially with the Berry character
  • Posts: 4,762
    I do think that Die Another Day gets ribbed and hounded unnecessarily often times. I do understand that there is incredibly cheesy and wince-worthy dialogue, stemming from Jinx, Zao, and Gustav Graves, and I realize that the special effects are quite lame, but I find it to be very entertaining. Now that should be enough for anyone, and it certainly is for me. Now because of the previously mentioned drawbacks which do so heavily plague an otherwise terrific movie, it is not a part of my top ten, but it is a part of my top fifteen, and very deserving for it. The action is incredibly entertaining and engaging, and is easily the best asset to DAD's name. The second is Pierce Brosnan as 007, Judi Dench as M, and Rosamund Pike as Miranda Frost. These three characters really make the movie shine more than all the others I believe. Some of the greatest scenes in the movie come from these three, like when M interrogates Bond in the hospital room, or when Miranda is revealed as the traitor. Another plus for DAD is the use of the locations, which make the movie very Bondish and dazzling, like the Cuban beaches and the arctic wasteland of Iceland. Still another plus could be found in David Arnold's soundtrack, which I've come to like in recent viewings of the movie. It really is a shame that most people hate DAD; I don't think it's that bad honestly.
  • Posts: 5,634
    I just find it unwatchable most of the time, as is A View to a Kill or Diamonds are Forever for example. Yes, it has moments or redeeming features of quality but the sum total is a major disappointment, quite dull also. I don't know why they had to kill off the Vlad character, he did no harm to anybody, but his exit is genuinely amusing. The whole plot, or idea, of Toby Stephens is Colonel Moon/Gustav Graves may be a bit confusing for younger audiences. I don't pay too much attention to this release anymore, the ending with the awful Berry character, having Diamonds picked out of her navel, to more cheesy dialog, can be too much to bear in silence sometimes I've often felt, but at least it signals the end of the movie..
  • imranbecksimranbecks Singapore
    Posts: 984
    Movie wasn't very good, together with a bad ending.. And the worst part of it all I guess was that the movie turned out to be Pierce Brosnan's final movie as Bond. Funny thing was that at the time it was released, no one had even thought it was going to be his last...
  • Posts: 5,634
    It would of been largely inappropriate if he had continued after 2002. The Signs were there for me...

    Ask yourself though, who would you rather of seen in Casino Royale?, Craig or Brosnan

    No disrespect to the Irishman, but his time as 007 had simply passed by then, we needed a younger guy to take over and get things off and running again, just as with Dalton in 1987
  • Posts: 4,762
    It would of been largely inappropriate if he had continued after 2002. The Signs were there for me...

    Ask yourself though, who would you rather of seen in Casino Royale?, Craig or Brosnan

    No disrespect to the Irishman, but his time as 007 had simply passed by then, we needed a younger guy to take over and get things off and running again, just as with Dalton in 1987

    Oh I so wish Brosnan had been in Casino Royale! How great that would have been!
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @Lancaster007, there's no 'right' or 'wrong' in opinions. I still don't understand why people don't realize that. Some love the film, some hate the film, some are mixed. It's how we feel, there is no right or wrong answer.

    I agree Creasy, I find it a bit odd that some people get so worked up about other peoples choices and opions, and if we all liked or hated the same things there wouldn't be so much variety in the films and there would be no need for discussions like these. No matter how bad parts of a Bond film are, I will still watch because its Bond. Looking forward to the blu-ray release and going through them all…again! Happy viewing.
  • Posts: 12,837
    I wouldn't want Brosnan in CR (too old), but one or two more down to earth films from him would've been amazing.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    quote="BAIN123"]Nothing wrong with Mr Bean :p [/quote]

    I take it thats a joke sir? If not then you are next to be taken out back with the luger (that is a joke by the way Creasy47).
    00Beast wrote:
    I do understand that there is incredibly cheesy and wince-worthy dialogue, stemming from Jinx, Zao, and Gustav Graves, and I realize that the special effects are quite lame, but I find it to be very entertaining. Now that should be enough for anyone, and it certainly is for me.....

    The action is incredibly entertaining and engaging, and is easily the best asset to DAD's name...

    Still another plus could be found in David Arnold's soundtrack, which I've come to like in recent viewings of the movie. It really is a shame that most people hate DAD; I don't think it's that bad honestly.

    I think we've wandered off the topic somewhat with most people saying whats bad about DAD so good to see 00Beast attempting to get us back on track. Its just a shame hes so wide of the mark.

    How he can say that any line that Jinx spews forth is anything other than pissing all over Fleming and the character of Bond is a mystery. By his reasoning then from 'Yo Mama' to the point Bond surfs the tsunami is fabulously entertaining comprising as it does of plenty of 'incredibly cheesy and wince-worthy dialogue, stemming from Jinx, Zao, and Gustav Graves' and special effects which are 'quite lame' which in his book is all fine.
    00Beast wrote:
    The action is incredibly entertaining and engaging, and is easily the best asset to DAD's name...

    The initial impressive surfing stunt is the best action in the film but from there its pretty much a constant downhill trajectory.

    The hovercraft chase and swordfight are no more than decent with Vic Armstrong on autopilot, and the only other saving grace is the stunt driving which is excellent amid the exciting ice setting. The car chase is ruined however by a tedious over emphasis on gadgets - even the villains car has them FFS.

    The last hour can practically be ignored in the pantheon of Bondian action as, car chase apart, its entirely CGI. 00Beast might call this entertaining and engaging but for me it’s a travesty to the work of people like Bob Simmons, George Leech, Martin Grace, Dickie Graydon, Remi Julienne, BJ Worth and Rick Sylvester who made sure that Bond was the established brand leader and not a shoddy Transformers knock off.

    I wouldn't want Brosnan in CR (too old), but one or two more down to earth films from him would've been amazing.

    I agree with this. I like CR just the way it is but I think Brozza deserved a better send off than this as none of it was his fault and he gives possibly his best performance in DAD. It seems like Babs and MGW made a scapegoat of him when they realised what a pile of crap DAD was when the fault should be laid squarely on their shoulders.
  • edited July 2012 Posts: 11,189
    @Wizard. Nope, there's nothing wrong with Mr Bean. Very funny and starring a very talanted physical comedy actor (I draw the line at Johnny English though). Just the other week, before I was meant to have a filling at the dentist, I was watching the "Dentist sketch to calm my nerves and "LOL'd" the entire time.

    Regarding DAD didn't you once say that the people in the cinema next to you were laughing? :))

    I think one thing that shocked me is that they had the nerve to put some of the lousey dialogue ("Now there's a mouthful" and "Yo Mamma") in the bloomin' trailer. The producers obviously thought they were making a masterpiece.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2012 Posts: 15,713
    Look, there is a big difference between ranking films by 'cinematic greatness' and by 'personal preference'. Despite what most say here, it is perfectly acceptable to have DAD as one's favorite film... because that's all up to personal preference. Mind you, 'favorite film' doesn't necesserily mean 'best film'. No one here is saying DAD is the greatest film in the franchise.... but merely as 'my favorite film'. Everyone agrees that CR is a better made film than DAD... but it is perfectly ok to prefer DAD to CR, to be more entertained by DAD than CR. If everyone ranked films by their cinematic greatness, it would be pretty boring as everyone would have the same movies and the top and at the bottom. Ranking films by personal preference is much more subjective, thus much more interesting.

    If we all ranked films by how well-made they are, everyone would have OHMSS, FRWL, TLD, CR at the top, and DAF, DAD, MR and TMWTGG at the bottom, because that's how it is. But that doesn't mean someone can't prefer MR to OHMSS, or DAF to FRWL. If @Murdock ranks DAD at #6, he isn't saying 'this is a greater film than CR or OHMSS or FRWL', but merely 'I like DAD more than CR, OHMSS and FRWL'.

    If someone said 'DAD is a better made film than CR'.... then you guys can insult and call him crazy... but if that someone said 'I prefer DAD to CR'... there's nothing to be said other than 'I disagree', because that is his own personal opinion.
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    'favorite film' doesn't necessarily mean 'best film'.

    Have to agree. I have a lot of favourite films that are not really best, but I enjoy them.
  • Posts: 11,189
    'favorite film' doesn't necessarily mean 'best film'.

    Have to agree. I have a lot of favourite films that are not really best, but I enjoy them.

    You're right. GE is one of my "favourites" but I wouldn't call it the "best".
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    BAIN123 wrote:
    @Wizard. Nope, there's nothing wrong with Mr Bean. Very funny and starring a very talanted physical comedy actor (I draw the line at Johnny English though). Just the other week, before I was meant to have a filling at the dentist, I was watching the "Dentist sketch to calm my nerves and "LOL'd" the entire time.


    Mr Bean is extremely poor. Its infuriating that he is only known for this globally when its not even as good as Blackadder 1 which is pretty average. Most people outside the UK havent even heard of Blackadder which in series 2 and 3 (less so 4) is up there with the greatest comedies of all time.

    BAIN123 wrote:
    Regarding DAD didn't you once say that the people in the cinema next to you were laughing? :))

    Yeah but not in a good way.
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I think one thing that shocked me is that they had the nerve to put some of the lousey dialogue ("Now there's a mouthful" and "Yo Mamma") in the bloomin' trailer. The producers obviously thought they were making a masterpiece.

    Someone mentioned a few weeks back (it might have been you actually) that the DVD commentary is hilarious at the end where MGW and Tamahori congratulate themseleves like theve just made Citizen Kane.
    Look, there is a big difference between ranking films by 'cinematic greatness' and by 'personal preference'. Despite what most say here, it is perfectly acceptable to have DAD as one's favorite film... because that's all up to personal preference. Mind you, 'favorite film' doesn't necesserily mean 'best film'. No one here is saying DAD is the greatest film in the franchise.... but merely as 'my favorite film'. Everyone agrees that CR is a better made film than DAD... but it is perfectly ok to prefer DAD to CR, to be more entertained by DAD than CR. If everyone ranked films by their cinematic greatness, it would be pretty boring as everyone would have the same movies and the top and at the bottom. Ranking films by personal preference is much more subjective, thus much more interesting.

    If we all ranked films by how well-made they are, everyone would have OHMSS, FRWL, TLD, CR at the top, and DAF, DAD, MR and TMWTGG at the bottom, because that's how it is. But that doesn't mean someone can't prefer MR to OHMSS, or DAF to FRWL. If @Murdock ranks DAD at #6, he isn't saying 'this is a greater film than CR or OHMSS or FRWL', but merely 'I like DAD more than CR, OHMSS and FRWL'.

    If someone said 'DAD is a better made film than CR'.... then you guys can insult and call him crazy... but if that someone said 'I prefer DAD to CR'... there's nothing to be said other than 'I disagree', because that is his own personal opinion.

    This is a somewhat flawed argument. MR whatever you think about it is an exceptionally well made film that got an oscar nomination for its effects (dont think DAD came anywhere near that shortlist!)
    Most Michael Bay films are competently made but that doesnt stop them being dross.
    DAD is technically very well made, the parasurfing scene apart, so when you say that its not ‘well made’ do you mean stuff like the script and the acting? Seems strange that your list of what is commonly held to be the best films tallies with the ones you consider to be 'well made' as does your list of ones that are 'not well made'. Not arguing with these choices on merit but theres no way DAD or MR are any more poorly made than FRWL and OHMSS from a technical standpoint. You seem to be classing 'well made' rather subjectively to me.

    Just because people are entitled to their opinion doesn’t mean they are not wrong. We shouldnt be scared to point people in the right direction by telling them how wrong they are just because we are petrified of 'causing offence'. People are quite welcome to argue DAD is the greatest film of all time if they want but the rest of us shouldnt have to just accept it rather than tear them apart into them because we dont want to upset them.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,713
    Fine @TheWizardofIce. Is DAD a cinematic masterpiece ? Is Johnny English a cinematic masterpiece ? Is Diamonds Are Forever a cinematic masterpiece ?

    In the same way : Is Schindler's List a cinematic masterpiece ? Or Shawshank Redemption ? Or The Godfather ?

    If you told me that Schindler's List was a dud, everyone would laugh at you. If you said 'I don't like Schindler's List', people would respect you, but disagree with you as well.
  • edited July 2012 Posts: 12,837
    Off topic I know, but I thought I'd give my opinion on this. It's no Blackadder but I do like Mr Bean, Mr Beans holiday wasn't a terrible film either. Johnny English 1 was decent entertainment. 2nd one was pretty crap. Atkinson is still a legend whatever he's in.

    Here's him being Mr Bean in real life.



    Highlight of the race for me.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,713
    That was when Shamilton hit Massa for the millionth time no ? :))
  • edited July 2012 Posts: 12,837
    That was when Shamilton hit Massa for the millionth time no ? :))

    Yep.

    I think Atkinson is pretty big on cars, and that's why he was invited there.
  • QsAssistantQsAssistant All those moments lost in time... like tears in rain
    Posts: 1,812
    00Beast wrote:
    I do think that Die Another Day gets ribbed and hounded unnecessarily often times. I do understand that there is incredibly cheesy and wince-worthy dialogue, stemming from Jinx, Zao, and Gustav Graves, and I realize that the special effects are quite lame, but I find it to be very entertaining. Now that should be enough for anyone, and it certainly is for me. Now because of the previously mentioned drawbacks which do so heavily plague an otherwise terrific movie, it is not a part of my top ten, but it is a part of my top fifteen, and very deserving for it. The action is incredibly entertaining and engaging, and is easily the best asset to DAD's name. The second is Pierce Brosnan as 007, Judi Dench as M, and Rosamund Pike as Miranda Frost. These three characters really make the movie shine more than all the others I believe. Some of the greatest scenes in the movie come from these three, like when M interrogates Bond in the hospital room, or when Miranda is revealed as the traitor. Another plus for DAD is the use of the locations, which make the movie very Bondish and dazzling, like the Cuban beaches and the arctic wasteland of Iceland. Still another plus could be found in David Arnold's soundtrack, which I've come to like in recent viewings of the movie. It really is a shame that most people hate DAD; I don't think it's that bad honestly.

    You hit the nail on the head! I honestly think that a lot of people bash it because they just want something to bash, or they just "jump on the band wagon" you might say... unfortunatly it's towards a movie that is pretty decent and nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be.
    I find it funny that haters will go as far as finding little things in the movie to bash, just to bring it down more. Example: Madonna's two minute cameo... who cares, she's in it for such a short time I forget she's there. BUT, I will admit that it has it's faults, like most Bond movies. The CGI was pretty bad, but not bad enough to ruin this movie for me.
    This movie is pretty good and while it's not in my top ten it's certainly NOT in my bottom five.
  • Posts: 12,837
    The thing about DAD is, people like to think it was panned and everybody hated it, it actually wasn't. It got mixed and some good reviews, 59% on Rotten Tomatoes isn't terrible. It's only really people on sites like this who make out it's the worst thing to ever walk the earth (and this is coming from somebody who has it second to last on his list).
  • Posts: 266
    The thing about DAD is, people like to think it was panned and everybody hated it, it actually wasn't. It got mixed and some good reviews, 59% on Rotten Tomatoes isn't terrible. It's only really people on sites like this who make out it's the worst thing to ever walk the earth (and this is coming from somebody who has it second to last on his list).

    I remember when DAD come out i was 21 years old and i collected empire magazine at the time, and they gave it 4 stars out of 5, it got slightly more favourable reviews than both TND and TWINE. I still like it, sure it has flaws like everyone has said but i find myself watching it quite a bit, i think the pacing is quite good and IMO i find it has re-watchability. This is coming from someone who says its their least favourite bond film but i still enjoy it, i put it in the bracket of the OTT fun bond films like YOLT,TSWLM and MR.
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