"Dont blow it all at once ": Die Another Day Appreciation Thread

1484951535470

Comments

  • Posts: 7,430
    I think I beat you all! Being Irish, the whole 'Brosnan was born to play Bond' really got on my nerves, and I wrote to several newspapers taking issue with such articles! This when he signed up for TLD! I was relieved when he didn't get the part (Thank you MTM Productions!!) When LTK didn't do as well as hoped, those same articles appeared! I wrote even more annoyed letters, especially when Dalton turned out so brilliantly! When he left and they finally brought Brossa in, it was with despair that I queued with others to see GE, I knew he would be rubbish, and I was right! I still kept going to following films, and I fought small consolations, a couple of good castings (Schiavelli, Marceau and Dench) , Kleinmans titles, Arnolds music. But leaving DAD, there was nothing. It was a horror show! Nothing could be worse than this! My joy at Brossas dumping and Craigs hiring was immense!
  • edited August 2016 Posts: 11,425
    I had a very similar experience, without the letter writing.

    Glad to hear someone else shares my view that GE is a pile of steaming mess. Literally never understood why so many seemingly sane members on here seem to idolise it.

    I can only assume it's an age thing and somehow bizarrely related to the success of the computer game.

    GE is dire from start to finish IMO. And that score... Makes you want to gouge your ears out.

    DAD was an entirely predictable end to an utterly abysmal chapter in Bond history.
  • edited August 2016 Posts: 11,189
    I could quite easily recite ALL of Goldeneye's dialogue on command I've seen it that much.

    It's always been a favourite for me.

    Eventhough it has its flaws, its still got lots of positive aspects (Isabella Scoropco is great, Judi Dench as M is great, Gotfried John is great, Samantha Bond is great, Famke Janssen is great and Robbie Coltrane is great).

    ...and I own the score on cd.

    I will admit that aspects of it don't hold up so well. Some of the dialogue is pretty cheesy and the models/sets look more obvious now than they ever did. Alec Trevelyan is also a very underwritten character.

    That said, I do think that the action and most of the performances are good. It's a lot better than Brozza's other films.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    And Brosnan could never deliver the lines as well as Connery or Moore, who were more 'natural' performing them.

    The Bond/Fatima version of that scene in NSNA is played so much better and more natural. I can attest in the cinema the audience loved the "but my Martini's still dry".
    Connery is THE MAN. Pierce, in DAD with Jinx just comes off unfortunately as sleazy.
    Even the "Christmas comes once a year" line makes Pierce come off as sleazy/creepy whereas had the 57 year old Moore said something like that in AVTAK, he could make the delivery funny, and himself still be likable.

    Yes. 100% agree.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Getafix wrote: »
    I had a very similar experience, without the letter writing.

    Glad to hear someone else shares my view that GE is a pile of steaming mess. Literally never understood why so many seemingly sane members on here seem to idolise it.

    I can only assume it's an age thing and somehow bizarrely related to the success of the computer game.

    GE is dire from start to finish IMO. And that score... Makes you want to gouge your ears out.

    DAD was an entirely predictable end to an utterly abysmal chapter in Bond history.

    I think Brosnan was just 'ok' and the worst of an excellent. bunch who have played 007 thus far.

    I too literally never understood why so many members on here seem to idolise GE. I don't think it's bad, just very average. Brosnan's performance is satisfactory before it declined film by film. The score of GE is awful (bar the gunbarrel sequence and the tank chase). The tone is slightly darker (which I like) and the cinematography impressive. But it's still all very.....well........ 'middle of the road'.
  • Posts: 11,189
    suavejmf wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    And Brosnan could never deliver the lines as well as Connery or Moore, who were more 'natural' performing them.

    The Bond/Fatima version of that scene in NSNA is played so much better and more natural. I can attest in the cinema the audience loved the "but my Martini's still dry".
    Connery is THE MAN. Pierce, in DAD with Jinx just comes off unfortunately as sleazy.
    Even the "Christmas comes once a year" line makes Pierce come off as sleazy/creepy whereas had the 57 year old Moore said something like that in AVTAK, he could make the delivery funny, and himself still be likable.

    Yes. 100% agree.

    I cringed at that line when I first heard it. To me it just sounded cheesy.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Nothing from Connery is cheesy in my book.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I could quite easily recite ALL of Goldeneye's dialogue on command I've seen it that much.

    It's always been a favourite for me.

    Eventhough it has its flaws, its still got lots of positive aspects (Isabella Scoropco is great, Judi Dench as M is great, Gotfried John is great, Samantha Bond is great, Famke Janssen is great and Robbie Coltrane is great).

    ...and I own the score on cd.

    I will admit that aspects of it don't hold up so well. Some of the dialogue is pretty cheesy and the models/sets look more obvious now than they ever did. Alec Trevelyan is also a very underwritten character.

    That said, I do think that the action and most of the performances are good. It's a lot better than Brozza's other films.

    When my wife pointed out that Natalya seemed to go several days without changing her clothes it put me off her a little. Alec said she tasted of strawberries but somehow I doubt it.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Ha ha ha ha.
  • Posts: 11,189
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Nothing from Connery is cheesy in my book.

    That line is.

    Quite a few lines are actually:

    The massage scene:
    "Oh I know OF him (Largo) I know he owns many beautiful things"

    I wonder if he's talking about Domino it's so subtle. Piss off Sean.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2016 Posts: 23,883
    We really need an actor who can deliver lines like that again, with the same understated, 'roll off the tongue' assuredness. We also need writing with that level of quality again too.

    I would insist that a prospective writer be forced to watch the first 4 Bond films (and particularly the Terence Young trio) on loop for a while in a closed room before getting to work.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    NicNac wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I could quite easily recite ALL of Goldeneye's dialogue on command I've seen it that much.

    It's always been a favourite for me.

    Eventhough it has its flaws, its still got lots of positive aspects (Isabella Scoropco is great, Judi Dench as M is great, Gotfried John is great, Samantha Bond is great, Famke Janssen is great and Robbie Coltrane is great).

    ...and I own the score on cd.

    I will admit that aspects of it don't hold up so well. Some of the dialogue is pretty cheesy and the models/sets look more obvious now than they ever did. Alec Trevelyan is also a very underwritten character.

    That said, I do think that the action and most of the performances are good. It's a lot better than Brozza's other films.

    When my wife pointed out that Natalya seemed to go several days without changing her clothes it put me off her a little. Alec said she tasted of strawberries but somehow I doubt it.

    Excellent point.

    Judging from where Severnaya is on the map it must have taken her a good 4 or 5 days on the train (which I know from experience have their own special aroma after about 12 hours) to get to St P and then shes collared by Xenia and held captive for say another day? Even if she got the chance to have a shower when she was in the cell those clothes are still going to be reeking.

    I still would though.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    That isn't a bad idea @bondjames. Instead of going back to Fleming, go back to Terence Young and get a feel for the dialogue in those early films.
  • edited August 2016 Posts: 676
    There's a troubling moment in the GoldenEye commentary track featuring Campbell and Wilson after Xenia dies and Brosnan says "She always did enjoy a good squeeze." Campbell and Wilson both seem slightly embarrassed by the line, calling it a "groaner," saying that they went back and forth on whether to cut the line because it was so bad. But they ultimately left it in because people laugh at and "expect" groaners in a Bond film.

    Really, what's the best you can say about this line? "Oh that was terrible. But come on, it's a Bond movie. They've always been like this." People say the same thing whenever the series is disappointing and embarrassing. For example, Spectre. Bond destroys an entire compound with a couple bullets and the useless female lead is constantly taken captive? "Well, that's just what Bond films are like. This is all you can expect."

    No, not all Bond films are like that, and although audiences might expect bullshit, nobody actually wants it. When critics or audiences shrug and say "eh, it's just a Bond film," I have to wonder if they actually enjoy the films, or if they just consider Bond the celluloid equivalent of a meal at McDonald's.

    All of this to say that appealing to the lowest common denominator is a stupid way to make a movie. This attitude informed a few moments in GE... And then this attitude blossomed as Brosnan's films continued and finally spawned an entire film in Die Another Day. Which, along with TWINE, was an insidious event in the world of Bond. Like it or not, DAD and TWINE are now considered "Bond" to some people. Those films brought Bond to a new low of crassness, sleaziness, gimmickry and series self-cannibalism. Let's hope the films never go back there again.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Yes I remember that moment from the DVD commentary though to be honest I don't mind that line too much. The series has had worse.

    As I said before, I think SP had a few moments that echoed that aspect of self-parody too.

    I still remember cringing during the car chase when New York New York came on - an old joke that's been done to death in other films already.

  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Nothing from Connery is cheesy in my book.

    That line is.

    Quite a few lines are actually:

    The massage scene:
    "Oh I know OF him (Largo) I know he owns many beautiful things"

    I wonder if he's talking about Domino it's so subtle. Piss off Sean.

    I think Connery has the charm to pull off all the 'cheesy lines' as does Moore.
  • Posts: 11,189
    suavejmf wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Nothing from Connery is cheesy in my book.

    That line is.

    Quite a few lines are actually:

    The massage scene:
    "Oh I know OF him (Largo) I know he owns many beautiful things"

    I wonder if he's talking about Domino it's so subtle. Piss off Sean.

    I think Connery has the charm to pull off all the 'cheesy lines' as does Moore.

    I still think they came off as corny in NSNA.

    You wouldn't have got that sort of line in an early Connery film.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Each to their own. As you can tell I'm pro Connery....he can do no wrong as Bond in my book....cheese or not.
  • Posts: 11,189
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Each to their own. As you can tell I'm pro Connery....he can do no wrong as Bond in my book....cheese or not.

    I do remember thinking he was acting like an ageing dad when I was watching NSNA. Saying stuff that old fat men would find hilarious.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    He's better shape in NSNA than DAF and still believable as a top shagger.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    suavejmf wrote: »
    He's in better shape in NSNA than DAF and still believable as a top shagger.

  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Nit picking? Fair comment actingwise.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    To be honest, I don't give a toss what critics think of Bond.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    Wasn't this thread once about DAD?

    I must say that I enjoy much of the other three Brosnan films and think that they are unfairly treated since we have a new Bond for a decade now. I think that both GE and TWINE had many good ideas that are actually better executed than in some Craig films that followed these ideas. Especially Skyfall enormously borrows from GE and TWINE and I always found that despite the better cinematography and the good acting in Skyfall the plot is badly developed. Silva's motivation is completely unclear and feels forced to me. Trevelian's as well as Elektra's motivations are much more feasible and they are better integrated in the main plot. However, people here tend to reduce the quality of a Bond film to the abandonment of bad one liners and silly jokes. I personally care more about interesting plot elements, plot twist, charismatic viallains or allies.
  • Milovy wrote: »
    There's a troubling moment in the GoldenEye commentary track featuring Campbell and Wilson after Xenia dies and Brosnan says "She always did enjoy a good squeeze." Campbell and Wilson both seem slightly embarrassed by the line, calling it a "groaner," saying that they went back and forth on whether to cut the line because it was so bad. But they ultimately left it in because people laugh at and "expect" groaners in a Bond film.

    Really, what's the best you can say about this line? "Oh that was terrible. But come on, it's a Bond movie. They've always been like this." People say the same thing whenever the series is disappointing and embarrassing. For example, Spectre. Bond destroys an entire compound with a couple bullets and the useless female lead is constantly taken captive? "Well, that's just what Bond films are like. This is all you can expect."

    No, not all Bond films are like that, and although audiences might expect bullshit, nobody actually wants it. When critics or audiences shrug and say "eh, it's just a Bond film," I have to wonder if they actually enjoy the films, or if they just consider Bond the celluloid equivalent of a meal at McDonald's.

    All of this to say that appealing to the lowest common denominator is a stupid way to make a movie. This attitude informed a few moments in GE... And then this attitude blossomed as Brosnan's films continued and finally spawned an entire film in Die Another Day. Which, along with TWINE, was an insidious event in the world of Bond. Like it or not, DAD and TWINE are now considered "Bond" to some people. Those films brought Bond to a new low of crassness, sleaziness, gimmickry and series self-cannibalism. Let's hope the films never go back there again.

    But that is one of my absolute favourite lines from a Bond film. Ever. I disagree. I don't see the self-cannibalism.
  • Posts: 4,325
    Milovy wrote: »
    There's a troubling moment in the GoldenEye commentary track featuring Campbell and Wilson after Xenia dies and Brosnan says "She always did enjoy a good squeeze." Campbell and Wilson both seem slightly embarrassed by the line, calling it a "groaner," saying that they went back and forth on whether to cut the line because it was so bad. But they ultimately left it in because people laugh at and "expect" groaners in a Bond film.

    Really, what's the best you can say about this line? "Oh that was terrible. But come on, it's a Bond movie. They've always been like this." People say the same thing whenever the series is disappointing and embarrassing. For example, Spectre. Bond destroys an entire compound with a couple bullets and the useless female lead is constantly taken captive? "Well, that's just what Bond films are like. This is all you can expect."

    No, not all Bond films are like that, and although audiences might expect bullshit, nobody actually wants it. When critics or audiences shrug and say "eh, it's just a Bond film," I have to wonder if they actually enjoy the films, or if they just consider Bond the celluloid equivalent of a meal at McDonald's.

    All of this to say that appealing to the lowest common denominator is a stupid way to make a movie. This attitude informed a few moments in GE... And then this attitude blossomed as Brosnan's films continued and finally spawned an entire film in Die Another Day. Which, along with TWINE, was an insidious event in the world of Bond. Like it or not, DAD and TWINE are now considered "Bond" to some people. Those films brought Bond to a new low of crassness, sleaziness, gimmickry and series self-cannibalism. Let's hope the films never go back there again.

    But that is one of my absolute favourite lines from a Bond film. Ever. I disagree. I don't see the self-cannibalism.

    I agree it's a great line.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I don't mind the line either. The series has had a lot worse. But I agree that the Brosnan films seemed to deliberately make the quips/humorous lines intentionally cheesy.

    "Do you know how to disarm the weapon?"
    "I suppose that depends on what kind of weapon you're talking about disarming".
  • Posts: 4,617
    bondjames wrote: »
    We really need an actor who can deliver lines like that again, with the same understated, 'roll off the tongue' assuredness. We also need writing with that level of quality again too.

    I would insist that a prospective writer be forced to watch the first 4 Bond films (and particularly the Terence Young trio) on loop for a while in a closed room before getting to work.

    It sounds weird but when coming up with new dialogue, the trick is to imagine SC saying the line. If it sounds right, then it fits the TY era. If you cant imagine him saying the line (and there is so much dialogue within the Bond franchise that SC would never say), then its no good. It is possible to go back to the feel of the TY era without going back in time and putting Bond back in the 60s
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,722
    I'm about to embark on a Brosnan reappraisal course. I watch GE every now and then but the other three - especially DAD - I hardly ever watch. So I'm going to watch TWINE and DAD back to back and really see what I think about them after so many years. I haven't seen either of them since 2012 I think (when I bought the 50th anniversary blu ray set I watched all existing 22 films in sequence) So I think a genuine, sincere critical watch will be order. Looking forward to it.
  • Posts: 11,425
    I'm about to embark on a Brosnan reappraisal course. I watch GE every now and then but the other three - especially DAD - I hardly ever watch. So I'm going to watch TWINE and DAD back to back and really see what I think about them after so many years. I haven't seen either of them since 2012 I think (when I bought the 50th anniversary blu ray set I watched all existing 22 films in sequence) So I think a genuine, sincere critical watch will be order. Looking forward to it.

    Good luck - make sure you've got your pain killers handy you'll need them!
Sign In or Register to comment.