"Dont blow it all at once ": Die Another Day Appreciation Thread

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  • Posts: 11,189
    An "irresistible cocktail"? Pah. What BS. Rog had his hits and misses but his era was hardly golden age cinema.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Ow...come on chaps....both Sir Rog and Brosnan had their good and bad moments...we are looking at the films from the professsional critic and Bond fan view....
  • Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    An "irresistible cocktail"? Pah. What BS. Rog had his hits and misses but his era was hardly golden age cinema.

    I'd rather watch any of Rog's over any Brosnan entry. Easily. Even at their lowest points, the Roger films are more entertaining and iconic than anything the Brosnan era vomited onto the screen.
  • Posts: 19,339
    I give up...may the best man win ..
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2016 Posts: 23,883
    The Sir Rog era was far more consistent in my view, although the comedic elements became more prevalent as he went on (except for FYEO which was a brake in that trajectory). Cubby may have had a lot to do with the relative consistency during his 12 yr run, but I always categorize the Moore era into two periods: the pre-Glen era and the Glen era. I much preferred the former, but OP is a class act.

    The Brosnan era appeared to be a learning experience for everyone, and it shows. The actor only got to grips with the role in his fourth film, after flailing around for the first three outings (imho), the producers appeared not to have a clue how to make a Bond film and used tropes and cliches as cover, the directors appeared to be similarly clueless, & the scores were a complete shambles (again imho - I know Arnold has his fans).

    In my view, Moore's era was far superior and it disappoints me that the two sometimes are mentioned in the same breath, but I don't lay all the blame at Brosnan's feet for this.....only some of it. The producers definitely deserve criticism as well, as do the directors.
  • Posts: 19,339
    I dont know if u can say that TND and TWINE scores and soundtracks were a complete shambles,far from it...
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2016 Posts: 23,883
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I dont know if u can say that TND and TWINE scores and soundtracks were a complete shambles,far from it...
    I can tolerate TND's score but I absolutely detest TWINE & DAD. Words can't describe my disappointment with those efforts, and I've felt that way since the films were released.

    Arnold redeemed himself with CR & QoS, but even now, mention of his possible return worries me because I truly don't want a return to the approach he took with those earlier scores.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Getafix wrote: »
    Ironically, if DAD didn't exist, Craig would most likely not have been cast as James Bond. Either DAD is replaced with another GE-level success, and Brosnan would have carried on with a 5th film, thus Craig would then be too old to be chosen. Or, Brosnan ends with TWINE, and Bond #6's casting would take place well before Craig enters EON's radar (with Layer Cake), and in this case he would also not have become Bond.

    That's the irony of this franchise. Without 'bad' decisions, EON won't course-correct the series' direction. DAD doesn't need CR to happen, but CR needed DAD to happen (in it's present form).

    Very good observation.

    Was the misery of DAD worth enduring to get CR?

    I suppose so.

    Even if DAD had only been dialled back a little instead of being a total OTT fest then they might have though we'll just carry on with Brozza as normal and now we've got the rights to CR might as well film it with him.

    Perhaps we should all be thanking Tamahori as without him maybe the Craig era wouldn't have existed at all and we'd be now debating whether a 63 year old Brozza could get away with doing one more film after looking distinctly long in the tooth in SP?


    I find it difficult to find any justification for the Brosnan era. Okay Dalton didn't break any box office records, but did they really have to reduce Bond to the level of CBeebies? The Brosnan era is not just a low point for Bond, it's a cinematic catastrophe full stop. Rog had his embarrassing moments but his films blend cheese, great action, high camp and some wonderful dramatic scenes into an irresistible cocktail. Brosnan just makes you want to bury your head in your hands and pretend it never happened.

    So, although CR was a massive step up (how could it have been anything else) I'm not sure DAD or the Brosnan era was worth it. Especially as the Craig era has gone on to be such a mixed bag itself.

    And I thought...I was critical of Brosnan :-P.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I agree that, overall the Roger era as a whole was the more professional and probably yes the more consistent, but there are moments and scenes from those films I have absolutely no time for. Some even scrape the bottom of the barrel as far as I'm concerned (Britt Eckland, the fire engine chase, Tanya Roberts et. ).
  • edited August 2016 Posts: 19,339
    bondjames wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I dont know if u can say that TND and TWINE scores and soundtracks were a complete shambles,far from it...
    I can tolerate TND's score but I absolutely detest TWINE & DAD. Words can't describe my disappointment with those efforts, and I've felt that way since the films were released.

    Arnold redeemed himself with CR & QoS, but even now, mention of his possible return worries me because I truly don't want a return to the approach he took with those earlier scores.

    That's fair enough,we are all on the same side and want the same thing...i must admit that ,no matter how well SF and SP have done,the background score is basically nothing.....thats a worry to me.

    SP needed a totally new score,based on the theme tune,that was disappointing.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2016 Posts: 23,883
    barryt007 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I dont know if u can say that TND and TWINE scores and soundtracks were a complete shambles,far from it...
    I can tolerate TND's score but I absolutely detest TWINE & DAD. Words can't describe my disappointment with those efforts, and I've felt that way since the films were released.

    Arnold redeemed himself with CR & QoS, but even now, mention of his possible return worries me because I truly don't want a return to the approach he took with those earlier scores.

    That's fair enough,we are all on the same side and want the same thing...i must admit that ,no matter how well SF and SP have done,the background score is basically nothing.....thats a worry to me.

    SP needed a totally new score,based on the theme tune,that was disappointing.
    Yes, I agree. In my view, the scores are still lacking in comparison to some of the competition, despite significant improvements having been made in other areas since the reboot. I sincerely hope that they can hire a new dynamic composer who can bring us those sweeping, dramatic sounds that Barry did so well (like Ramin Djawadi for instance), combined with better use of strings. I didn't mind Newman in SF, but his SP score was seriously lacking.

    I also agree on incorporating the title track into the score, but for that to work, I think the composer needs to be involved with the title track (perhaps not the composition like in Barry's day, but there definitely needs to be more coordination). It's the #1 thing that people seem to mention on here regarding their wishes for future scores.
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I agree that, overall the Roger era as a whole was the more professional and probably yes the more consistent, but there are moments and scenes from those films I have absolutely no time for. Some even scrape the bottom of the barrel as far as I'm concerned (Britt Eckland, the fire engine chase, Tanya Roberts et. ).
    I agree on the AVTAK moments, which I didn't enjoy at all (I'd rather watch DAD than AVTAK to be quite honest). I quite liked Britt though, especially in a bikini. There's something about her loyalty to Moore's Bond that is captivating to me.
  • Posts: 19,339
    You would rather watch DAD over AVTAK ?...ooer..
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Perhaps I'm being a bit harsh.

    However, whenever I think about putting AVTAK into the player, I always settle instead on another Moore film, most normally FYEO or OP (to get my 'Glen' Moore fix).

    I passed on both AVTAK and TWINE during my last Bondathon.
  • Posts: 19,339
    I watch AVTAK more for Christopher Walken and the Barry soundtrack..
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    The soundtrack is fantastic, no doubt. I play it in the car often, as I do all the Barry scores.
  • Posts: 19,339
    The man was a genious...after TLD the absence is sooo obvious...imo only CR comes close since,followed by TND.....
  • Posts: 11,189
    I view AVTAK these days as pretty limp, even though Barry's score is one of my absolute favourites.
  • Posts: 19,339
    You have to look at the contrast in tempos from OP to AVTAK...when i saw it at the cinema,it was like,wow Bond has his hands full in this film...
  • Posts: 11,189
    These days though I think both OP comes off better both in terms of Roger's portrayal of Bond and as a film in general.

    Watch the PTS of each and OP's comes off as far better in my view.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Oh there is no comparison...OP is waaay better ,and #6 in my ratings..i am sitting in front of a wooden replica of the movie poster as i type,and it was my first Bond film i saw at the cinema ....
  • edited August 2016 Posts: 11,189
    OP is (very) silly in places but there is a bit more life to the film.

    Up until DAD I actually now think the AVTAK fire engine scene (particularly Roger growning as he's being swung around on the ladder) is perhaps the lowest point in the series.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    At least the firetruck chase had real stunts.
  • I find the fire engine scene middling or mildly enjoyable, but it's not a low point.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    AVTAK has a good main villain in Zorin, but the film is so devoid of energy. The series was in desperate need to fresh blood in the lead, by this point. DAD has a tundra load of problems, but with the exception of the title track and Madge's cameo, it holds together up to Cuba (when Jinx shows up), better than AVTAK does on the whole. Between those two, I would rather watch DAD.
  • edited August 2016 Posts: 11,189
    At least the firetruck chase had real stunts.

    It did, but it also had tired "scraping the barrel" comedy. Roger's "smirking at his pursuers" shtick also felt tired and desperate.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    I'm indifferent to the moments of comedy- they're just "there". Yeah, we could have done without them, but the action as a whole (like I said, real stunts with real danger) and the way the scene makes good use of the streets of San Francisco holds up way better than the breathtakingly piss-poor CGI action in a film made 17 years later. Oh, and not to forget Barry's kick-ass score.
  • edited August 2016 Posts: 11,189
    I like real stunts too, but most of the action in this feels (whether they actually were or not) quite half-hearted.

    It's better than the CGI DAD crap I agree, but it's still somewhat embarrassing whenever I watch it. Particularly the awful back projection shots of Roger clowning around.

    Also, Moore's hair in that scene annoys me as he's meant to have just escaped from a fire.
  • Posts: 19,339
    I just look at AVTAK,and always have done,as Bond's final mission before he retires,it does actually help the reasoning behind it...and i fast forward to the end credits before the pervy shower scene starts..it gives Bond a good farewell..a glimpse at his last ever mission...works for me !
  • Posts: 11,189
    It's got a nostalgic quality to it. I think this mainly comes through in Barry's great score. Whenever I listen to it (the Wine With Stacy track especially) I start to reminisce.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Beautiful isnt it...that man was pure genius and class...God bless John Barry.
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