Would you forgo the Brosnan Era to add to the Dalton era?

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  • edited March 2012 Posts: 4,813
    Moore could have done TLD, but after that he would be too old.

    Moore could have also done a final film in 1989, so the 80's would be the Moore decade.

    Over on the Bond parody page, I did one of Rog in Licence to Kill- sprouting the same silly one-liners that he always did.
    Had he stuck around until LTK for real though? True, if he had stayed until TLD he may very well have been in LTK as well... Would have been pretty cool to see Roger 'out for revenge'- plus it would have been the same Felix that he had worked with in LALD. Seeing ROGER get his licence to kill revoked and going rogue?? Would have been a dream come true to see if done straight and not with the same kiddie humor that a bunch of his movies had.
    Of course, Rog would have been 61 by then. :-S

    Me personally, I want as much Dalton as I can get. He should have had OP & AVTAK.
    Rog should have left earlier, but he also should have started earlier (since I just love the guy and wouldn't want less of him)

    Too bad about that dry spell from 1989-1995. That would have solved this whole thread right there!
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,713
    Moore could have done TLD, but after that he would be too old.

    Moore could have also done a final film in 1989, so the 80's would be the Moore decade.

    Over on the Bond parody page, I did one of Rog in Licence to Kill- sprouting the same silly one-liners that he always did.
    Had he stuck around until LTK for real though? True, if he had stayed until TLD he may very well have been in LTK as well... Would have been pretty cool to see Roger 'out for revenge'- plus it would have been the same Felix that he had worked with in LALD. Seeing ROGER get his licence to kill revoked and going rogue?? Would have been a dream come true to see if done straight and not with the same kiddie humor that a bunch of his movies had.
    Of course, Rog would have been 61 by then. :-S

    Me personally, I want as much Dalton as I can get. He should have had OP & AVTAK.
    Rog should have left earlier, but he also should have started earlier (since I just love the guy and wouldn't want less of him)

    Too bad about that dry spell from 1989-1995. That would have solved this whole thread right there!

    Moore : 9 films 1973-1989
    Dalton : 5 films 1991-1999
    Brosnan : 7 films 2002-2016

  • edited March 2012 Posts: 4,813
    Brosnan starting at age 50??? I'd love more Dalton, but that may be too much... we still need Brozza when he's find of young
  • LudsLuds MIA
    Posts: 1,986
    Brosnan starting at age 50??? I'd love more Dalton, but that may be too much... we still need Brozza when he's find of young
    Why? Just go Dalton until 99 to Craig in 02 and skip the melodrama soap opera overacting entirely!
  • Posts: 4,813
    I say give GoldenEye to Dalton- TND even sets up Bond as if he was a new actor anyway. I would always want at least some Pierce
  • Posts: 11,189
    The thing is, if GE had been done with Dalton I doubt we'd have had Sean Bean, Isabella, Frankie, Samantha Bond or the tank chase (all aspects I love).
  • LudsLuds MIA
    edited March 2012 Posts: 1,986
    I say give GoldenEye to Dalton- TND even sets up Bond as if he was a new actor anyway. I would always want at least some Pierce

    OK fine then, TD until 99, then give DAD as is to Brosnan and move over to the revamp with Craig. :)
    BAIN123 wrote:
    The thing is, if GE had been done with Dalton I doubt we'd have had Sean Bean, Isabella, Frankie, Samantha Bond or the tank chase (all aspects I love).

    Why? Bean would simply not have auditioned for lead, but could very well have done for villain anyways. Isabella is forgettable, Famke was old enough for Dalton, Sam Bond could very well have been in there too, and I see no reason the tank chase would have been done another way.
  • Posts: 4,813
    BAIN123 wrote:
    The thing is, if GE had been done with Dalton I doubt we'd have had Sean Bean, Isabella, Frankie, Samantha Bond or the tank chase (all aspects I love).

    I would certainly miss all of them-- GoldenEye is very special to me for being the only Bond movie where I love all the characters.

    On the other hand though, when Dalton was still up for the part, wasn't Alan Rickman up for OO6? Maybe it would have been worth it for that!!
  • DSRDSR
    Posts: 8
    NO WAY... some of his movies did suck, but he made it bankable again. And he was the suavest of the lot, in my opinion. He could of had better fight scenes.. But then again Im glad DC showed improvement there. The madagascar fight scenes looked like a dance not a fight. I get it choreography, I used to perform for Walt Disney and had to do stage fighting. (I was Beast and had to Fight Gaston 5xs daily. Dalton might of been the best in my opinion, but he should of taken over earlier for the geriatric Moore. RM outstayed his usefulness... But I would for Purvis and Wade to go,they could of made SC look bad!!
  • edited March 2012 Posts: 11,189
    Luds wrote:
    I say give GoldenEye to Dalton- TND even sets up Bond as if he was a new actor anyway. I would always want at least some Pierce

    OK fine then, TD until 99, then give DAD as is to Brosnan and move over to the revamp with Craig. :)
    BAIN123 wrote:
    The thing is, if GE had been done with Dalton I doubt we'd have had Sean Bean, Isabella, Frankie, Samantha Bond or the tank chase (all aspects I love).

    Why? Bean would simply not have auditioned for lead, but could very well have done for villain anyways. Isabella is forgettable, Famke was old enough for Dalton, Sam Bond could very well have been in there too, and I see no reason the tank chase would have been done another way.

    Isabella is my favourite Bond girl so ur wrong right there ;) I can quote a lot of her dialogue off the top of my head. Shows how much u know. :p

    Trevelyan and Bond are meant to be round the same age aren't they so I'd have thought someone a bit closer to Dalton's age would have been cast.

    I do enjoy the tank chase as it is - despite the silly nature of it.
  • edited March 2012 Posts: 501
    I wouldn't change a thing, but the scripts of Brosnan, when it was prepared for Dalton, GE, was perfect, when it was thought for him, a shit. Why?
    We don't like Brosnan because of the films he did, but we all say that GoldenEye was quite good... Then, the major problem is the Script.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited March 2012 Posts: 15,713
    Of course Brosnan should have started at age 50 !! Just remember how great he has looked since 2002. A tough authority figure, a strong magnetic presence, and a great dose of newly acquired acting chops. Look at how great Brosnan looks in 2012... he looks younger today than Craig in QOS !! Brosnan is now a tough manly figure, but without the OTT ruggedness of Craig. So I can very well picture Brosnan playing Bond in 2002, '05, '07, '09 and '12... if he still ages well in the next few years I may even begin to wish he had been Bond in 2014. Moore, Dalton and Brosnan could well have played Bond well into their 60's.
  • 0iker0 wrote:
    I wouldn't change a thing, but the scripts of Brosnan, when it was prepared for Dalton, GE, was perfect, when it was thought for him, a shit. Why?
    We don't like Brosnan because of the films he did, but we all say that GoldenEye was quite good... Then, the major problem is the Script.
    I like GE, and think Brosnan did a solid job in it. The first Bond film for an actor is difficult, so playing it straight and not adding much is fine with me. Doing that for your next three films is another story.
  • LudsLuds MIA
    Posts: 1,986
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Isabella is my favourite Bond girl so ur wrong right there ;) I can quote a lot of her dialogue off the top of my head. Shows how much u know. :p

    Trevelyan and Bond are meant to be round the same age aren't they so I'd have thought someone a bit closer to Dalton's age would have been cast.

    I do enjoy the tank chase as it is - despite the silly nature of it.

    By all means, if you like man-voice, she can be yours! I'll take Famke ;)

    Dalton wasn't that old in 95 and an actor like Bean certainly could have been made to look a bit older, or at least within the same age range.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Man voice?? Wtf???
  • Posts: 1,082
    The only woman I can remember talking similar to a man is when Irma Bunt says "Not ground, ice".
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,713
    Luds wrote:
    By all means, if you like man-voice, she can be yours! I'll take Famke ;)

    Eh ? Scorrupco is one of the sexiest woman I've ever seen ! You must be nuts to prefer Famke to her !! ;)
  • edited March 2012 Posts: 11,189
    Luds wrote:
    By all means, if you like man-voice, she can be yours! I'll take Famke ;)

    Eh ? Scorrupco is one of the sexiest woman I've ever seen ! You must be nuts to prefer Famke to her !! ;)

    Famke is fit too but she's insane. I'd rather have a nice, attractive lady who WON'T kill me.

    Luds can take her. His flamboyant personality would go hand in hand with her's. :p
    The only woman I can remember talking similar to a man is when Irma Bunt says "Not ground, ice".

    I wouldn't say so much "man" as "robot" - reminds me of Arnie :))
  • Posts: 1,082
    BAIN123 wrote:
    :p
    The only woman I can remember talking similar to a man is when Irma Bunt says "Not ground, ice".

    I wouldn't say so much "man" as "robot" - reminds me of Arnie :))

    Lol
    :))
  • Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I do a bit bad for Dalts in a way :( He's the underdog of the Bond franchise.

    I remember someone (who was around at the time) describing the reception each actor had:

    "Connery was loved and admired
    Lazenby was neither
    Moore was loved but not admired
    Dalton was admired but not loved
    Brosnan was loved and admired
    Craig divides opinion - A LOT"

    Weren't you around at the time @Germanlady? I was too young.

    I think there is a certain amount of disinformation put around about Dalts - namely that he wasn't popular and that he was overly serious. What this actually means in the 'business lingo' of the money men is that he wasn't well known in the US. I seem to remember TLD being a pretty solid hit in the UK and generally regarded as an improvement on AVTAK. TLD also did well internationally I believe. Fortunately the US market is no longer as vital to a movie's success as it used to be and so we hopefully won't have to put up with having another Brosnan foisted on us because he is supposedly what the US public wants.

    I also think the 'darkness' aspects of Dalton's portrayal are overdone. TLD is an entertaining and often lighthearted movie, not a million miles away from the Moore era. LTK is certainly one of the more 'serious' films in the franchise, but since we never had a third Dalton film, it's impossible to say if this was intended to become the model for all future Dalton outings. I suspect that after the problems that LTK had with certificates and age ratings, they would have lightened up for Dalts 3.

    Any way, in answer to the question, yes obviously even one more Dalton film would have been preferable to the drek we were served up during Operation Brozza.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,159
    Luds wrote:
    By all means, if you like man-voice, she can be yours! I'll take Famke ;)

    Eh ? Scorrupco is one of the sexiest woman I've ever seen ! You must be nuts to prefer Famke to her !! ;)

    Famke's charms come from the hips. That splits the difference. ;-)

  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited March 2012 Posts: 15,713
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Luds wrote:
    By all means, if you like man-voice, she can be yours! I'll take Famke ;)

    Eh ? Scorrupco is one of the sexiest woman I've ever seen ! You must be nuts to prefer Famke to her !! ;)

    Famke's charms come from the hips. That splits the difference. ;-)

    I have to admit I don't notice the hips first in a woman... the visage is more important for me :)
  • edited March 2012 Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I do a bit bad for Dalts in a way :( He's the underdog of the Bond franchise.

    I remember someone (who was around at the time) describing the reception each actor had:

    "Connery was loved and admired
    Lazenby was neither
    Moore was loved but not admired
    Dalton was admired but not loved
    Brosnan was loved and admired
    Craig divides opinion - A LOT"

    Weren't you around at the time @Germanlady? I was too young.

    I think there is a certain amount of disinformation put around about Dalts - namely that he wasn't popular and that he was overly serious. What this actually means in the 'business lingo' of the money men is that he wasn't well known in the US. I seem to remember TLD being a pretty solid hit in the UK and generally regarded as an improvement on AVTAK. TLD also did well internationally I believe. Fortunately the US market is no longer as vital to a movie's success as it used to be and so we hopefully won't have to put up with having another Brosnan foisted on us because he is supposedly what the US public wants.

    I also think the 'darkness' aspects of Dalton's portrayal are overdone. TLD is an entertaining and often lighthearted movie, not a million miles away from the Moore era. LTK is certainly one of the more 'serious' films in the franchise, but since we never had a third Dalton film, it's impossible to say if this was intended to become the model for all future Dalton outings. I suspect that after the problems that LTK had with certificates and age ratings, they would have lightened up for Dalts 3.

    Any way, in answer to the question, yes obviously even one more Dalton film would have been preferable to the drek we were served up during Operation Brozza.

    I get the impression Dalton was loved more by the hardcore Bond fans than he was by wider audiences - a lot of whom who had grown up on Roger Moore. I was too young to remember first hand but it sounds like TLD was sucessful as was Dalton - though I don't get the feeling he ever set the world on fire despite what some may say.

    Daylights is indeed a solid enjoyable movie delivering the right amount of espionage action and fun. There are a few issues I have with it but overall I enjoy it.

    It was definitely Kill that seemed to ruin things for Dalton.

    Here's an extract from an interview with Graham Rye:

    OO7 seemed to heartily endorse Timothy Dalton’s Bond with many excellent issues and covers. Looking back, what do you think of the Dalton era now?

    I think it was a valiant attempt by Timothy Dalton and the filmmakers to bring Bond back down to basics, nearer to the first two films in the series. At the time I think it was certainly the best Bond film since On Her Majesty’s Secret Service, although not really in quite the same class as George Lazenby’s one shot appearance as 007. Unfortunately with Licence To Kill I think Dalton’s influence for a darker more somber Bond backfired, and led the filmmakers up the wrong path. The film also wasn’t helped by a monumentally inadequate promotional campaign that just more or less said to the public, ‘ho hum here’s another James Bond movie.’ The James Bond of Licence To Kill, for me, is neither the Bond of Ian Fleming’s novels or the accepted movie version, the latter probably being nearer the reason for the film’s cool reception. Its international distributors UIP publicized that the film had grossed over $42,553,744 in the international market place, putting it substantially ahead of all other Bond films in the series at that time in its release. But this did little to dispel the feeling that the general public at large just weren’t on the same wavelength as Timothy Dalton’s interpretation of James Bond. Regardless of what the band of faithful believe, Timothy Dalton just wasn’t popular with the everyday cinema-going public. Regularly meeting people from all walks of life, if they discover my profession the conversation usually turns to a brief summary of who they think the best James Bond actor was, almost universally, especially from men, panning Timothy Dalton in the role, with George Lazenby running a close second.


    I can enforce this. Other than one or two friends and faceless people on this forum most people I've talked to (including people old enough remember the Connery era) just didn't take to him. Even Connery has been quoted criticising him.

    Also, here's an old review of TLD from The Radio Times:

    This was Timothy Dalton's debut as 007 and it was already pretty clear that he lacked the necessary ironic touch that made the credibility-straining action seem fun rather than ridiculous. Director John Glen (making his fourth Bond, after second-unit and editing work on others) should have known better, and departed the scene along with Dalton after Licence to Kill. Although adapted from an Ian Fleming story, the plot is merely an excuse for a little globetrotting, as Bond tries to help Jeroen Krabbé's Soviet general to defect. Maryam D'Abo's Czech cellist and Joe Don Baker's arms dealer don't help much, either.
    **


    If any actor is the underdog of the Bond franchise its Dalton.

    However I do feel that, in some ways, Dalton was "too serious" in that I can't imagine him using women (i.e. sex) to get what he wanted. Of all the Bond's he came off as the least "philanderous". Would that have changed with GE? Perhaps but we'll never know. Having grown up with that film I wouldn't change it for anything.
  • edited March 2012 Posts: 501
    0iker0 wrote:
    I wouldn't change a thing, but the scripts of Brosnan, when it was prepared for Dalton, GE, was perfect, when it was thought for him, a shit. Why?
    We don't like Brosnan because of the films he did, but we all say that GoldenEye was quite good... Then, the major problem is the Script.
    I like GE, and think Brosnan did a solid job in it. The first Bond film for an actor is difficult, so playing it straight and not adding much is fine with me. Doing that for your next three films is another story.
    I think he added loads of humor after the dark LTK.
    But compare the dialoges in GoldenEye with the ones in TND... The only good line is "the empire strikes back" and as Eliot said, it's not even theirs...
  • Posts: 1,497
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Luds wrote:
    By all means, if you like man-voice, she can be yours! I'll take Famke ;)

    Eh ? Scorrupco is one of the sexiest woman I've ever seen ! You must be nuts to prefer Famke to her !! ;)

    Famke is fit too but she's insane. I'd rather have a nice, attractive lady who WON'T kill me.

    I'll take 'em both personally.
    Of course Brosnan should have started at age 50 !! Just remember how great he has looked since 2002. A tough authority figure, a strong magnetic presence, and a great dose of newly acquired acting chops.

    I see your point. Brosnan did look like he was still coming out of the 80's with his big hair in GE. He looks really refined in TWINE and DAD. Bond should always 'look' about 40 (Connery despite being 31 in DN looked about 40 already). With age comes experience, and I find Bond more convincing as an experienced spy with more years under him. Lazenby certainly looked a lot older than 28--probably late 30's and Moore could pass for about 38-40 in LALD. It's all about the demeanor.

  • LudsLuds MIA
    Posts: 1,986
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Famke is fit too but she's insane. I'd rather have a nice, attractive lady who WON'T kill me.

    Luds can take her. His flamboyant personality would go hand in hand with her's. :p

    Where do you get flamboyant? There isn't a person that is as down to earth and calls it like it is than moi! ;)

    Scorupco's looks were fine, although she certainly isn't at her best in GE. It's the hair I think.

    As for the man-voice comment, it's related to her very ogre-sounding yells.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I think Brozz probably looked his best in TND and TWINE. GE he looked a bit "waiter-y" and DAD he was ageing a bit. Nonetheless I do enjoy his performance in DAD - even if the film is pretty naff. When he says "just surving Mr Chang, just surviving" I smile :)

    As for Scorupco, during the million plus one times I've seen GE combined with all the interviews I've read/seen its never occured to me that she sounds "ogre-ish". :)) :))
  • LudsLuds MIA
    edited March 2012 Posts: 1,986
    Maybe it's the thought that a somewhat fragile-looking, petite actress (at least she looked small) like her should have a small and pleasing voice. Her voice isn't her best feature. At least not her "raised vocal" voice ;)
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,713
    Luds wrote:
    As for the man-voice comment, it's related to her very ogre-sounding yells.

    You must give me the name of your otolaryngologist !! =))
  • Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I do a bit bad for Dalts in a way :( He's the underdog of the Bond franchise.

    I remember someone (who was around at the time) describing the reception each actor had:

    "Connery was loved and admired
    Lazenby was neither
    Moore was loved but not admired
    Dalton was admired but not loved
    Brosnan was loved and admired
    Craig divides opinion - A LOT"

    Weren't you around at the time @Germanlady? I was too young.

    I think there is a certain amount of disinformation put around about Dalts - namely that he wasn't popular and that he was overly serious. What this actually means in the 'business lingo' of the money men is that he wasn't well known in the US. I seem to remember TLD being a pretty solid hit in the UK and generally regarded as an improvement on AVTAK. TLD also did well internationally I believe. Fortunately the US market is no longer as vital to a movie's success as it used to be and so we hopefully won't have to put up with having another Brosnan foisted on us because he is supposedly what the US public wants.

    I also think the 'darkness' aspects of Dalton's portrayal are overdone. TLD is an entertaining and often lighthearted movie, not a million miles away from the Moore era. LTK is certainly one of the more 'serious' films in the franchise, but since we never had a third Dalton film, it's impossible to say if this was intended to become the model for all future Dalton outings. I suspect that after the problems that LTK had with certificates and age ratings, they would have lightened up for Dalts 3.

    Any way, in answer to the question, yes obviously even one more Dalton film would have been preferable to the drek we were served up during Operation Brozza.

    I get the impression Dalton was loved more by the hardcore Bond fans than he was by wider audiences - a lot of whom who had grown up on Roger Moore. I was too young to remember first hand but it sounds like TLD was sucessful as was Dalton - though I don't get the feeling he ever set the world on fire despite what some may say.

    Daylights is indeed a solid enjoyable movie delivering the right amount of espionage action and fun. There are a few issues I have with it but overall I enjoy it.

    It was definitely Kill that seemed to ruin things for Dalton.

    Here's an extract from an interview with Graham Rye:

    OO7 seemed to heartily endorse Timothy Dalton’s Bond with many excellent issues and covers. Looking back, what do you think of the Dalton era now?

    I think it was a valiant attempt by Timothy Dalton and the filmmakers to bring Bond back down to basics, nearer to the first two films in the series. At the time I think it was certainly the best Bond film since On Her Majesty’s Secret Service, although not really in quite the same class as George Lazenby’s one shot appearance as 007. Unfortunately with Licence To Kill I think Dalton’s influence for a darker more somber Bond backfired, and led the filmmakers up the wrong path. The film also wasn’t helped by a monumentally inadequate promotional campaign that just more or less said to the public, ‘ho hum here’s another James Bond movie.’ The James Bond of Licence To Kill, for me, is neither the Bond of Ian Fleming’s novels or the accepted movie version, the latter probably being nearer the reason for the film’s cool reception. Its international distributors UIP publicized that the film had grossed over $42,553,744 in the international market place, putting it substantially ahead of all other Bond films in the series at that time in its release. But this did little to dispel the feeling that the general public at large just weren’t on the same wavelength as Timothy Dalton’s interpretation of James Bond. Regardless of what the band of faithful believe, Timothy Dalton just wasn’t popular with the everyday cinema-going public. Regularly meeting people from all walks of life, if they discover my profession the conversation usually turns to a brief summary of who they think the best James Bond actor was, almost universally, especially from men, panning Timothy Dalton in the role, with George Lazenby running a close second.


    I can enforce this. Other than one or two friends and faceless people on this forum most people I've talked to (including people old enough remember the Connery era) just didn't take to him. Even Connery has been quoted criticising him.

    Also, here's an old review of TLD from The Radio Times:

    This was Timothy Dalton's debut as 007 and it was already pretty clear that he lacked the necessary ironic touch that made the credibility-straining action seem fun rather than ridiculous. Director John Glen (making his fourth Bond, after second-unit and editing work on others) should have known better, and departed the scene along with Dalton after Licence to Kill. Although adapted from an Ian Fleming story, the plot is merely an excuse for a little globetrotting, as Bond tries to help Jeroen Krabbé's Soviet general to defect. Maryam D'Abo's Czech cellist and Joe Don Baker's arms dealer don't help much, either.
    **


    If any actor is the underdog of the Bond franchise its Dalton.

    However I do feel that, in some ways, Dalton was "too serious" in that I can't imagine him using women (i.e. sex) to get what he wanted. Of all the Bond's he came off as the least "philanderous". Would that have changed with GE? Perhaps but we'll never know. Having grown up with that film I wouldn't change it for anything.

    We can find quotes slating Connery or Moore if we look hard enough. The line from the Radio Times is hilarious, given what came later during the Brozza period - 'lacked the necessary ironic touch that made the credibility-straining action seem fun rather than ridiculous'. And are we supposed to take a throw away film review from the Radio Times seriously? TLD was a genuine hit in its time, with most critics rating Dalts pretty highly. As far as I'm aware it still remains pretty popular. LTK was for me a little off key (although it has good elements).
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