Would you forgo the Brosnan Era to add to the Dalton era?

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  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited March 2012 Posts: 15,713
    JBFan626 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    It would have been interesting to see how Dalts would have handelled it. I'll give you that. Nonetheless i still feel that without Brosnan we wouldn't have had Isabella and (perhaps) Bean.

    Dalton opposite Dench would have seemed weird too, don't ya think? But then again, maybe we would never have seen Dench in the role... :-?

    Dalton opposite Helen Mirren as M... food for thought....
  • edited March 2012 Posts: 11,189
    Dalton opposite Dench would have seemed weird too, don't ya think? But then again, maybe we would never have seen Dench in the role... :-?

    Well both are trained in Shakespeare (I think) so perhaps not. Then again can Dalton's Bond be described as a "sexist, mysoginist dinosaur"?

    I also wouldn't want to rob Dench of an actor she clearly enjoyed working with.
  • Posts: 1,497
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Dalton opposite Dench would have seemed weird too, don't ya think? But then again, maybe we would never have seen Dench in the role... :-?

    Well both are trained in Shakespeare (I think) so perhaps not. Then again can Dalton's Bond be described as a "sexist, mysoginist dinosaur"?

    Exactly my line of thought. While some don't like that line, I think it did signal an important shift in the times. It seperated GE in a way from the previous films. Plus add in the end of the Cold War. So it seems only fitting: new era, new Bond.

  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited March 2012 Posts: 13,978
    I don't think Daltons Bond be described as a "sexist, mysoginist dinosaur". But then neither can Brosnan, the uber PC Bond. For a so-called dinosaur, he seems quite content with being verbally castrated by not just M but Moneypenny too. Thank heavens EON didn't bring Gardners Q'ute character to the screen during the Brosnan years...
  • edited March 2012 Posts: 11,189
    Yeah but Brosnan did shag is evaluator and seemed to have a ball doing it. I'm not sure why but I can't see Dalton's Bond doing that.

    Also, why do fans have a problem with the M, Bond, Moneypenny stuff? The MP scene was clearly light-hearted and M says to Bond "come back alive" - indicating she still has respect for him. The scene between Bond and M in GE is a good one.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited March 2012 Posts: 15,713
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Yeah but Brosnan did shag is evaluator and seemed to have a ball doing it. I'm not sure why but I can't see Dalton's Bond doing that.

    I don't think Brosnan should be proud his first female 'conquest' in his tenure was that dreadful looking woman... dare I say she looked horrible. Dalton scored much better with the boat lady in TLD. Couldn't EON have found a better looking woman for Pierce's first conquest as Bond ?
  • Posts: 11,189
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Yeah but Brosnan did shag is evaluator and seemed to have a ball doing it. I'm not sure why but I can't see Dalton's Bond doing that.

    I don't think Brosnan should be proud his first female 'conquest' in his tenure was dreadfull looking woman... dare I saw she looked horrible. Dalton scored much better with the boat lady in TLD.

    She was fine. She was the sexually repressed librarian type but get her out of those clothes and she'd be a hottie ;)
  • Posts: 4,813
    It would have worked better for Dalton I think- that line. For Brosnan's seducing the evaluator, we had Dalton delaying his field report to have sex with that woman on the boat in TLD. Plus I definitely saw him smack MoneyPenny's ass- it was subtle but he totally did.
    Plus the bit about being a relic of the Cold War would have worked because we actually saw Dalton doing Cold War stuff. We'd be seeing the old Bond in a new element.

    On top of that, Dalton and Dench would have been a wonderful sight!
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,713
    BAIN123 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Yeah but Brosnan did shag is evaluator and seemed to have a ball doing it. I'm not sure why but I can't see Dalton's Bond doing that.

    I don't think Brosnan should be proud his first female 'conquest' in his tenure was dreadfull looking woman... dare I saw she looked horrible. Dalton scored much better with the boat lady in TLD.

    She was fine. She was the sexually repressed librarian type but get her out of those clothes and she'd be a hottie ;)

    I don't think so.... :-B
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited March 2012 Posts: 13,978
    I wouldn't call Caroline ugly, just bland. And while we're on the topic of GE's PTS, what on earth is Bond doing wearing a cravat, in 1995? Weren't they well and truely out of fashion by that point?
    It`s time to face up to facts....if Dalton had carried on as Bond, we may never be here talking about the last 20 years of Bond films....and that`s coming from someone who loves Daltons Bond.

    Given how Bond has been treated since, I think they should have stopped making Bond films after LTK.
  • Posts: 251
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Arrrgh!! I am the only one that enjoys that film as it is
    ~X(

    Brosnan may have had his faults in that film but I do enjoy some of his lines

    "in the end you're just a bank robber. Nothing more than a common thief"
    "Beg your pardon. Forgot to knock" (yes I like that line)
    "I used to drop in occasionally...shoot in and out"
    "That depends on your definition of safe sex"
    "What no small talk...no chit chat?"

    You're not the only one. I love everything about GE. :)>- [/quote

    You can count me in too.
    GE is one of my most rewatched Bond films, with some of the best screne Bond dialogue ever! (As you mentioned Bain...!)

    It`s time to face up to facts....if Dalton had carried on as Bond, we may never be here talking about the last 20 years of Bond films....and that`s coming from someone who loves Daltons Bond.

    Long live the love for GOLDENEYE!!!!!!!!!!!
  • edited March 2012 Posts: 11,189
    For Brosnan's seducing the evaluator, we had Dalton delaying his field report to have sex with that woman on the boat in TLD.

    That is a good point, perhaps I'm being a bit harsh. Although tbh I never found the flirtations between Dalton and Caroline Bliss that convincing:

    "Why James she's just your type
    wrong again MP...you are"

    Its probably because of the rather bland Caroline Bliss to be fair (I know I'm going to get a backlash now but I just never found her that memorable - apologies).
  • edited March 2012 Posts: 11,189
    Shoreline wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Arrrgh!! I am the only one that enjoys that film as it is
    ~X(

    Brosnan may have had his faults in that film but I do enjoy some of his lines

    "in the end you're just a bank robber. Nothing more than a common thief"
    "Beg your pardon. Forgot to knock" (yes I like that line)
    "I used to drop in occasionally...shoot in and out"
    "That depends on your definition of safe sex"
    "What no small talk...no chit chat?"

    You're not the only one. I love everything about GE. :)>- [/quote

    You can count me in too.
    GE is one of my most rewatched Bond films, with some of the best screne Bond dialogue ever! (As you mentioned Bain...!)

    It`s time to face up to facts....if Dalton had carried on as Bond, we may never be here talking about the last 20 years of Bond films....and that`s coming from someone who loves Daltons Bond.

    Long live the love for GOLDENEYE!!!!!!!!!!!

    I am very fond of that movie for personal reasons. It's by a million miles Brosnan's best film.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,713
    Given how Bond has been treated since, I think they should have stopped making Bond films after LTK.

    Part of me agrees, part of me wouldn't want to miss GE, TND and DAD.

  • edited March 2012 Posts: 11,189
    In regard to Caroline (the evaluator not Bliss) I never thought she was that bad. I suppose she was an easy target for Bond - the repressed, mousy but driven woman.

    Also, I can't be certain how GE with Dalton would have been greeted. I'm sure it would have been sucessful given the 6 year hiatus but would it have been the powerhouse it was? I was too young to be around at the time but I do have my gut feelings.
  • Posts: 4,813
    Here's a question for anyone who's lived through it: When Roger became Bond, wasn't his first film (critically) viewed as lackluster and his next one viewed as even worse?
    As I understand it, he wasn't doing so well himself until TSWLM came out and changed everything.

    This is when I feel like Dalton could have hung around and eventually won over the audience
  • Posts: 11,189
    The difference was that Rog was already a hugely popular figure. He'd won huge audiences in the UK with The Saint and in America with The Persuaders. Basically he didn't have to try as hard as Dalton did.
  • Posts: 1,497
    Given how Bond has been treated since, I think they should have stopped making Bond films after LTK.

    Part of me agrees, part of me wouldn't want to miss GE, TND and DAD.

    One has to wonder what the series would have been like in the Brosnan era if the film-makers <i>really</i> addressed this issue. Let's be honest, besides the abuse he gets from the females in the office about being a mysoginist, he's still his usual self, shagging multiple women per film. His number of conquests actually increased (no pun intended) during the Brosnan years from the Dalton years. So what if the films were written where he actually was getting denied from all the women? Would it still be Bond, or would it take Bond too contextually? This is is the contradiction: by Judi Dench's M calling him a relic, mysoginist, etc...she's defining Bond of the 60's and 70's and placing him in the modern time, which doesn't make sense if you think about...Am I making sense here by the way? I tend to ramble on with my thoughts sometimes, so sorry if this sounds convoluted.
    Here's a question for anyone who's lived through it: When Roger became Bond, wasn't his first film (critically) viewed as lackluster and his next one viewed as even worse?
    As I understand it, he wasn't doing so well himself until TSWLM came out and changed everything.

    This is when I feel like Dalton could have hung around and eventually won over the audience

    Gosh, I wish I was around in the 70's to catch LALD, TMWTGG, and Spy in the theatres upon initial release.

    Agreed, the Bond series had experienced a gradual decline for years since Moonraker, so I could only imagine a third Dalton film furthering that decline.

  • edited March 2012 Posts: 11,189
    Here's a question for anyone who's lived through it: When Roger became Bond, wasn't his first film (critically) viewed as lackluster and his next one viewed as even worse?
    As I understand it, he wasn't doing so well himself until TSWLM came out and changed everything.

    This is when I feel like Dalton could have hung around and eventually won over the audience

    The difference was that Rog was already a hugely popular figure before starring in Bond. He'd won huge audiences in the UK with The Saint and in America with The Persuaders. Basically he didn't have to try as hard as Dalton did.

    Gosh I do feel increasingly bad for Dalts but these are my honest gut feelings.
    JBFan626 wrote:
    Given how Bond has been treated since, I think they should have stopped making Bond films after LTK.

    Part of me agrees, part of me wouldn't want to miss GE, TND and DAD.

    One has to wonder what the series would have been like in the Brosnan era if the film-makers <i>really</i> addressed this issue. Let's be honest, besides the abuse he gets from the females in the office about being a mysoginist, he's still his usual self, shagging multiple women per film. His number of conquests actually increased (no pun intended) during the Brosnan years from the Dalton years.

    I think the idea was to acknowledge the more "politically correct" climate but not weaken Bond. Hence the whole "dinosaur" stuff was not taken that much further in case fans like us started moaning (which many did anyway).

    Personally I don't think it does weaken Bond. Yes he's been given a dressing down by his boss but he's still driving a tank and shagging the women.

    I tend to agree with what good old Barry says here:

  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    Given how Bond has been treated since, I think they should have stopped making Bond films after LTK.

    with the exception of GE and possibly TND - i would say they could've done without TWINE and DAD... nothing memorable was contributed by the latter - i could throw TND in that mix as well, but it was Brosnan's last film that resembled anything close to a good Bond movie...

    seeing as how I am probably now in the minority (since it's vogue to hate on CR) - but CR was the first Bond movie in a long while (since probably TLD) that felt like a BOND film to me..... it stripped away all the nonsense, and brought it back to basics, and gave Bond the edge and physicality he had lacked during the Brosnan era.

  • edited March 2012 Posts: 11,189
    HASEROT wrote:
    Given how Bond has been treated since, I think they should have stopped making Bond films after LTK.

    with the exception of GE and possibly TND - i would say they could've done without TWINE and DAD... nothing memorable was contributed by the latter - i could throw TND in that mix as well, but it was Brosnan's last film that resembled anything close to a good Bond movie...

    seeing as how I am probably now in the minority (since it's vogue to hate on CR) - but CR was the first Bond movie in a long while (since probably TLD) that felt like a BOND film to me..... it stripped away all the nonsense, and brought it back to basics, and gave Bond the edge and physicality he had lacked during the Brosnan era.

    DAD was memorable but for the wrong reasons.

    TWINE had the boat chase and a few other good scenes but that was about it.

    Is it vogue to hate CR? Perhaps a few aren't that keen on it but I think the majority on here (myself included) consider it a fine Bond movie.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    BAIN123 wrote:
    HASEROT wrote:
    Given how Bond has been treated since, I think they should have stopped making Bond films after LTK.

    with the exception of GE and possibly TND - i would say they could've done without TWINE and DAD... nothing memorable was contributed by the latter - i could throw TND in that mix as well, but it was Brosnan's last film that resembled anything close to a good Bond movie...

    seeing as how I am probably now in the minority (since it's vogue to hate on CR) - but CR was the first Bond movie in a long while (since probably TLD) that felt like a BOND film to me..... it stripped away all the nonsense, and brought it back to basics, and gave Bond the edge and physicality he had lacked during the Brosnan era.

    Is it vogue to hate CR? Perhaps a few aren't that keen on it but I think the majority on here (myself included) consider it a fine Bond movie.

    judging by the countless threads i see complaining about Craig, and also countless posts about how terrible the film is.... i think it's safe to say a sizeable group on this board hate the film.... which is fine - their opinion and all....

    but i for one think it's the best Bond film since the 60's - and second only to FRWL.

  • Posts: 11,189
    Royale was definitely a "slow burner" for me. The more times I watched it, the more I liked it. Now it's easily in my top 5 - although I do have a few issues with it.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,713
    CR is a very good film, one of the best of the 2000's... if you forget it's a Bond film. As a Bond film, CR is horrible.
  • Posts: 1,082
    CR is an ok and quite entertaining for being a movie. It´s pretty good afterall.
    But as a Bond movie it is truly horrible. And compared to action movies from the 2000´s like Transporter 3 and Crank, CR is not so hot to say the least.
  • Posts: 1,082
    It´s well acted, well-written and looks like it had a big budget. The problem is that it is to emo and melodramatic.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    CR is a very good film, one of the best of the 2000's... if you forget it's a Bond film. As a Bond film, CR is horrible.

    of course, you and i define our Bond films differently... our top 5 would show that instantly lol.
    :-h
  • Posts: 11,425
    I wouldn't call Caroline ugly, just bland. And while we're on the topic of GE's PTS, what on earth is Bond doing wearing a cravat, in 1995? Weren't they well and truely out of fashion by that point?
    It`s time to face up to facts....if Dalton had carried on as Bond, we may never be here talking about the last 20 years of Bond films....and that`s coming from someone who loves Daltons Bond.

    Given how Bond has been treated since, I think they should have stopped making Bond films after LTK.

    Good observation. Brozza looks like a total idiot in GE - 1980s big hair, awful cravat. They completely lost the plot with that movie.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    It´s well acted, well-written and looks like it had a big budget. The problem is that it is to emo and melodramatic.

    no more emo than Bond crying at the end of OHMSS - again, over someone he loved, THAT HAD JUST DIED!... calling it emo is a cop out.... because it clearly, clearly isn't.

  • Posts: 1,082
    By emo I mean emotional, not emo like teenagers.
    OHMSS is emo too, but not as much.
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