The Dark Knight Rises :: July 2012 (Spoilers)

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  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I still don't get how Blake knew Batmans identity. Somebody explain please?

    And I think Blake would go on to protect Gotham as Robin, not Batman 2.0, because it was hinted at with his name.
    Still? It is explained right in the film. When he was little, John saw Bruce come to his foster home, and he recognized the smile Bruce used to conceal his hurt. He knew Bruce has an orphan and that he smiled to cover up all the anger he had. I assume he thought that anger was then used to take down criminals in the guise of Batman.
  • ChevronChevron Northern Ireland
    Posts: 370
    Bounine wrote:
    I was surprised to see the chap who played Scarecrow in TDKR. I've never read the comics. Can anyone answer this for me? Was this guy just playing another character or was he still the scarecrow/Dr. Jonathan Crane and playing the part of a judge for kicks or something? Is this something that happened in the comics?

    It's the same character. When he is sentencing Commissioner Gordon and the others Gordon called him Crane.

    There was a fun little ripple of recognition in the audience when he first appeared as the 'judge'. You could hear a murmur of 'that's him, isn't it?' in the cinema.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Chevron wrote:
    Bounine wrote:
    I was surprised to see the chap who played Scarecrow in TDKR. I've never read the comics. Can anyone answer this for me? Was this guy just playing another character or was he still the scarecrow/Dr. Jonathan Crane and playing the part of a judge for kicks or something? Is this something that happened in the comics?

    It's the same character. When he is sentencing Commissioner Gordon and the others Gordon called him Crane.

    There was a fun little ripple of recognition in the audience when he first appeared as the 'judge'. You could hear a murmur of 'that's him, isn't it?' in the cinema.

    It's obviously the same character. He is mentioned by name, and Nolan brings him in every Batman film. He makes an ironic statement. The doctor to the crazies is just as mentally unhinged as them, yet he is put into command as judge.
  • edited July 2012 Posts: 12,837
    I still don't get how Blake knew Batmans identity. Somebody explain please?

    And I think Blake would go on to protect Gotham as Robin, not Batman 2.0, because it was hinted at with his name.
    Still? It is explained right in the film. When he was little, John saw Bruce come to his foster home, and he recognized the smile Bruce used to conceal his hurt. He knew Bruce has an orphan and that he smiled to cover up all the anger he had. I assume he thought that anger was then used to take down criminals in the guise of Batman.

    I know that he knew Wayne was an orphan and he met him as a kid, but they never really explained how he knew he was Batman. It could be what you said or what @Virage said, but they never really explained it in the film, is what I'm saying.
  • Posts: 2,599
    Chevron wrote:
    Bounine wrote:
    I was surprised to see the chap who played Scarecrow in TDKR. I've never read the comics. Can anyone answer this for me? Was this guy just playing another character or was he still the scarecrow/Dr. Jonathan Crane and playing the part of a judge for kicks or something? Is this something that happened in the comics?

    It's the same character. When he is sentencing Commissioner Gordon and the others Gordon called him Crane.

    There was a fun little ripple of recognition in the audience when he first appeared as the 'judge'. You could hear a murmur of 'that's him, isn't it?' in the cinema.

    Oh thanks. I couldn't remember Scarecrow's real name. I had to look it up on the internet after the film.

  • Posts: 54
    DArtagnan wrote:
    Is anyone considering the possibility of Alfred just imagining/wishing/dreaming that last scene?

    After all, this is from the director of Inception, and there is a dream sequence with Ra's earlier in the film.
    Bounine wrote:
    It's a possibility I guess but not really. Infact, I wanted the assurance that Wayne was still alive.

    Yes, I wanted that for him too. He deserved to survive and live a happy life.

    But we did see him still in the Bat moments before it exploded. And you need to be pretty far from that explosion to survive it.

    Of course, I could find many arguments for him surviving as well. In the end, it's what you make of it. Like Inception.

    Bounine wrote:
    Why Robin when his name in the film is John Blake? I'm confused over this.

    Might there be a continuation with another director with Blake playing Robin or was this just a way for Nolan to introduce the character of Robin in a subtle way that will never evolve?
    He's not becoming Robin. He'll be the new Batman. The name Robin is just a wink from Team Nolan.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    DArtagnan wrote:
    DArtagnan wrote:
    Is anyone considering the possibility of Alfred just imagining/wishing/dreaming that last scene?

    After all, this is from the director of Inception, and there is a dream sequence with Ra's earlier in the film.
    Bounine wrote:
    It's a possibility I guess but not really. Infact, I wanted the assurance that Wayne was still alive.

    Yes, I wanted that for him too. He deserved to survive and live a happy life.

    But we did see him still in the Bat moments before it exploded. And you need to be pretty far from that explosion to survive it.

    Of course, I could find many arguments for him surviving as well. In the end, it's what you make of it. Like Inception.

    Bounine wrote:
    Why Robin when his name in the film is John Blake? I'm confused over this.

    Might there be a continuation with another director with Blake playing Robin or was this just a way for Nolan to introduce the character of Robin in a subtle way that will never evolve?
    He's not becoming Robin. He'll be the new Batman. The name Robin is just a wink from Team Nolan.
    We got a shot of him in the Bat, but then the shot with 5 seconds counting down wasn't necessarily the time at that moment, but clever editing. At any juncture, this is Batman, not Inception. Ever since Begins Nolan had that scene as the ending. It is real, no dream. His main goal was to bring absolute closure, and anyone saying it is a dream is over-examining the film and is missing the meaning of the scene.
  • I'm glad @bounine was confused as I was with the Robin thing.
  • Posts: 12,837
    DArtagnan wrote:
    He's not becoming Robin. He'll be the new Batman. The name Robin is just a wink from Team Nolan.

    I doubt they'll make a film with him as Batman, I think they're rebooting it with a new actor. I think he became Robin at the end, and from now on he would protect Gotham instead of Batman.
  • DArtagnan wrote:
    He's not becoming Robin. He'll be the new Batman. The name Robin is just a wink from Team Nolan.

    I doubt they'll make a film with him as Batman, I think they're rebooting it with a new actor. I think he became Robin at the end, and from now on he would protect Gotham instead of Batman.
    I understand the whole creative licence thing but to completely change the backstory to Robin and not even use a name but rather calling him Robin is beyond forgiveable.

  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,356
    DArtagnan wrote:
    He's not becoming Robin. He'll be the new Batman. The name Robin is just a wink from Team Nolan.

    I doubt they'll make a film with him as Batman, I think they're rebooting it with a new actor. I think he became Robin at the end, and from now on he would protect Gotham instead of Batman.

    That won't make a film with him as Batman, but he will become Batman in the 'Nolanverse', if get understand. I believe that is how it's meant to work.
  • edited July 2012 Posts: 2,599
    I don't follow. You mean audiences are supposed to imagine him as Batman in the 'Nolanverse'?

    I'd be happy if they continued the series in the same tone as the Nolan films but to reboot it again just seems so unnecessary as Nolan did it so well. We've already had two origin films - Burton's and Nolan's. Another just seems ridiculous yet at the same time what does one do unless of course they'll be another Batman who is not Bruce Wayne. Or if another actor who is playing Bruce Wayne decides to return to Gotham to continue the fight. Then we'll have the immortal scenario like James Bond...
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited July 2012 Posts: 13,356
    Bounine wrote:
    I don't follow. You mean audiences are supposed to imagine him as Batman in the 'Nolanverse'?

    He's got the Batcave. It makes sense to me that, if Blake choices, Batman would return when Gotham needs him. The legend of Batman continues on.

    A complete reboot is the only way to go and from there you could do whatever you want with that blank slate. Warner's are said to be aiming for anytime from 2017 for this film but who knows if this will hold. You may as well leave Batman alone for a good while now, even though he's very popular.
  • Posts: 12,837
    Samuel001 wrote:
    DArtagnan wrote:
    He's not becoming Robin. He'll be the new Batman. The name Robin is just a wink from Team Nolan.

    I doubt they'll make a film with him as Batman, I think they're rebooting it with a new actor. I think he became Robin at the end, and from now on he would protect Gotham instead of Batman.

    That won't make a film with him as Batman, but he will become Batman in the 'Nolanverse', if get understand. I believe that is how it's meant to work.

    I thought he'd become Robin in the nolanverse, and that Batman was done. He could've become the new Batman I suppose, but I like to think that he became Robin.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Film was great, although one thing I don't understand is, batman is the king when it comes to the insanely annoying "prep-time" batman fans use as a device for him to beat anyone, any time and any place. However, Batman getting demolished by Bane made very little sense in that, with all of batman's gadgetry, he couldn't taze or shoot some sort of incapacitating dart into the many flesh points Bane had on show?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    doubleoego wrote:
    Film was great, although one thing I don't understand is, batman is the king when it comes to the insanely annoying "prep-time" batman fans use as a device for him to beat anyone, any time and any place. However, Batman getting demolished by Bane made very little sense in that, with all of batman's gadgetry, he couldn't taze or shoot some sort of incapacitating dart into the many flesh points Bane had on show?

    None of that would have done anything. As you saw with the gas and other theatrics Batman used, they failed because Bane has become immune to their effects. Anything Batman has in his arsenal he learned about from his training, the same training Bane had. They have dealt with all those tactics before and now invulnerable to them. When it came down to it it was a straight fist fight.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Bane would have been immune to a tazer??
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    doubleoego wrote:
    Bane would have been immune to a tazer??

    It wouldn't have stopped him is what I am saying.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited July 2012 Posts: 13,356
    Samuel001 wrote:
    DArtagnan wrote:
    He's not becoming Robin. He'll be the new Batman. The name Robin is just a wink from Team Nolan.

    I doubt they'll make a film with him as Batman, I think they're rebooting it with a new actor. I think he became Robin at the end, and from now on he would protect Gotham instead of Batman.

    That won't make a film with him as Batman, but he will become Batman in the 'Nolanverse', if get understand. I believe that is how it's meant to work.

    I thought he'd become Robin in the nolanverse, and that Batman was done. He could've become the new Batman I suppose, but I like to think that he became Robin.

    As has been said it was just a wink to the fans. A bit like his initials being J B. That is also a wink, to another group of fans.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Samuel001 wrote:
    DArtagnan wrote:
    He's not becoming Robin. He'll be the new Batman. The name Robin is just a wink from Team Nolan.

    I doubt they'll make a film with him as Batman, I think they're rebooting it with a new actor. I think he became Robin at the end, and from now on he would protect Gotham instead of Batman.

    That won't make a film with him as Batman, but he will become Batman in the 'Nolanverse', if get understand. I believe that is how it's meant to work.

    I thought he'd become Robin in the nolanverse, and that Batman was done. He could've become the new Batman I suppose, but I like to think that he became Robin.

    As has been said it was just a wink to the fans. A bit like his initials being J B. That is also a wink, to another group of fans.

    Nah, I'd say the initials is just a coincidence. Now we are looking way too much into names I fear...
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited July 2012 Posts: 13,356
    Well, we know how much of a fan Nolan is. Someone should ask him. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that this is case, a shout out to all the other J Bs.
  • Maybe the J.B. is for Jeremy Bulloch :D
  • Posts: 12,837
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Samuel001 wrote:
    DArtagnan wrote:
    He's not becoming Robin. He'll be the new Batman. The name Robin is just a wink from Team Nolan.

    I doubt they'll make a film with him as Batman, I think they're rebooting it with a new actor. I think he became Robin at the end, and from now on he would protect Gotham instead of Batman.

    That won't make a film with him as Batman, but he will become Batman in the 'Nolanverse', if get understand. I believe that is how it's meant to work.

    I thought he'd become Robin in the nolanverse, and that Batman was done. He could've become the new Batman I suppose, but I like to think that he became Robin.

    As has been said it was just a wink to the fans. A bit like his initials being J B. That is also a wink, to another group of fans.

    Did they confirm it was just a wink to the fans? tbh I'd rather think that he was Robin because I think only Bruce can be Batman.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    It's a plot point to reinforce the fact that Batman is 'more than just a man'. He's a symbol, an icon and a legend. The Robin line was just a nod. It was more for the wider audience.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    RC7 wrote:
    It's a plot point to reinforce the fact that Batman is 'more than just a man'. He's a symbol, an icon and a legend. The Robin line was just a nod. It was more for the wider audience.

    Exactly. It shows that the symbol of Batman has now become so powerful it isn't about the man who is underneath. It can be anyone who continues the fight in its guise, because only that very symbol matters.
  • edited July 2012 Posts: 4,813
    Alright, I just got back from finally seeing this movie (and finally got to read the 5 or 6 pages of this thread I had been avoiding :)) )

    I loved it. I have so much to say but with it all fresh in my head it's hard to narrow down what I want to write-- don't you hate that??

    These last few pages though I notice some confusion on the whole 'Robin' business... @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 & @RC7 are right on the money. In Batman Begins, Bruce clearly says that as a man he can be ignored but as a symbol he can be everlasting. That's why John Blake was given the directions to the Batcave. He is Batman now. His birth name being 'Robin Blake' was simply a wink to the audience. Nolan said in the beginning that 'Robin' would not be in his movies and he meant it.

    Blake is not this guy:

    robin_01.jpg

    Blake is THIS guy:

    silhouette01.jpg

    Typically I don't like Batman stories where Bruce Wayne quits being Batman, but since I know this is Nolan's conclusion, I was very happy with how it was handled!!
  • edited July 2012 Posts: 54
    We got a shot of him in the Bat, but then the shot with 5 seconds counting down wasn't necessarily the time at that moment, but clever editing.
    That is one argument I have for him surviving. Another is that Alfred sees Selina as well.
    Ever since Begins Nolan had that scene as the ending.
    When did he mention that? He wasn't even sure he was going to make a sequel, let alone two.
    It is real, no dream. His main goal was to bring absolute closure, and anyone saying it is a dream is over-examining the film and is missing the meaning of the scene.
    Which is what? Bruce's death would be a lot more closure than this.
    At any juncture, this is Batman, not Inception.
    Please don't think of me as an idiot. I know that it's not Inception. But it comes from the same filmmaker. So it is not far-fetched to think it is.

    I am not saying that he died; I am saying that it may be interpreted as such, and that Nolan purposefully made it slightly ambiguous. He is a magician with more in his sleeves than just "clever editing."
  • Posts: 54
    DArtagnan wrote:
    He's not becoming Robin. He'll be the new Batman. The name Robin is just a wink from Team Nolan.

    I doubt they'll make a film with him as Batman, I think they're rebooting it with a new actor. I think he became Robin at the end, and from now on he would protect Gotham instead of Batman.
    I believe that he will just be wearing Batman's suit, and protect Gotham as Batman. Besides, Bruce told Gordon that it did not matter who was behind the mask. I think that meant that the symbol (costume and all) would remain.

    I agree that they won't be making a film with Levitt. That is not what I meant.
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    Was debating about whether to see it this weekend or not. Since I'm in this thread, I went and saw it. Went to a Sunday afternoon showing. 3/4 capacity, although the lower seats near the emergency exit filled up.

    A great end to the trilogy. Only Indiana Jones was a better trilogy. Bane was awesome. So was Hathaway as Catwoman, but Julie Newmar still is the best Catwoman. Loved the way Anne rode the motorcycle.

    My only complaint is that they relied on Batman Begins for the storyline too much. Otherwise a surprising, but brilliant ending. I would normally poo-poo on the Robin character, but I think Joseph Levitt-Gordon could pull it off.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    DArtagnan wrote:
    We got a shot of him in the Bat, but then the shot with 5 seconds counting down wasn't necessarily the time at that moment, but clever editing.
    That is one argument I have for him surviving. Another is that Alfred sees Selina as well.
    Ever since Begins Nolan had that scene as the ending.
    When did he mention that? He wasn't even sure he was going to make a sequel, let alone two.
    It is real, no dream. His main goal was to bring absolute closure, and anyone saying it is a dream is over-examining the film and is missing the meaning of the scene.
    Which is what? Bruce's death would be a lot more closure than this.
    At any juncture, this is Batman, not Inception.
    Please don't think of me as an idiot. I know that it's not Inception. But it comes from the same filmmaker. So it is not far-fetched to think it is.

    I am not saying that he died; I am saying that it may be interpreted as such, and that Nolan purposefully made it slightly ambiguous. He is a magician with more in his sleeves than just "clever editing."

    Nolan has said he has viewed Bruce's story as three parts:
    http://www.geeksofdoom.com/2012/06/11/christopher-nolan-says-he-wont-direct-a-sequel-to-the-dark-knight-rises/

    The end scene was what he always had in his mind of the ending to the story. It didn't matter what Bruce went through, the ending would always stay the same. The meaning behind it isn't hard to see. We finally see Bruce happy and living the life that Alfred had always wished for him to live once he quit his crusade as Batman. That is the best possible closure, and not Bruce dying of all things. Just because Nolan's past work had questionable endings doesn't mean every consecutive film following it will have that as well. BRUCE IS ALIVE. Nolan said that he wanted a true closure to this story, and that is what it is. Bruce retired and off to live the normal life he always should have had away from the cape and cowl.
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