The biggest missed opportunities in the Bond franchise

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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    RC7 wrote: »
    QoS.

    CR was the ultimate springboard, but there was to be no lift off.
    It's true actually, even though I enjoyed it. I'll say the same for SP, after they got it back together with SF.
    ----

    I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but perhaps not here. For me one of the biggest missed opportunities was not casting Gemma Arterton as MP in QoS, and then keeping her on for future entries. She would have been perfect in my opinion.
  • edited March 2017 Posts: 463
    Lazenby in DAF.

    When SP was first announced, I had this idea of a "SPECTRE Begins" -type film where we would see Blofeld baiting Bond into destroying Quantum in order to take out his criminal competition. I still believe this would've been better than what we got - especially since Quantum would be properly addressed without the retcons.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    bondjames wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    QoS.

    CR was the ultimate springboard, but there was to be no lift off.
    It's true actually, even though I enjoyed it. I'll say the same for SP, after they got it back together with SF.
    ----

    I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but perhaps not here. For me one of the biggest missed opportunities was not casting Gemma Arterton as MP in QoS, and then keeping her on for future entries. She would have been perfect in my opinion.

    Yeah, she'd be a fantastic MP.
  • edited March 2017 Posts: 1,970
    Making YOLT before OHMSS and completely ignoring the novel YOLT

    A 3rd Dalton movie

    A 5th Brosnan movie

    The gun barrel not at the start of QoS and Skyfall

    Steven Spielberg not directing a Bond

    John Williams not scoring a Bond

    DAD not being Agent Under Fire
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    For me it's a 3rd dalton film because I think he's a fantastic bond
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    CrzChris4 wrote: »
    Lazenby in DAF.

    When SP was first announced, I had this idea of a "SPECTRE Begins" -type film where we would see Blofeld baiting Bond into destroying Quantum in order to take out his criminal competition. I still believe this would've been better than what we got - especially since Quantum would be properly addressed without the retcons.

    I really like that idea.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    Milovy wrote: »
    Killing off Mathis in QoS was a mistake - could have had a great reoccurring character in Giancarlo Giannini. He had a warm presence and great chemistry with Craig. I really dislike that they killed him off for cheap pathos. (I dislike the "sacrificial lamb" trope in Bond films in general.)

    SP suffered by not having one.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Mr. White. :P
  • Mr. White being Blofeld.

    Before Spectre opened—even with Waltz's casting—I held out hope the filmmakers might surprise us and reveal Mr. White to have been Blofeld all along. Apart from White already being an exceptionally sinister antagonist, how cool would that have been for us to have seen Blofeld prominently used in two films already and had no idea it was him all along? Bond standing over Blofeld at the conclusion of Casino Royale, driving with Blofeld in his trunk through the opening of QoS and interrogating him with M, Blofeld leading a secret meeting at the opera in QoS. Mr. White is so obviously a code name (and goes along with the white cat thing anyway). Rather than hamfistedly retconning everything with Spectre, revealing the established leader of Quantum to be Blofeld once they procured the rights would have been a completely natural move—almost as if they had planned it that way all along. Waltz could have been the leader of Spectre—Oberwhoever—and White/Blofeld could rise up and wrangle control over Spectre, killing Waltz himself or after Waltz has been eliminated over the course of Bond's mission. This way White/Blofeld really is responsible for Vesper's death and we would have actually seen that over the course of two films, rather than getting Waltz sneering, "It was me, who you never even knew existed...because I didn't exist. Just four words of dialogue, James, and it was all me." Blech. White should have been Blofeld. That would have been beyond epic, and would have made Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace both even more amazing than they are.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    That's what I was hoping would happen.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I dunno, man.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Mr. White being Blofeld.

    Before Spectre opened—even with Waltz's casting—I held out hope the filmmakers might surprise us and reveal Mr. White to have been Blofeld all along. Apart from White already being an exceptionally sinister antagonist, how cool would that have been for us to have seen Blofeld prominently used in two films already and had no idea it was him all along? Bond standing over Blofeld at the conclusion of Casino Royale, driving with Blofeld in his trunk through the opening of QoS and interrogating him with M, Blofeld leading a secret meeting at the opera in QoS. Mr. White is so obviously a code name (and goes along with the white cat thing anyway). Rather than hamfistedly retconning everything with Spectre, revealing the established leader of Quantum to be Blofeld once they procured the rights would have been a completely natural move—almost as if they had planned it that way all along. Waltz could have been the leader of Spectre—Oberwhoever—and White/Blofeld could rise up and wrangle control over Spectre, killing Waltz himself or after Waltz has been eliminated over the course of Bond's mission. This way White/Blofeld really is responsible for Vesper's death and we would have actually seen that over the course of two films, rather than getting Waltz sneering, "It was me, who you never even knew existed...because I didn't exist. Just four words of dialogue, James, and it was all me." Blech. White should have been Blofeld. That would have been beyond epic, and would have made Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace both even more amazing than they are.
    I think this is an excellent idea, and logically it makes sense. The trouble is QoS didn't go down so well, so perhaps they didn't want to draw attention to the White character except as Swann's daughter and as a link to the eventual 'big bad'. There was also probably a bit of pressure and also hubris involved after SF's success (need for another big Oscar name etc.). Sad state of affairs really.
  • bondjames wrote: »
    Mr. White being Blofeld.

    Before Spectre opened—even with Waltz's casting—I held out hope the filmmakers might surprise us and reveal Mr. White to have been Blofeld all along. Apart from White already being an exceptionally sinister antagonist, how cool would that have been for us to have seen Blofeld prominently used in two films already and had no idea it was him all along? Bond standing over Blofeld at the conclusion of Casino Royale, driving with Blofeld in his trunk through the opening of QoS and interrogating him with M, Blofeld leading a secret meeting at the opera in QoS. Mr. White is so obviously a code name (and goes along with the white cat thing anyway). Rather than hamfistedly retconning everything with Spectre, revealing the established leader of Quantum to be Blofeld once they procured the rights would have been a completely natural move—almost as if they had planned it that way all along. Waltz could have been the leader of Spectre—Oberwhoever—and White/Blofeld could rise up and wrangle control over Spectre, killing Waltz himself or after Waltz has been eliminated over the course of Bond's mission. This way White/Blofeld really is responsible for Vesper's death and we would have actually seen that over the course of two films, rather than getting Waltz sneering, "It was me, who you never even knew existed...because I didn't exist. Just four words of dialogue, James, and it was all me." Blech. White should have been Blofeld. That would have been beyond epic, and would have made Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace both even more amazing than they are.
    I think this is an excellent idea, and logically it makes sense. The trouble is QoS didn't go down so well, so perhaps they didn't want to draw attention to the White character except as Swann's daughter and as a link to the eventual 'big bad'. There was also probably a bit of pressure and also hubris involved after SF's success (need for another big Oscar name etc.). Sad state of affairs really.

    Yes, the biggest argument against the idea is that Jesper Christensen isn't a "name." Waltz is. We probably need look no further than that for why the idea was never considered, or dustbinned if it ever was.

    Still, that for me will go down as one of the series' biggest missed opportunities.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I fail to see how White being Blofeld would suddenly make SP better in people's eyes. I'm glad White was used to make a very interesting statement rather than be built up to be the kind of villain he really wasn't written to be at any point. He's a man who did what he had to in the position he was at, but he wasn't the arrogant, malicious and manipulative person Blofeld is. SP backs that up, in many respects, and draws the line between two bad men in a fascinating way. White is the family man who lost his way and never got back on the good path, whereas Blofeld is a maniacal control freak with a penchant for violence.

    White wouldn't have worked as Blofeld.
  • Well, Spectre would have been a completely different film if White had turned out to be Blofeld, and the retconning issues would have vanished altogether. (Making White Blofeld would have been a form of retconning, yes, but the transition would have been a natural one—good retconning vs. bad retconning.) White was a man in the shadows. He was sinister, cold-blooded, mocking toward Mi6, on his game and in control. It would not have been a giant leap at all to see him become the 21st Century Blofeld. And in my opinion, the traits we'd seen already in White were more convincingly "Blofeld" than what Waltz delivered.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    The sad thing is if we get another Craig film it's gonna have to build and wrap up this sad story arch that SPECTRE has started
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    The sad thing is if we get another Craig film it's gonna have to build and wrap up this sad story arch that SPECTRE has started
  • Posts: 676
    echo wrote: »
    Milovy wrote: »
    Killing off Mathis in QoS was a mistake - could have had a great reoccurring character in Giancarlo Giannini. He had a warm presence and great chemistry with Craig. I really dislike that they killed him off for cheap pathos. (I dislike the "sacrificial lamb" trope in Bond films in general.)

    SP suffered by not having one.
    You think so? One of my favourite things about the film is how Monica Bellucci's character isn't killed off, like so many Bond girls are.
    Well, Spectre would have been a completely different film if White had turned out to be Blofeld, and the retconning issues would have vanished altogether. (Making White Blofeld would have been a form of retconning, yes, but the transition would have been a natural one—good retconning vs. bad retconning.) White was a man in the shadows. He was sinister, cold-blooded, mocking toward Mi6, on his game and in control. It would not have been a giant leap at all to see him become the 21st Century Blofeld. And in my opinion, the traits we'd seen already in White were more convincingly "Blofeld" than what Waltz delivered.
    Yep. It was only in Spectre that they introduced the (unconvincing) idea that Mr. White was some kind of "family man" who objected to the deaths of women and children. What, did he think only men died due to Quantum's activities?

    I'm also surprised that more Bond fans don't seem to have an issue with Bond riding off into the sunset with Mr. White's daughter. Ridiculous writing.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    edited March 2017 Posts: 3,157
    The whole movie is a big missed opportunity. @Some_Kind_Of_Hero is totally right, White should have been Blofeld.
  • I thought in her few scenes Monica Bellucci was much more interesting than the female lead.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    Lazenby not doing Diamonds, and no mention of Tracy in it at all.
    The producers not securing Steven Spielberg for Moonraker.
    Keeping Jaws a villain
    Dalton not getting a 3rd Bond film in early 90's.
    Brosnan not getting a 5th film.
    Daniel Craigs entire tenure after Casino Royale
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Walecs wrote: »
    The whole movie is a big missed opportunity. @Some_Kind_Of_Hero is totally right, White should have been Blofeld.

    Shite idea.
  • Barbara Carrera not murdering Largo in NSNA and giving us a much better villain to deal with at the end of the story.

    In fact, to me she's one of the better Bond villains.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    RC7 wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    The whole movie is a big missed opportunity. @Some_Kind_Of_Hero is totally right, White should have been Blofeld.

    Shite idea.

    Glad you're with me on this one, @RC7. Very much agreed.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited March 2017 Posts: 6,304
    Milovy wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Milovy wrote: »
    Killing off Mathis in QoS was a mistake - could have had a great reoccurring character in Giancarlo Giannini. He had a warm presence and great chemistry with Craig. I really dislike that they killed him off for cheap pathos. (I dislike the "sacrificial lamb" trope in Bond films in general.)

    SP suffered by not having one.
    You think so? One of my favourite things about the film is how Monica Bellucci's character isn't killed off, like so many Bond girls are.

    Yes, the movie feels like it has no stakes without a SL. Usually the sacrificial lamb is what gives Bond (Saunders) or the story (Aki) some depth.

    I realize the previous three movies had a lot of people close to Bond die, but that's not to say we couldn't at least have a Saunders die in SP.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    SPECTRE plain and simple!
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    RC7 wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    The whole movie is a big missed opportunity. @Some_Kind_Of_Hero is totally right, White should have been Blofeld.

    Shite idea.
    Yeah, "daddy loved you more" was much better.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    White shouldn't have been Blofeld but having the brother relationship if one needed to be explored it should have been between White and Blofeld, it would have been so much more compelling.

    Making the idea of their situation being a partnership gone sour was such an opportunity, White should have been equal to ESB at one point but all his getting caught and exposing Quantum caused ESB to start to distance himself.

    He would start to wind Quantum up and establish SPECTRE behind White's back, White would find out and then try to take out ESB but it would be too late as ESB had infiltrated all of White's areas of influence.

    White would go on the run and the PTS would be Bond tracking Sciarra who is in Mexico on a tip off of White being sighted there and Bond would unbeknownst to him foil an assasination attempt of White, who in the PTS we would see in profile but it wouldn't be revealed till when Bond realises who the Pale King is.

    No big CGI explosion just a fast paced chase once Sciarra realises Bond has foiled his attempt by trying to shoot him while he's aiming at White, Bond will have monitored the conversation with Sciarra with a bug that was planted on him when they spot him in the parade before heading for the hotel in the sequence just after the gun barrel. This would lead to the Helicopter moment in the film.

    Setting up a scene like the film where Bond tracks White down to Austria and White knowing he's done for because Bond found him. He will tease Bond about what has gone on, the covering up of Quantum by Haines and also reveal about Madeline. White won't be on the run because he suddenly grew a concience, he'll be on the run because he got on the wrong side of his former business partner, totally selfish reasons, that women and childeren line does not ring true with a one time high up in a criminal organisation.

    This part of my idea for my rewrite of SPECTRE I'm still working on.

    Fair enough might sound not up to some peoples idea but if you are going to string things together and show the emergence of Blofeld and have a reason believable enough to have White go against ESB then this is far more substantial and credible than scanning rings and having Ernst boil down to a childhood spat.

    The thing is this is mostly all P&W ideas used I've not rewritten things much. I've just utilised established moments of this era differently to come up with something which I think is more credible.
  • Posts: 1,680
    I wish they had given us more substance in terms of White & Blofeld & their relationship. Craigs first two were loaded with substance & his last two were mainly devoid of it.
  • Posts: 11,425
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Monica Bellucci and Salma Hayek not being cast as Bond girls.

    50% redressed
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