Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • edited February 2014 Posts: 11,189
    I'm kind of with @thelivingroyale on this one and prefer the book LALD to the film. I don't mind the film but I do find the plot a little bland and perhaps dated more than anything. Kananga has never really stuck out for me as a main villain, the vodoo angle feels very dated, the directorial style (while a step up from DAF) does feel TV-movie-ish at times and the action is laced with juvenile 70s slapstick that isn't particularly funny.

    The last time I watched LALD all the way through was as a double bill with GF...and I was left in no doubt which film has aged better.
  • Posts: 15,114
    For me in terms of overall quality, LALD is middle of the road, but I always enjoy watching it, with all its flaws. It has a B movie charm that I don't think many Bond films had after it, except TWMTGG and maybe, maybe FYEO.
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    In my opinion John Glen is the "worst" of the recurring directors.
    His direction were just too boring.
  • Posts: 12,466
    Birdleson wrote:
    it annoys me how every single villain is black.

    It would defeat the purpose and defy logic to include white villains in Kananga's gang/scheme.

    True that actually. And when I said it's underrated I don't mean it's hated on necessarily, but I always think of it to be a bit above average for a Bond film. When a Bond film is unique for the right reasons, it's a good Bond film in my book.

  • edited February 2014 Posts: 12,837
    Birdleson wrote:
    it annoys me how every single villain is black.

    It would defeat the purpose and defy logic to include white villains in Kananga's gang/scheme.

    It'd be fine, if there were some black good guys to balance it out. But even Rosie turns out to be working for the villains. There was Quarrel Jr but he wasn't much of a character and I'm not sure he really evens it out. And then there's that bit where Bond's in the cab and a bunch of randomers on the street are revealed to be in league with the villain: and every one of them is black. Kananga, Tee Hee and co fair enough but does every black man in Harlem need to be working with them? I get that mainly black people live there but surely there's room in Kananga's business for one or two white henchmen?. I don't really get worked up about it though because it's of it's time, same as the dodgy bits in Flemings books, but it does irritate me.

    I read on here a few weeks ago that Rosie was meant to be white, and Solitaire black. It's a shame that the producers felt the need to change this.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Birdleson wrote:
    it annoys me how every single villain is black.

    It would defeat the purpose and defy logic to include white villains in Kananga's gang/scheme.

    It'd be fine, if there were some black good guys to balance it out. But even Rosie turns out to be working for the villains. There was Quarrel Jr but he wasn't much of a character and I'm not sure he really evens it out. And then there's that bit where Bond's in the cab and a bunch of randomers on the street are revealed to be in league with the villain: and every one of them is black. Kananga, Tee Hee and co fair enough but does every black man in Harlem need to be working with them? I get that mainly black people live there but surely there's room in Kananga's business for one or two white henchmen?. I don't really get worked up about it though because it's of it's time, same as the dodgy bits in Flemings books, but it does irritate me.

    I read on here a few weeks ago that Rosie was meant to be white, and Solitaire black. It's a shame that the producers felt the need to change this.

    Wasn't Diana Ross mentioned as a potential Solitaire?
  • edited February 2014 Posts: 12,837
    Yeah, I think that's who Tom Mankiewicz wanted, but the producers nixed the idea.
  • Posts: 12,466
    Interesting. Well wasn't there also that black CIA guy that was a good guy?
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    FoxRox wrote:
    Interesting. Well wasn't there also that black CIA guy that was a good guy?

    Yeah Harold Strutter.
  • Posts: 12,466
    There ya go. It was a great nod to Quarrel to include Quarrel Jr. in the film too.
  • edited February 2014 Posts: 12,837
    FoxRox wrote:
    There ya go. It was a great nod to Quarrel to include Quarrel Jr. in the film too.

    This is because they filmed the books out of order. In the novels Quarrel is in LALD and Dr No. But the producers filmed Dr No first so when they decided to adapt LALD, they invented the character of Quarrel Jr since they'd already killed off Quarrel.
  • Posts: 12,466
    FoxRox wrote:
    There ya go. It was a great nod to Quarrel to include Quarrel Jr. in the film too.

    This is because they filmed the books out of order. In the novels Quarrel is in LALD and Dr No. But the producers filmed Dr No first so when they decided to adapt LALD, they invented the character of Quarrel Jr since they'd already killed off Quarrel.

    I see; thanks for letting me know. I haven't read the books; so that was a good idea in the films.
  • Birdleson wrote:
    See, two nice blacks.

    Hey man, nothing is ever enough to appease the race komissars.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    MrBond wrote:
    In my opinion John Glen is the "worst" of the recurring directors.
    His direction [was] just too boring.
    I actually though Glen's direction was similar to Young's in that it was fairly straightforward and uncomplicated. Old school. If ONLY Glen could have resisted the Richard Lester-like sound gags with Moore's entries, I would have said it was perfect. His last two with Dalton were just great IMO.

  • Posts: 2,402
    Birdleson wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    [ If ONLY Glen could have resisted the Richard Lester-like sound gags with Moore's entries, I would have said it was perfect. His last two with Dalton were just great IMO.
    I agree, almost all of the Glen films would have been far above par without the goofball stuff. Glen thought having people and animals doing double-takes, actually an animal doing anything, was the height of humor and clever filmmaking.

    The double take crap is in MR, not Glen's films.

    I'm more bothered by the fact that the main ally dies in ALL five of Glen's films.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    I'm more bothered by the fact that the main ally dies in ALL five of Glen's films.
    All?
  • Posts: 2,402
    Luigi in FYEO
    Vijay in OP
    Tibbett in AVTAK
    Saunders in TLD
    Sharkey in LTK
  • Posts: 12,466
    Could be considered controversial, but it's only a prediction; I have a feeling Bond 24 is going to tank (worst Craig film yet). I don't know why, just a feeling. Controversial though since Skyfall was such a success.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Saunders in TLD
    Saunders was not a main ally IMO, he was a roadblock.
    :))
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    chrisisall wrote:
    Saunders in TLD
    Saunders was not a main ally IMO, he was a roadblock.
    :))

    Neither was Luigi. he was just there for a minute then poof.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Murdock wrote:
    Neither was Luigi. he was just there for a minute then poof.

    Good point.
  • I liked Saunders and how he and Bond eventually became friends.
  • Posts: 19,339
    I'm not keen on TLD as a lot of old members on here know but i do agree that the developing relationship between Bond and Saunders was touching,and his death was one where you actually felt for the character.
  • edited February 2014 Posts: 19,339
    Oh and also :
    I found it bland because at the end of the day, Kanaga was just a drug dealer. A drug dealer with a clever idea and some cool henchmen but still just a drug dealer. At the end of LALD, Bond stopped a heroin producing operation. He did that in five minutes at the beginning of Goldfinger.

    LTK would have the same issue if it was just Bond stopping Sanchez but you also have the revenge/rogue angle, which I think makes it much more interesting.

    And also Sanchez had the Stinger missiles,threatening to shoot down a commercial airliner dont forget,which Bond had no idea about until half way through.
    A nice little twist in the plot.

  • edited February 2014 Posts: 1,009
    There's something about an otherwise almost perfect Bond film: TSWLM. I'm writing about Fekkesh's "secretary". Is she an heroine who didn't doubt about saving another person's life? Bond's magic penis is so powerful that its power affects his visage and women would willingly sacrifice themselves for him 45 seconds after meeting him? Did Bond use her as a human shield (the most credible theory IMHO)? Or is she just that jerkass?
  • Birdleson wrote:
    it annoys me how every single villain is black.

    It would defeat the purpose and defy logic to include white villains in Kananga's gang/scheme.

    It'd be fine, if there were some black good guys to balance it out. But even Rosie turns out to be working for the villains. There was Quarrel Jr but he wasn't much of a character and I'm not sure he really evens it out. And then there's that bit where Bond's in the cab and a bunch of randomers on the street are revealed to be in league with the villain: and every one of them is black. Kananga, Tee Hee and co fair enough but does every black man in Harlem need to be working with them? I get that mainly black people live there but surely there's room in Kananga's business for one or two white henchmen?. I don't really get worked up about it though because it's of it's time, same as the dodgy bits in Flemings books, but it does irritate me.

    I read on here a few weeks ago that Rosie was meant to be white, and Solitaire black. It's a shame that the producers felt the need to change this.

    A Bond essay published in my country stated that Saltzman and Broccoli were afraid of the reactions of the white public in South Africa and the Southern USA States, where Bond was very popular. I read that another intention was to hire Macca just as the composer of the main song, and conversations with Aretha Franklin were on when suddenly they decided that turn Bond into an advocate of Civil Rights was an oxymoron. Bond is a racist in the novels, and decided that what follows was the best way to face it: create a band of black villains WAY smarter than Bond himself. This way thought that black public would root for them instead. And they chose excellent actors, it must be said: with the exception of Fred Williamson and Richard Roundtree, la crème de la crème of blaxplotation is there. And I love blaxplotation by the way.

    I would have preferred a multiracial band of villains, too, but the reasons stated above regrettably stopped that from happening.

    On another note. I have always thought the shoshine man in the Harlem scenes is a CIA agent. He's talking to Strutter on the radio. Why did they need more people if the smartass (and karma Houdini) cab driver was with Bond all the time, for crying out loud?
  • Posts: 19,339
    There's something about an otherwise almost perfect Bond film: TSWLM. I'm writing about Fekkesh's "secretary". Is she an heroine who didn't doubt about saving another person's life? Bond's magic penis is so powerful that its power affects his visage and women would willingly sacrifice themselves for him 45 seconds after meeting him? Did Bond use her as a human shield (the most credible theory IMHO)? Or is her just that jerkass?

    Well i always thought she was a human shield used by Bond,he does seem to whip her round,and the way he just disposes of her after she is shot backs up this theory IMO.

  • barryt007 wrote:
    I'm not keen on TLD as a lot of old members on here know but i do agree that the developing relationship between Bond and Saunders was touching,and his death was one where you actually felt for the character.

    Right on target. Saunders is to this day the best supporting character of any Bond movie.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Birdleson wrote:
    it annoys me how every single villain is black.

    It would defeat the purpose and defy logic to include white villains in Kananga's gang/scheme.

    Yes, I have been to Harlem, and did not see a single white villain there. So this is one example of realism in that film.

  • barryt007 wrote:
    There's something about an otherwise almost perfect Bond film: TSWLM. I'm writing about Fekkesh's "secretary". Is she an heroine who didn't doubt about saving another person's life? Bond's magic penis is so powerful that its power affects his visage and women would willingly sacrifice themselves for him 45 seconds after meeting him? Did Bond use her as a human shield (the most credible theory IMHO)? Or is her just that jerkass?

    Well i always thought she was a human shield used by Bond,he does seem to whip her round,and the way he just disposes of her after she is shot backs up this theory IMO.

    I should have to put myself as a human shield. I quote myself: "Or is her just that jerkass?". Sorry: "Is SHE just like jerkass". Earn a Cambridge Proficiency in English diploma for that XD

    Other than that, thanks, @barryt007!
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