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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    I'm not saying DAF doesn't have a few funny moments but I don't find it anything special other than the odd smile here and there. To be honest I've laughed more in some of the more serious Bond films (FRWL and CR for instance).

    My problem is that, as with DAD, I don't think DAF feels much like a Bond film either, more like a parody of one. Maybe that was what was needed at the time...but it doesn't hold up very well.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,466
    Could be considered controversial, but I've decided my favorite classic Bond film is OHMSS, with GF really close behind it. I do prefer Connery still over Lazenby, but OHMSS as a whole feels like such a complete movie. To me, it's the best-made film of the first 20.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    I'd still say FRWL is the "best made". Majesty's is great but suffers from crude dubbing and poor back projection in some scenes. Other than the final few minutes in Venace I'd still say FRWL looks excellent.
  • hildebrand_rarityhildebrand_rarity
    Posts: 316
    Quantum of Solace is a better Bond film than Skyfall:
    -It has a coherent plot
    -Camille and Fields together outclass Severine as a Bond girl
    -Camille's position in the story as a parallel to Bond is cleverer than Severine's
    -it makes better use of its (better) locations (desert fight, chase through Siena, Bregenz opera, Bolivian party scene, Haiti boat chase)
    -the villains actually make sense and are more enjoyable as characters than Silva
    -the editing is really only annoying in one part of one scene (the beginning of the Siena chase)
    -it does a better job of adding to the Bond universe as a whole (I.e.quantum, guy Haines, mr. White)
    -it doesn't have any overlong acts like the preparation and final battle at skyfall
    -it has a classic Bond scene in the opera fight while Skyfall does not IMO
    -its villain plot makes sense and Is logically thought out
    -it integrates current political conflicts into the plot seamlessly
    -I like the location cards, dammit
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    hildebrand_rarity wrote:
    Quantum of Solace is a better Bond film than Skyfall:

    I agree with all your points.
  • Matt_HelmMatt_Helm
    Posts: 908
    Perilagu_Khan wrote:
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    Perilagu_Khan wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I'm sorry. I know im a bad person for not putting DAD at the bottom :( I just enjoy it more than DAF. Maybe it's DAF's pretty slow pace all the way through, fat bloated Connery not giving a crap or the cheap looking production throughout. I just don't like that film and struggle to finish it more than DAD.

    You're obviously entitled to your opinion. But whereas DAD is a cringe-inducing insult to one's intelligence, DAF is witty and humorous, has perhaps the best score of all Bond films, and has a bizarre darkness about it that makes the film interesting on an artistic and tonal level, even if it is not technically top notch. And I don't consider Connery "not giving a crap" to be an accurate critique at all. It's YOLT in which he didn't care and it showed. In DAF, Seanery clearly enjoys being the straight man in what is the great, dark comedy of the Bond series.

    The only thing (apart from the soundtrack, which is a given,since they had Barry then) DAF has over DAD are the one liners. At least Brosnan looks like he is able to run a 100m , without needing an oxygen shower afterwards. Its story is a bad joke, and some of the remarks are simply tasteless,considering that it trails OHMSS.
    Bizarre darkness? Yeah,sure!

    Well, there's no accounting for taste. Or its lack.

    There is really no need to excuse yourself. I'm sure you didn't ask for it.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    hildebrand_rarity wrote:
    Quantum of Solace is a better Bond film than Skyfall:
    -It has a coherent plot TRUE
    -Camille and Fields together outclass Severine as a Bond girl A MATTER OF TASTE
    -Camille's position in the story as a parallel to Bond is cleverer than Severine's I FIND SEVERINE MORE LIKE FLEMINGS FLAWED HEROINES WITH HER UNGRACIOUS ENDING SHE LEAVES BEHIND A LARGER CINEMATIC FOOTPRINT.
    -it makes better use of its (better) locations (desert fight, chase through Siena, Bregenz opera, Bolivian party scene, Haiti boat chase) QOB DID NOT HAVE A BETTER USE OF ITS LOCATIONS IT FLAHED THROUGH THEM, SIENNA COULD BE ANYWHERE WITH HORSES, THE OPERA SET WAS IMPRESSIVE BUT COULD BE ANYWHERE, SAME APPLIES FOR ALL LOCATIONS. EXCEPT FOR THE DESERT LOCATION. AND SF FOR THE SCOTTISH LOCATION. THERE IS LITTLE GLAMOUR IN THE CRAIG ERA WHEN IT COMES TO LOCATIONS.
    -the villains actually make sense and are more enjoyable as characters than Silva GRANTED SILVA IS A BIT OVER THE TOP, AS ARE MOST GREAT 007 VILLAINS, AND DOES EVERYTHING WRONG TO GET HIS 'PLAN' GOING, WHILE THE WEASEL IN QOB IS LITTLE MORE THAN A STOOGE/FRONTMAN OF A LARGER ORGANISATION.
    -the editing is really only annoying in one part of one scene (the beginning of the Siena chase) QOB'S ONE MAJOR FLAWS IS THE EDITING, THE DIRECTOR WAS SEEMINGLY OVERRULED BY HIS EDITOR FROM THE BOURNE FRANCHISE, WHO REIGNED FREE WITHOUT THE BRILLIANT IMPUT FROM PAUL GREENGRASS. WHICH LEFT QOB A BIT OF A MESS.
    -it does a better job of adding to the Bond universe as a whole (I.e.quantum, guy Haines, mr. White) TRUE, THE ONE FAILING THAT SF HAS THAT IT DID NOT TIE INTO THE CREATED CRAIG/007 UNIVERSE.
    -it doesn't have any overlong acts like the preparation and final battle at skyfall WHICH GIVES SF A FAR MORE BALLANCED FEELING THAN THE BOURNE APPROUCH OF QOB
    -it has a classic Bond scene in the opera fight while Skyfall does not IMO I FOUND THE PTS SCENE IN SF HAVE A BRILLIANT CLASSIC 007 FEELING, 007 SAVING THE M FROM THE DIRECT ATTACK IN THE HEARING WAS PRETTY CLASSIC TOO. THIS ARGUMENT IS OFF IMHO
    -its villain plot makes sense and Is logically thought out TRUE, IT IS A MORE REAL LIFE PLOT AND FAR MORE SENSIBLE AND LOGIC AS THAT IN SF, WHERE EVEN M'S PLAN IS STUPID AND UNPROFESSIONAL.-it integrates current political conflicts into the plot seamlessly
    -I like the location cards, dammit OKAY NO NEED FOR BLASPHEMY

    SF is in my opinion a step forward from that poor mans movie that would have done better under Paul Greengrass than Forster. The man was clearly far over his head in this project that also suffered from the scriptwriters strike. We ended up with an idea of what the movie could have been instead of a decent episode in a succesfull franchise. And the later actionscenes that made no sense at all but the need for symbolism and the death of Mathis made this a real poorly thought out movie.
  • LegateDamarLegateDamar
    Posts: 381
    I liked QOS, but no way it's better than Skyfall, IMO.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    LegateDamar wrote:
    I liked QOS, but no way it's better than Skyfall, IMO.
    Ummm... more like I liked SF, but no way it's better than QOS, IMO.
  • LegateDamarLegateDamar
    Posts: 381
    De gustibus non est disputandum
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Yo tambiam fubar.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,466
    It seems like the general consensus on this site is than SF is overrated; it's my second favorite Bond film behind CR.
  • hildebrand_rarityhildebrand_rarity
    edited February 2014 Posts: 316
    FoxRox wrote:
    It seems like the general consensus on this site is than SF is overrated; it's my second favorite Bond film behind CR.

    I think it's the most overrated Bond film of them all. It's a good film, but certainly not among the elite of the series. I find the notion of considering it a better objective film than CR and OHMSS or even GF laughable.
  • LegateDamarLegateDamar
    edited February 2014 Posts: 381
    FoxRox wrote:
    It seems like the general consensus on this site is than SF is overrated; it's my second favorite Bond film behind CR.

    A few folks complaining online doesn't mean much. It made a ton of money and most people liked it. It's the most successful Bond film ever. If the net had been around in 1964, people would be bitching about Goldfinger not being as good as the first two films.


  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,466
    LegateDamar wrote:
    FoxRox wrote:
    It seems like the general consensus on this site is than SF is overrated; it's my second favorite Bond film behind CR.

    A few folks complaining online doesn't mean much. It made a ton of money and most people liked it. It's the most successful Bond film ever. If the net had been around in 1964, people would be bitching about Goldfinger not being as good as the first two films.

    Well, it's all about the opinions. Gf will always be my favorite Connery film, but I know most people these days would actually disagree.
  • CraigisnotbondCraigisnotbond
    Posts: 99
    Skyfall is good, but HIGHLY overrated. FRWL put me to sleep.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,134
    Craigisnotbond wrote:
    Skyfall is good, but HIGHLY overrated. FRWL put me to sleep.

    That's a new one. Can I ask how old you are Craigisnotbond?

  • bigladiesmanbigladiesman
    Posts: 1,009
    chrisisall wrote:
    DAD and DAF are equals IMHO. Both nuts and both entertaining.

    More or less what happens to me with DAF, MR and NSNA. I know I actually enjoy them because they're bizarre and fun. Same goes for DAD, but that invisible car beats me. Maybe a re-watch would not hurt, I only have seen DAD twice... I think DAF is the Bond film I've watched most times... 6 or 7...
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,466
    Benny wrote:
    Craigisnotbond wrote:
    Skyfall is good, but HIGHLY overrated. FRWL put me to sleep.

    That's a new one. Can I ask how old you are Craigisnotbond?

    To be fair I thought FRWL did have some really slow and dull stretches, but nothing that put me to sleep haha. Either Frwl or Tb was the slowest-paced Connery film, but they're both still good.
  • CraigisnotbondCraigisnotbond
    Posts: 99
    FoxRox wrote:
    Benny wrote:
    Craigisnotbond wrote:
    Skyfall is good, but HIGHLY overrated. FRWL put me to sleep.

    That's a new one. Can I ask how old you are Craigisnotbond?

    To be fair I thought FRWL did have some really slow and dull stretches, but nothing that put me to sleep haha. Either Frwl or Tb was the slowest-paced Connery film, but they're both still good.

    I thought the scenes after the train were good; the pace really picked up.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    TWINE has a much more interesting and complex Bond than QOS. Everyone slags off the Brosnan movies, saying there's moments of depth then he just goes back to being super Bond. I'd argue that this applies to QOS more than any other Bond film. You get a good dramatic scene every now and again but then the film will just chuck in another badly edited chase sequence where Bond is unstoppable (in TWINE he dislocates his shoulder and nearly falls off the millennium dome, in QOS he manages to survive the skydive with no injuries at all).

    TWINE has some moments of melodrama sure and the Bond/Elektra relationship feels a little rushed but as a character piece about a cold blooded Bond struggling with a softer side it works really well. QOS wants to be a character piece about Bond coming to terms with Vesper's death but it fails because there's too much stuff crammed into a very short run time.
  • StirredNotShakenStirredNotShaken Toronto
    Posts: 2,402
    I agree that QoS made terrible use of its' locations. Even with the shitty title cards I continuously forget where we are. When the horse race starts in Sienna (the most useless shot in the entire history of Bond, easily) I always end up thinking it's Barcelona instead. The desert shots make me think of the Middle East often and not South America.
  • Matt_HelmMatt_Helm
    Posts: 908
    StirredNotShaken wrote:
    I agree that QoS made terrible use of its' locations. Even with the shitty title cards I continuously forget where we are. When the horse race starts in Sienna (the most useless shot in the entire history of Bond, easily) I always end up thinking it's Barcelona instead. The desert shots make me think of the Middle East often and not South America.

    "the most useless shot in the entire history of Bond, easily"
    You do realize that this is meant metaphoric in regard to the race that is going to start between Bond and M's bodyguard,do you?
  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    StirredNotShaken wrote:
    I agree that QoS made terrible use of its' locations. Even with the shitty title cards I continuously forget where we are. When the horse race starts in Sienna (the most useless shot in the entire history of Bond, easily) I always end up thinking it's Barcelona instead. The desert shots make me think of the Middle East often and not South America.

    "the most useless shot in the entire history of Bond, easily"
    You do realize that this is meant metaphoric in regard to the race that is going to start between Bond and M's bodyguard,do you?

    Bring that "sentence" into my garage and I'll give it a grammatical and syntactical overhaul--free of charge.

  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited February 2014 Posts: 11,189
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    StirredNotShaken wrote:
    I agree that QoS made terrible use of its' locations. Even with the shitty title cards I continuously forget where we are. When the horse race starts in Sienna (the most useless shot in the entire history of Bond, easily) I always end up thinking it's Barcelona instead. The desert shots make me think of the Middle East often and not South America.

    "the most useless shot in the entire history of Bond, easily"
    You do realize that this is meant metaphoric in regard to the race that is going to start between Bond and M's bodyguard,do you?

    I get it...I understand what that metaphor was trying to do, but I'm not sure it completely works. We should be staying with the characters concerned. To me trying to create those kind of metaphors feel silly and pretentious in a Bond film.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    TWINE has a much more interesting and complex Bond than QOS. Everyone slags off the Brosnan movies, saying there's moments of depth then he just goes back to being super Bond. I'd argue that this applies to QOS more than any other Bond film. You get a good dramatic scene every now and again but then the film will just chuck in another badly edited chase sequence where Bond is unstoppable (in TWINE he dislocates his shoulder and nearly falls off the millennium dome, in QOS he manages to survive the skydive with no injuries at all).

    TWINE has some moments of melodrama sure and the Bond/Elektra relationship feels a little rushed but as a character piece about a cold blooded Bond struggling with a softer side it works really well. QOS wants to be a character piece about Bond coming to terms with Vesper's death but it fails because there's too much stuff crammed into a very short run time.

    Agreed on all counts! TWINE is Brosnan's OHMSS. :)
  • StirredNotShakenStirredNotShaken Toronto
    edited February 2014 Posts: 2,402
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    StirredNotShaken wrote:
    I agree that QoS made terrible use of its' locations. Even with the shitty title cards I continuously forget where we are. When the horse race starts in Sienna (the most useless shot in the entire history of Bond, easily) I always end up thinking it's Barcelona instead. The desert shots make me think of the Middle East often and not South America.

    "the most useless shot in the entire history of Bond, easily"
    You do realize that this is meant metaphoric in regard to the race that is going to start between Bond and M's bodyguard,do you?

    It's already hard enough to follow the 0.00000001 second-per-shot shootout that's going on in the interrogation room, and then Forster or whoever the hell decides "HEY LET'S JUMP TO A HORSE RACE FOR NO REASON!" in yet ANOTHER 0.01-second shot before it goes back to the shootout and makes it look like M's been shot or something. It's awfully done, it's beyond confusing, and I can't believe even you're defending it. Actually, I can believe it.

    Also TWINE is miles, miles, miles better than Quantum of Bullshit (which I think I'm going to start calling it).
  • JohnBarryFanJohnBarryFan
    edited February 2014 Posts: 1,405
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    StirredNotShaken wrote:
    I agree that QoS made terrible use of its' locations. Even with the shitty title cards I continuously forget where we are. When the horse race starts in Sienna (the most useless shot in the entire history of Bond, easily) I always end up thinking it's Barcelona instead. The desert shots make me think of the Middle East often and not South America.


    "the most useless shot in the entire history of Bond, easily"
    You do realize that this is meant metaphoric in regard to the race that is going to start between Bond and M's bodyguard,do you?

    It would have been nice to actually see the chase. All that jumping and crazy editing removed all the fun.
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    StirredNotShaken wrote:
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    StirredNotShaken wrote:
    I agree that QoS made terrible use of its' locations. Even with the shitty title cards I continuously forget where we are. When the horse race starts in Sienna (the most useless shot in the entire history of Bond, easily) I always end up thinking it's Barcelona instead. The desert shots make me think of the Middle East often and not South America.

    "the most useless shot in the entire history of Bond, easily"
    You do realize that this is meant metaphoric in regard to the race that is going to start between Bond and M's bodyguard,do you?

    It's already hard enough to follow the 0.00000001 second-per-shot shootout that's going on in the interrogation room, and then Forster or whoever the hell decides "HEY LET'S JUMP TO A HORSE RACE FOR NO REASON!" in yet ANOTHER 0.01-second shot before it goes back to the shootout and makes it look like M's been shot or something. It's awfully done, it's beyond confusing, and I can't believe even you're defending it. Actually, I can believe it.

    Also TWINE is miles, miles, miles better than Quantum of Bullshit (which I think I'm going to start calling it).

    Very mature.
  • StirredNotShakenStirredNotShaken Toronto
    Posts: 2,402
    MrBond wrote:
    StirredNotShaken wrote:
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    StirredNotShaken wrote:
    I agree that QoS made terrible use of its' locations. Even with the shitty title cards I continuously forget where we are. When the horse race starts in Sienna (the most useless shot in the entire history of Bond, easily) I always end up thinking it's Barcelona instead. The desert shots make me think of the Middle East often and not South America.

    "the most useless shot in the entire history of Bond, easily"
    You do realize that this is meant metaphoric in regard to the race that is going to start between Bond and M's bodyguard,do you?

    It's already hard enough to follow the 0.00000001 second-per-shot shootout that's going on in the interrogation room, and then Forster or whoever the hell decides "HEY LET'S JUMP TO A HORSE RACE FOR NO REASON!" in yet ANOTHER 0.01-second shot before it goes back to the shootout and makes it look like M's been shot or something. It's awfully done, it's beyond confusing, and I can't believe even you're defending it. Actually, I can believe it.

    Also TWINE is miles, miles, miles better than Quantum of Bullshit (which I think I'm going to start calling it).

    Very mature.

    I'm hardly the first on these forums ("bollocks" has the exact same meaning). Not quite sure what you're getting at.
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