Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,823
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Since we are talking about GF, I find TB superior in many ways.

    I find DN, FRWL and TB are superior to GF.

    I couldn't agree more. They're all far superior to GF.
    I also find GF roughly equivalent to YOLT. Where GF is somewhat more realistic, YOLT is faster paced & more fun, so it balances out for me.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Since we are talking about GF, I find TB superior in many ways.

    I find DN, FRWL and TB are superior to GF.

    I couldn't agree more. They're all far superior to GF.

    Nah. You've all lost it.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,357
    RC7 wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Since we are talking about GF, I find TB superior in many ways.

    I find DN, FRWL and TB are superior to GF.

    I couldn't agree more. They're all far superior to GF.

    Nah. You've all lost it.

    Care to explain why?
  • Posts: 4,813
    As long as we're being controversial I think all Connery's movies are a little boring. I could blame it on the time period, but then again we also have 1983's Never Say Never Again, which is the most boring one of all!
    Thunderball is my favorite of his and while it has lots and lots of action, the dragging of the underwater scenes keeps my finger near the fast forward button.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Murdock wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Since we are talking about GF, I find TB superior in many ways.

    I find DN, FRWL and TB are superior to GF.

    I couldn't agree more. They're all far superior to GF.

    Nah. You've all lost it.

    Care to explain why?

    Goldfinger absolutely oozes class and quality. It sheds the teething problems of DN, adds a fuel injection system to the FRWL template and is so much tighter than TB it's like a brand new Michelin next to a puncture.

    It's got a bombastic Barry score, Connery at his absolute finest and features one of the greatest villains in any film, ever. It establishes the worlds most famous car, defines the very notion of a 'title song', it brought Ken Adam to the attention of the world and stands alongside Raiders as a blueprint for perfect Hollywood cinema.

    It's a unique film that captured the Zeitgeist and deserves the adulation it's afforded. It's cinematic Gold.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,007
    GF is classic and has quite a few iconic moments, but it doesn't save the film for me. It's good, just not as good as the few aforementioned Connery titles.
  • Posts: 15,216
    Murdock wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Since we are talking about GF, I find TB superior in many ways.

    I find DN, FRWL and TB are superior to GF.

    Yes me too. In fact GF is the first drop of quality in the franchise, albeit not a very perceptible one.

    I don't hate Goldfinger like some indirectly accuse me of but when I see people say it's the best Bond ever, whether it be word of mouth or voted in some poll, I find it to be phony because it was popular in 1964. It's a decent film but it has it's flaws that drag it down for me. For one, right from the very Beginning, Goldfinger could have had Bond killed in Miami. If Oddjob killed Bond in his hotel room, Goldfinger would have won. But Goldfinger kept letting Bond live as if it was some sort of game. It was Goldfinger's own stupidity that caused his own death and the failure of his operation. If Auric was a smart criminal he would have offed Bond right then and there. Then comes the issue with Bond being captured for a portion of the movie. It's boring. nobody want's to see Bond captured and hardly do anything for 45 minutes. Goldfinger has a good first half but after Bond is captured, the film drops it from there. Not saying it's bad, but it's not worthy of "Best Bond Ever!"

    That's not what bothers me about it. I can understand why Goldfinger kept Bond alive, if only because of his hubris. A mistake yes, but an understandable one given his characters: he'd rather humiliate Bond than kill him, at this point of the story at least.

    The flaws of the movie reside in other places I think: the weakest introduction of the villain until maybe DAF, it is certainly the weakest of the first six Bond, Bond not doing much once he gets captured and being borderline impotent witness during the whole Fort Knox sequence, heavier use of gadgetry, lighter tone, a far more peripheral Bond girl (compare Pussy Galore to Domino, who is literally in the middle of a struggle between Bond and Largo), etc.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited August 2014 Posts: 15,722
    I used to think DN was a bore, but the last time I watched it I found it a good deal more entertaining than GF.

    And I agree with @Master_Dahark: all of Connery's outings have pacing problems, save FRWL. They're great movies but they have some pacing problems here and there.
  • Posts: 908
    Love it or loathe it, but it was GF that made Bond fit for eternity.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    edited August 2014 Posts: 5,080
    After recently watching all the Connery Bonds, my opinion of them has certainly deflated.

    As people have mentioned, pacing is a big issue. IMO, Dr No is the biggest perpetrator when it comes to pacing issues, and is the least entertaining in the series.

    FRWL is one of two, however, where my opinion has somewhat soared. Same with Thunderball.

    And the biggest fall is, you guessed it, Goldfinger. I used to be one of its defenders, it used to be no.3, but I'm afraid I cannot say that now. For the first time, I found Thunderball and FRWL to be the better films. I wouldn't be surprised to see it drop to eleventh place in my updated ranking.

    YOLT has remained static. Average Bond outing, probably sat at around 17th place. I cannot stomach "Bond goes Japanese" more than I can stomach "Jaws gets a girlfriend".

    And I suppose DAF has remained static, too. Perhaps I didn't find as entertaining as I did on previous viewings, but it is still good fun.

    Overall, I find the Connery films to be pretty much average. I'd happily take a Moore or Dalton film over a Connery any day.

    OHMSS will always be my ultimate Bond film.
  • Posts: 1,596
    RC7 wrote: »
    Goldfinger absolutely oozes class and quality. It sheds the teething problems of DN, adds a fuel injection system to the FRWL template and is so much tighter than TB it's like a brand new Michelin next to a puncture.

    It's got a bombastic Barry score, Connery at his absolute finest and features one of the greatest villains in any film, ever. It establishes the worlds most famous car, defines the very notion of a 'title song', it brought Ken Adam to the attention of the world and stands alongside Raiders as a blueprint for perfect Hollywood cinema.

    It's a unique film that captured the Zeitgeist and deserves the adulation it's afforded. It's cinematic Gold.

    I know this is old and my reply is late but THANK YOU! Goldfinger is still awesome.

    I'll add on to it - Guy Hamilton is able to (alongside Connery's swaggering performance) inject SO MUCH class. It is, in my opinion, the classiest Bond film (saying something in a series that prides itself on having class) and it's one of the classiest films ever made.
  • A non-fan friend's opinion on Pierce Brosnan's pain face:
    And second, Pierce Brosnan’s pain face is fired. Zoning out your eyes and showing me your bottom teeth? No. I do not feel your pain with you, Pierce. I just feel embarrassed for you and kind of bored.
  • Posts: 7,653
    Birdleson wrote: »
    GOLDFINGER is still my favorite, and I rematch tim all often. Has been since 1965. It never get's boring. I love everything about it. I'm not being phony.

    Nothing controversial about the truth.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Since we are talking about GF, I find TB superior in many ways.

    I find DN, FRWL and TB are superior to GF.

    Yes me too. In fact GF is the first drop of quality in the franchise, albeit not a very perceptible one.

    TB is the first drop in quality. DAF is the first huge drop in quality. But they are both a drop in the ocean compared to GE.
  • Posts: 15,216
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Since we are talking about GF, I find TB superior in many ways.

    I find DN, FRWL and TB are superior to GF.

    Yes me too. In fact GF is the first drop of quality in the franchise, albeit not a very perceptible one.

    TB is the first drop in quality. DAF is the first huge drop in quality. But they are both a drop in the ocean compared to GE.

    I consider TB far superior to GF (and this is my bit of controversial opinion). TB has a far more involved Bond girl, a more proactive Bond (in GF he almost turns into an impotent witness to the plot), a much darker tone, a better antagonism with the villain too.
  • edited August 2014 Posts: 11,189
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Since we are talking about GF, I find TB superior in many ways.

    I find DN, FRWL and TB are superior to GF.

    Yes me too. In fact GF is the first drop of quality in the franchise, albeit not a very perceptible one.

    TB is the first drop in quality. DAF is the first huge drop in quality. But they are both a drop in the ocean compared to GE.

    Woooawwww. Can't tolerate that. DAF doesn't deserve to clean GE's shoes. Not saying GE doesn't have its problems but at the very least it has a believable Bond girl rather than an annoying piece of comic relief as well a Bond who's in semi-decent physical shape and who doesn't look like he's going to drop to the floor after running a few feet. The iconography in the statue park is better than anything in DAF too.
  • Posts: 7,653
    Birdleson wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    GOLDFINGER is still my favorite, and I rematch tim all often. Has been since 1965. It never get's boring. I love everything about it. I'm not being phony.

    Nothing controversial about the truth.

    That wasn't meant to be controversial, it was in response to a post above saying that those who proclaim that GOLDFINGER is the best in the series are being phony.

    Those that deny GF do not know and or recognize the movie and what important place it takes in the history of cinema and the franchise. They might not like the movie, which I can understand, but GF is a very important movie, a game-changer in cinema.
  • Posts: 7,507
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    GOLDFINGER is still my favorite, and I rematch tim all often. Has been since 1965. It never get's boring. I love everything about it. I'm not being phony.

    Nothing controversial about the truth.

    That wasn't meant to be controversial, it was in response to a post above saying that those who proclaim that GOLDFINGER is the best in the series are being phony.

    Those that deny GF do not know and or recognize the movie and what important place it takes in the history of cinema and the franchise. They might not like the movie, which I can understand, but GF is a very important movie, a game-changer in cinema.

    I think no one here denies Goldfingers importance and iconic status in the history of cinema. Whether it's really "the very best bond film" on the other hand, is still a valid question, both from a subjective and objective view point...
  • Posts: 7,653
    jobo wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    GOLDFINGER is still my favorite, and I rematch tim all often. Has been since 1965. It never get's boring. I love everything about it. I'm not being phony.

    Nothing controversial about the truth.

    That wasn't meant to be controversial, it was in response to a post above saying that those who proclaim that GOLDFINGER is the best in the series are being phony.

    Those that deny GF do not know and or recognize the movie and what important place it takes in the history of cinema and the franchise. They might not like the movie, which I can understand, but GF is a very important movie, a game-changer in cinema.

    I think no one here denies Goldfingers importance and iconic status in the history of cinema. Whether it's really "the very best bond film" on the other hand, is still a valid question, both from a subjective and objective view point...

    I am not even sure what the best movie of the bunch is, I know I find the first four Sean Connery's 007 in a class of their own. Then OHMSS & FYEO are Flemingesque and rather brilliant.
    The modern 007 is far more a bellybutton gazing kind of fellow that needs to wake up and deliver some toprate thriller/actionmovie because Mission Impossible is just doing that much better than the EON franchise has delivered in recent years.

  • edited August 2014 Posts: 908
    SaintMark wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    GOLDFINGER is still my favorite, and I rematch tim all often. Has been since 1965. It never get's boring. I love everything about it. I'm not being phony.

    Nothing controversial about the truth.

    That wasn't meant to be controversial, it was in response to a post above saying that those who proclaim that GOLDFINGER is the best in the series are being phony.

    Those that deny GF do not know and or recognize the movie and what important place it takes in the history of cinema and the franchise. They might not like the movie, which I can understand, but GF is a very important movie, a game-changer in cinema.

    I think no one here denies Goldfingers importance and iconic status in the history of cinema. Whether it's really "the very best bond film" on the other hand, is still a valid question, both from a subjective and objective view point...

    I am not even sure what the best movie of the bunch is, I know I find the first four Sean Connery's 007 in a class of their own. Then OHMSS & FYEO are Flemingesque and rather brilliant.
    The modern 007 is far more a bellybutton gazing kind of fellow that needs to wake up and deliver some toprate thriller/actionmovie because Mission Impossible is just doing that much better than the EON franchise has delivered in recent years.

    Big THIS! (Even though I don't consider MI 4 anything to write home about)
  • Posts: 11,189
    SaintMark wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    GOLDFINGER is still my favorite, and I rematch tim all often. Has been since 1965. It never get's boring. I love everything about it. I'm not being phony.

    Nothing controversial about the truth.

    That wasn't meant to be controversial, it was in response to a post above saying that those who proclaim that GOLDFINGER is the best in the series are being phony.

    Those that deny GF do not know and or recognize the movie and what important place it takes in the history of cinema and the franchise. They might not like the movie, which I can understand, but GF is a very important movie, a game-changer in cinema.

    I think no one here denies Goldfingers importance and iconic status in the history of cinema. Whether it's really "the very best bond film" on the other hand, is still a valid question, both from a subjective and objective view point...

    I am not even sure what the best movie of the bunch is, I know I find the first four Sean Connery's 007 in a class of their own. Then OHMSS & FYEO are Flemingesque and rather brilliant.
    The modern 007 is far more a bellybutton gazing kind of fellow that needs to wake up and deliver some toprate thriller/actionmovie because Mission Impossible is just doing that much better than the EON franchise has delivered in recent years.

    I think, if anything, Craig's Bond is too "working class" to reflect Fleming's character, who was a loner but who could blend into the elite social circles when necessary.
  • Posts: 2,402
    Matt_Helm wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    GOLDFINGER is still my favorite, and I rematch tim all often. Has been since 1965. It never get's boring. I love everything about it. I'm not being phony.

    Nothing controversial about the truth.

    That wasn't meant to be controversial, it was in response to a post above saying that those who proclaim that GOLDFINGER is the best in the series are being phony.

    Those that deny GF do not know and or recognize the movie and what important place it takes in the history of cinema and the franchise. They might not like the movie, which I can understand, but GF is a very important movie, a game-changer in cinema.

    I think no one here denies Goldfingers importance and iconic status in the history of cinema. Whether it's really "the very best bond film" on the other hand, is still a valid question, both from a subjective and objective view point...

    I am not even sure what the best movie of the bunch is, I know I find the first four Sean Connery's 007 in a class of their own. Then OHMSS & FYEO are Flemingesque and rather brilliant.
    The modern 007 is far more a bellybutton gazing kind of fellow that needs to wake up and deliver some toprate thriller/actionmovie because Mission Impossible is just doing that much better than the EON franchise has delivered in recent years.

    Big THIS! (Even though I don't consider MI 4 anything to write home about)

    No, please, before you continue, let me save you the work by writing your post for you...

    Skyfall is a terrible movie which has ruined the Bond franchise forever. Daniel Craig is an emotionless robot puppeteered by Sam Mendes to bring about the death of the Bond series. Despite it making over a billion dollars, there should be no Bond films after Skyfall so that Mendes can't butcher the character anymore.

    Did I get you close enough?
  • Posts: 908
    Matt_Helm wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    GOLDFINGER is still my favorite, and I rematch tim all often. Has been since 1965. It never get's boring. I love everything about it. I'm not being phony.

    Nothing controversial about the truth.

    That wasn't meant to be controversial, it was in response to a post above saying that those who proclaim that GOLDFINGER is the best in the series are being phony.

    Those that deny GF do not know and or recognize the movie and what important place it takes in the history of cinema and the franchise. They might not like the movie, which I can understand, but GF is a very important movie, a game-changer in cinema.

    I think no one here denies Goldfingers importance and iconic status in the history of cinema. Whether it's really "the very best bond film" on the other hand, is still a valid question, both from a subjective and objective view point...

    I am not even sure what the best movie of the bunch is, I know I find the first four Sean Connery's 007 in a class of their own. Then OHMSS & FYEO are Flemingesque and rather brilliant.
    The modern 007 is far more a bellybutton gazing kind of fellow that needs to wake up and deliver some toprate thriller/actionmovie because Mission Impossible is just doing that much better than the EON franchise has delivered in recent years.

    Big THIS! (Even though I don't consider MI 4 anything to write home about)

    No, please, before you continue, let me save you the work by writing your post for you...

    Skyfall is a terrible movie which has ruined the Bond franchise forever. Daniel Craig is an emotionless robot puppeteered by Sam Mendes to bring about the death of the Bond series. Despite it making over a billion dollars, there should be no Bond films after Skyfall so that Mendes can't butcher the character anymore.

    Did I get you close enough?

    IF my post had been concerned with SF you would indeed have gotten the first five words right. FOR YOU this would be an intellectual achievement, for everyone else ....hmmm.
  • I think this is controversial, at least on this site.

    I don't care about Quantum or Mr White and I couldn't care less if they're never even referenced in the future. I'd much rather see SPECTRE come back with Blofeld.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    I think this is controversial, at least on this site.

    I don't care about Quantum or Mr White and I couldn't care less if they're never even referenced in the future. I'd much rather see SPECTRE come back with Blofeld.

    No you're not alone there.

    I'm not so enthused about SPECTRE and Blofeld returning but I believe its inevitable so I'm happy to embrace it when it happens (as long as it's done right).


  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    I like the invisible car, and hope for a gadget laden car soon

    *hides*
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,333
    I actually think that Blofeld dressed in drag in DAF could be seen as Flemingesque. I will explain all in an upcoming blog article on DAF the film.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    I actually think that Blofeld dressed in drag in DAF could be seen as Flemingesque. I will explain all in an upcoming blog article on DAF the film.
    He was a master of disguise, no need to explain. Looking forward to your piece just the same.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,333
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    I actually think that Blofeld dressed in drag in DAF could be seen as Flemingesque. I will explain all in an upcoming blog article on DAF the film.
    He was a master of disguise, no need to explain. Looking forward to your piece just the same.

    Yes, exactly. I was going to write just those words in fact. Many fans seem to overlook this fact yet it is there for all to see in the original Fleming Bond novels!
  • Posts: 11,189
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    I actually think that Blofeld dressed in drag in DAF could be seen as Flemingesque. I will explain all in an upcoming blog article on DAF the film.
    He was a master of disguise, no need to explain. Looking forward to your piece just the same.

    Yes, exactly. I was going to write just those words in fact. Many fans seem to overlook this fact yet it is there for all to see in the original Fleming Bond novels!

    I don't think Blofeld in the books went quite as far into pantomime as Charles Grey did.

    By that logic Colonel Moon turning into Toby Stephens is Fleming-esque too.
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