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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited March 2012 Posts: 15,723
    007RogerMoore wrote:
    I don´t mean that the original was like Moore or anything.

    He was. Moore in TMWTGG is IMO the closest to Fleming's Bond any of the Bond actors has done. Brosnan in DAD, Connery in FRWL and Dalton in TLD come in 2nd.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    facepalm4cr.jpg?width=500&height=432
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    Sorry 0Brady but did you read the same novels than I did ?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    Sorry 0Brady but did you read the same novels than I did ?

    Yes. I see them aligning my bookshelf now. Have you been swigging down any liquid courage?
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    007RogerMoore wrote:
    I don´t mean that the original was like Moore or anything.

    He was. Moore in TMWTGG is IMO the closest to Fleming's Bond any of the Bond actors has done. Brosnan in DAD, Connery in FRWL and Dalton in TLD come in 2nd.

    Before I go straight on the attack here DaltonCraig I need to define what exactly you mean when you claim DAF and TMWTGG are the most Fleming like - because in the quote above you seem to be suggesting that it is Moores performance you are talking about.
    Now I would give some credence to the theory that Moore gets closest to Fleming in TMWTGG (although thats not saying I agree with you) but if you are seriously saying that DAF and TMWTGG as films are closer to Fleming than FRWL, TB, OHMSS and CR then I'm afraid it will have to be business as usual and I'll be forced to rip into you :)
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Ah, DC007, you are, in fact, one of the most controversial in this forum (still not sure where I rank on that list, but considering half of you seem to want me dead for saying I hate Shirley Bassey, I might be close). You're unwavering love of Moore, in the face of all the BS his films have shoved down our throats tells me that you should win some sort of controversy award.

    And, BTW, I bet Fleming would have wanted Moore shot. :)
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    What's wrong with not liking Bassey?, don't feel bad about it whatever you do, you're not entirely alone with your sentiments

    Yes, I can't understand though all the simpering hyperbole that Moore gets sometimes on here, I wouldn't go as far to state his Bond adventures were Bull, Yes that did come to the fore on occasion that I don't need to elaborate on, but he's not the worst 007 we ever saw and did actually give us some damn fine Bond adventures

    For all the tarzan yells, Clown 'fits, Crocodile disguises, etc and all round nonsense sometimes of his tenure, there are indeed plenty of positives to take. One good example of this would be to watch the entire duration of For Your Eyes Only and look back at a time when Moore actually could be the genuine article and play it straight and something to be proud of
  • jolearonjolearon
    Posts: 645
    "Moore Whoores" ROFL =)) :-))
    Agent007391 wrote:
    Y'know, you Moore Whoores keep spouting out what Bond "should be". Here's the reality of it: Bond is what he is according to the times, and everything changes with the times. In the 60s, we just wanted the dawn of the spy genre. In the 70s, we wanted the over-the-topness of those kinds of antics. In the 80s, we wanted somewhere in between the antics and reality. In the 90s, we wanted it to be closer to reality but still with the antics. At first, in the 2000s, we wanted CG and "epic", and now we want realism again. Since we've seen Bond go all across the spectrum, just go back to what your favorite type of Bond, watch the DVD, and then wait for that era to return. Life is a cycle, it will come back.

  • VirageVirage
    Posts: 1,856
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    007RogerMoore wrote:
    Bond is not supposed to be a real agent or human, who bleeds and cries. He is supposed to go around cracking jokes, using gadgets and stopping crazy villians with strong henchmen and a lair with guards in uniform.
    Someone obviously hasn't read the novels. You know, those things portraying Bond as he's SUPPOSED TO BE.

    I have read the novels.. and IMO DAF and TMWTGG are 2 closest to Fleming the movies have ever got.

    So cutting out the story's first act makes it closer to the book.... Compared to Thunderball where the plot is followed to the letter.... Right 8-|
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,387
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    We are talking about CR 2006 are we not CR67 here? You know the film that once it gets to Montenegro is probably the closest we have to a straight adaptation of a Fleming novel since OHMSS?

    CR 2006 destroyed the original novel. There's not an ounce of Fleming in that film... for me it's just Bourne and Statham blended together.

    That's crazytalk. You can hate on Craig all you want, but the story is largely Fleming.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    echo wrote:
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    We are talking about CR 2006 are we not CR67 here? You know the film that once it gets to Montenegro is probably the closest we have to a straight adaptation of a Fleming novel since OHMSS?

    CR 2006 destroyed the original novel. There's not an ounce of Fleming in that film... for me it's just Bourne and Statham blended together.

    That's crazytalk. You can hate on Craig all you want, but the story is largely Fleming.

    No it isn't, James Bond in CR, the novel, is nowhere close to James Bond the Thug from the movie. The James Bond from the novel is vunerable and the tale is a sober one, CR'06 is not sober and that Bond is more of a thug than anything else. The movie mishandled the frame of mind of 007 and the death of Vesper all in favor of a great actioner. I do not see now why they needed the so-called reboot. They could just have gone on from Brosnan as happened before.

    And I do hope that with Bond23 Craig finaly gets a decent 007 outing. Otherwise he'll be remembered as the most wasted actor in a franchise.
  • 007RogerMoore007RogerMoore
    Posts: 1,082
    jolearon wrote:
    "Moore Whoores" ROFL =)) :-))
    Agent007391 wrote:
    Y'know, you Moore Whoores keep spouting out what Bond "should be". Here's the reality of it: Bond is what he is according to the times, and everything changes with the times. In the 60s, we just wanted the dawn of the spy genre. In the 70s, we wanted the over-the-topness of those kinds of antics. In the 80s, we wanted somewhere in between the antics and reality. In the 90s, we wanted it to be closer to reality but still with the antics. At first, in the 2000s, we wanted CG and "epic", and now we want realism again. Since we've seen Bond go all across the spectrum, just go back to what your favorite type of Bond, watch the DVD, and then wait for that era to return. Life is a cycle, it will come back.

    I gotta agree that it was a good line, even though a probably qualify as one myself.
    Now what´s the best nickname for the book fans? Book nerds? Fleming Whores?/JK

  • identigraphidentigraph
    Posts: 1,052
    Does anyone think Fleming would actually care about how the screen Bond was portrayed as long as the money kept rolling in?
  • 007RogerMoore007RogerMoore
    Posts: 1,082
    Here might be some controversial picks: (Big letters is the prefered movie)

    DN-FRWL
    FRWL-GF
    GF-TB
    TB-YOLT
    YOLT-OHMSS
    OHMSS-DAF
    DAF-LALD
    LALD-TMWTGG
    TMWTGG-TSWLM
    TSWLM-MR
    MR-FYEO
    FYEO-OP
    OP-AVTAK
    AVTAK-TLD
    TLD-LTK
    LTK-GE
    GE-TND
    TND-TWINE
    TWINE-DAD
    DAD-CR
    CR-QOS
    QOS-DN
  • 007RogerMoore007RogerMoore
    edited March 2012 Posts: 1,082
    Blofeld ranking:

    1. Pleasence
    2. Grey
    3. Savalas

    Stromberg, Drax, Carver, Scaramanga and Dr.No are the 5 greatest villians.

    Stamper is a great henchman, but Nick Nack is number 1.
  • WVPoefWVPoef
    Posts: 147
    Agent007391 wrote:
    Ah, DC007, you are, in fact, one of the most controversial in this forum (still not sure where I rank on that list, but considering half of you seem to want me dead for saying I hate Shirley Bassey, I might be close). You're unwavering love of Moore, in the face of all the BS his films have shoved down our throats tells me that you should win some sort of controversy award.

    And, BTW, I bet Fleming would have wanted Moore shot. :)

    Totally agree regarding DC007

    I for one like that Roger MOore took Bond and made it his own and in doing that keeping the Franchise alive, I also love most of his movies but to say that his portrayal of Bond and his movies are the closest to what Fleming wanted it to be are laughable.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    WVPoef wrote:
    I for one like that Roger MOore took Bond and made it his own and in doing that keeping the Franchise alive, I also love most of his movies but to say that his portrayal of Bond and his movies are the closest to what Fleming wanted it to be are laughable.

    IMO saying that Craig and his films are close to Fleming is much more laughable. Atleast the Moore outings and Connery's last outing were much, much closer to the atmoshere and feel of the novels.

    Being close to Fleming isn't just following the plots, it's about conveying the feel and atmosphere featured in Fleming's oeuvre. DAF and TMWTGG may not follow their original sources' plots to the letter, but atleast they have a near identical atmoshere at times.

    Not only did CR '06 destroy the novel, it has a polar opposite atmosphere than the one in the novels. Craig's films couldn't be further from the novels. So saying his 2 films are the closest to Fleming is utter rubbish, IMO.

    I say again, Fleming's books aren't just plots, they are atmosphere. Something CR '06 completly fails at, and TMWTGG '74 and DAF' 71 are very successful at.
  • identigraphidentigraph
    Posts: 1,052
    I agree DC007, the atmosphere and feel of Fleming is often overlooked and lets not foget that there was silliness and innuendo in the books, Pussy Galore did originate in the books after all.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    I'd say DC is partially right. I don't believe Fleming intended for people to take his stories 100% seriously. They were meant to be slightly "larger than life" in their approach to espionage BUT they were relitively straight faced.

    Fleming would describe the most ridiculous implausable situations in a serious manner.
  • WVPoefWVPoef
    Posts: 147
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    WVPoef wrote:
    I for one like that Roger MOore took Bond and made it his own and in doing that keeping the Franchise alive, I also love most of his movies but to say that his portrayal of Bond and his movies are the closest to what Fleming wanted it to be are laughable.

    IMO saying that Craig and his films are close to Fleming is much more laughable. Atleast the Moore outings and Connery's last outing were much, much closer to the atmoshere and feel of the novels.

    Being close to Fleming isn't just following the plots, it's about conveying the feel and atmosphere featured in Fleming's oeuvre. DAF and TMWTGG may not follow their original sources' plots to the letter, but atleast they have a near identical atmoshere at times.

    Not only did CR '06 destroy the novel, it has a polar opposite atmosphere than the one in the novels. Craig's films couldn't be further from the novels. So saying his 2 films are the closest to Fleming is utter rubbish, IMO.

    I say again, Fleming's books aren't just plots, they are atmosphere. Something CR '06 completely fails at, and TMWTGG '74 and DAF' 71 are very successful at.

    Keep telling yourself that bud! =))

    You got it all figured out and now you want to shovel your BS down everyone throats.

    I'm completely on the opposite regarding to what you have to say here. TMWTGG and DAF are enjoyable and fun to watch but does not even come close to the Bond Fleming wanted, atmosphere included.

  • WVPoefWVPoef
    Posts: 147
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I'd say DC is partially right. I don't believe Fleming intended for people to take his stories 100% seriously. They were meant to be slightly "larger than life" in their approach to espionage BUT they were relitively straight faced.

    Fleming would describe the most ridiculous implausable situations in a serious manner.

    Yes I agree with you but I believe that TMWGG and parsley DAF took it to far.
  • 007RogerMoore007RogerMoore
    Posts: 1,082
    TMWTGG is the ultimate Bond film. Saying a bad word about is blasphemy! :D
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited March 2012 Posts: 15,723
    WVPoef wrote:
    You got it all figured out and now you want to shovel your BS down everyone throats.

    The only one telling BS here is you.

    It's my opinion I have about Fleming, please respect it. Don't you understand that some people may have different views on things than you ? Doesn't make their opinions wrong. So please get off your high horse and calm down. Don't be so upset because someone has a different opinion on Fleming than you... you aren't the master of truth here... I was merely stating my opinion, so there's no need to be rude. So what if I think DAF and TMWTGG are the most Flemingesque films ? Are you going to suffocate if you read that ? Will your insides turn into black pudding if someone disagrees with you ?
  • WVPoefWVPoef
    Posts: 147
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    WVPoef wrote:
    You got it all figured out and now you want to shovel your BS down everyone throats.

    The only one telling BS here is you.

    It's my opinion I have about Fleming, please respect it. Don't you understand that some people may have different views on things than you ? Doesn't make their opinions wrong. So please get off your high horse and calm down. Don't be so upset because someone has a different opinion on Fleming than you... you aren't the master of truth here... I was merely stating my opinion, so there's no need to be rude. So what if I think DAF and TMWTGG are the most Flemingesque films ? Are you going to suffocate if you read that ? Will your insides turn into black pudding if someone disagrees with you ?

    Same should be said about you bud. Hope you practice what you preach...
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited March 2012 Posts: 15,723
    WVPoef wrote:
    Same should be said about you bud. Hope you practice what you preach...

    =)) I didn't lose my temper like you did... I wasn't rude to anyone here, I was simply stating my opinion... but of course you had to come here and call my views 'shit' because you can't accept that someone may have a different opinion than you,
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,999
    [-X

    Allright chaps, keep it civil.
  • 007RogerMoore007RogerMoore
    Posts: 1,082
    Another opinion then: TWINE would have been great if it had scrapped the drama and kept focus on the action and humourus parts, as well as briefing scenes. The BMW and the boat is great, and several of the action scenes are very good, my favorite being the one at the caviar facility.
  • JWESTBROOKJWESTBROOK
    Posts: 5,745
    ^TWINE could have been excellent. We had a submarine finale to work with! Yet, they mucked it up. I blame poor direction. If you look at Brosnan's run, GoldenEye is commonly his best amongst viewers. Why? Campbell. The other three had little named directors, who really couldn't produce anything flashy enough to enjoy. It felt like they read the script for that day, and put a camera on the actors. No 'emotion' or 'personality' was given to the films. It was a read-aloud script in TND and TWINE.

    You had many great opportunities and set ups with the plot behind TWINE, just an extremely poor execution.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    007RogerMoore wrote:
    TMWTGG is the ultimate Bond film. Saying a bad word about is blasphemy! :D

    Nick Nack is a midget.
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    It's my opinion I have about Fleming, please respect it. Don't you understand that some people may have different views on things than you ? Doesn't make their opinions wrong. So please get off your high horse and calm down. Don't be so upset because someone has a different opinion on Fleming than you... you aren't the master of truth here... I was merely stating my opinion, so there's no need to be rude. So what if I think DAF and TMWTGG are the most Flemingesque films ? Are you going to suffocate if you read that ? Will your insides turn into black pudding if someone disagrees with you ?

    I'm going to agree with what you say about opinions. Don't get me wrong, every time I've argued with you, I've still respected you, even if you haven't seen it. But, the second I read what I bolded above, I swear to God I tasted pudding.
    007RogerMoore wrote:
    Another opinion then: TWINE would have been great if it had scrapped the drama and kept focus on the action and humourus parts, as well as briefing scenes. The BMW and the boat is great, and several of the action scenes are very good, my favorite being the one at the caviar facility.

    TWINE would have been awesome!!! In another universe!!!
    007RogerMoore wrote:
    jolearon wrote:
    "Moore Whoores" ROFL =)) :-))

    I gotta agree that it was a good line, even though a probably qualify as one myself.
    Now what´s the best nickname for the book fans? Book nerds? Fleming Whores?/JK

    I thought it up seconds before I posted it, and it only works because it rhymes.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    identigraph wrote:
    Does anyone think Fleming would actually care about how the screen Bond was portrayed as long as the money kept rolling in?

    He would laugh all the way to the bank and enjoy a lavish lifestyle thanks to his writings.

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