Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • AntiLocqueBrakesAntiLocqueBrakes The edge
    Posts: 538
    I'm with you on this. Davi is the best part. In fact, Dalton has a lot of help in both his movies from the villains. Davi prepared well for the role though (traveling to Columbia, brushing up on Spanish). Real professional.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    edited August 2015 Posts: 7,314
    Okay, here's one. I'm not sure if this is the proper venue or not. To those people who only like a handful of Bond films, I'm not sure why you're here. It's a valid opinion, for sure, but I'm not sure why you'd bother to join the community. I guess I'm just an eternal optimist. To each their own.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,568
    Completely agree. I don't 'dislike' any of the films or dismiss them altogether- except perhaps CR'67- but that is clearly a spoof/parody film, so completely justified IMO. To me, it just seems like one is hindering themselves, and each film has something going for it- even the aforementioned CR'67, which, while I admit I will probably never watch a third time, has the beautiful and amazing 'The Look of Love', to compliment the scene with Andress. What I don't understand, as pointed out by other members here, is how so called 'Fleming purists' can dismiss the continuation novels but are more than happy to watch the films and fork out money for movie tickets every other year. Is there more to this- or just a simple case of people being hypocrites? :))
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I do admit, I really enjoy CR67's soundtrack as well as LeChiffre's "Torture of the Mind." scene. Something so trippy and cool about it.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,568
    @Birdleson I've read everywhere that Colonel Sun is one of the better non-Fleming novels, and closest to Fleming's style. I picked up the novel in a bookstore just this year (picked up 13 of them in the one store- all at once, actually!), so I'm most intrigued/looking forward to reading that one in particular. What I'm referring to is not the members who dismiss the continuation novels based on quality/closeness to Fleming, but simply because they are not penned by Fleming himself, period. I've read Gardner's 'Licence Renewed', and while it is no FRWL or TB, it was decent enough to keep me reading until the end. Anyway, I admit I have yet to read all of the novels, so perhaps it is premature for me to pass on my opinion regarding them.
  • Here's a few controversial opinons:

    1. Goldfinger is vastly overrated (largely due to nostalgia goggles)
    2. Thunderball is woefully boring and borderline unwatchable
    3. Lazenby gave one of the best Bond performances
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I have watched CASINO ROYALE (1967) over a dozen times since the early '70s. I've actually grown to like most segments, but it took many years.
    I think they call that brain-washing ;)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Here's a few controversial opinons:

    1. Goldfinger is vastly overrated (largely due to nostalgia goggles)
    2. Thunderball is woefully boring and borderline unwatchable
    3. Lazenby gave one of the best Bond performances

    The 3rd opinion seems to be the norm on this forum with many.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Here's a few controversial opinons:

    1. Goldfinger is vastly overrated (largely due to nostalgia goggles)
    2. Thunderball is woefully boring and borderline unwatchable
    3. Lazenby gave one of the best Bond performances

    1. True to some extend.
    2. True
    3. Spot-on true.
  • Posts: 1,405
    Walecs wrote: »
    I think Priscilla Barnes is wonderfull in Three's Company.

    You're right, but Joyce DeWitt, in my opinion, remains the most beautiful woman who ever walked the earth.

  • Posts: 1,405
    Here's a few controversial opinons:



    1. Goldfinger is vastly overrated (largely due to nostalgia goggles)
    2. Thunderball is woefully boring and borderline unwatchable
    3. Lazenby gave one of the best Bond performances

    1. True to some extend.
    2. True
    3. Spot-on true.

    1. Not overrated, just lacking action
    2. True, TB rest at the bottom 3 with TMWTGG and DAD
    3. Coudn't agree more. WWWAAAYYYY underestimated, underapprecited.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Walecs wrote: »
    I think Priscilla Barnes is wonderfull in Three's Company.

    You're right, but Joyce DeWitt, in my opinion, remains the most beautiful woman who ever walked the earth.

    Now that is what I call a controversial opinion.......imho of course
  • Posts: 1,405
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I have watched CASINO ROYALE (1967) over a dozen times since the early '70s. I've actually grown to like most segments, but it took many years.

    I personnaly coudn't get past the first 35 minutes. Utterly boring, dismal stuff.
    To tell you the truth, only a cameo by Alexandra Bastedo had me going past the first 15 minutes, as I was waiting for her to reappear.
  • Posts: 15,111
    Walecs wrote: »
    trevanian wrote: »
    There are a few patches in SPY that I'd keep, but basically I consider it a schizophrenic Matt Helm movie that forgets itself when Moore pumps four bullets into Stromberg. It's like getting the CR torture chair scene in
    Legitimising NSNA would be tantamount to p*ssing on Cubby's grave.

    So what is the downside here?

    A guy who kept McClory from exercising his rightful legal option for years just keeps getting more and more good press, even after he shuffles off? He gets no pass from me, and that goes back to when I was 20 and it was announced he was getting the Thalberg; I kicked a hole in a board I was so pissed.

    I refuse to believe that McClory was the real author of Thunderball and Blofeld, and the fact he ripped off Blofeld's cat from EON's movies proves it.

    Agreed on this. Blofeld is pure Fleming. And if someone else deserves credit for Blofeld it is Arthur Conan Doyle for creating Moriarty. And Stoker for creating Dracula.
  • eddychaputeddychaput Montreal, Canada
    Posts: 364
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    trevanian wrote: »
    There are a few patches in SPY that I'd keep, but basically I consider it a schizophrenic Matt Helm movie that forgets itself when Moore pumps four bullets into Stromberg. It's like getting the CR torture chair scene in
    Legitimising NSNA would be tantamount to p*ssing on Cubby's grave.

    So what is the downside here?

    A guy who kept McClory from exercising his rightful legal option for years just keeps getting more and more good press, even after he shuffles off? He gets no pass from me, and that goes back to when I was 20 and it was announced he was getting the Thalberg; I kicked a hole in a board I was so pissed.

    I refuse to believe that McClory was the real author of Thunderball and Blofeld, and the fact he ripped off Blofeld's cat from EON's movies proves it.

    Agreed on this. Blofeld is pure Fleming. And if someone else deserves credit for Blofeld it is Arthur Conan Doyle for creating Moriarty. And Stoker for creating Dracula.

    Nice comparison between Moriarty and Blofed. The thought had crossed my mind once or twice as well.
  • Posts: 15,111
    eddychaput wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    trevanian wrote: »
    There are a few patches in SPY that I'd keep, but basically I consider it a schizophrenic Matt Helm movie that forgets itself when Moore pumps four bullets into Stromberg. It's like getting the CR torture chair scene in
    Legitimising NSNA would be tantamount to p*ssing on Cubby's grave.

    So what is the downside here?

    A guy who kept McClory from exercising his rightful legal option for years just keeps getting more and more good press, even after he shuffles off? He gets no pass from me, and that goes back to when I was 20 and it was announced he was getting the Thalberg; I kicked a hole in a board I was so pissed.

    I refuse to believe that McClory was the real author of Thunderball and Blofeld, and the fact he ripped off Blofeld's cat from EON's movies proves it.

    Agreed on this. Blofeld is pure Fleming. And if someone else deserves credit for Blofeld it is Arthur Conan Doyle for creating Moriarty. And Stoker for creating Dracula.

    Nice comparison between Moriarty and Blofed. The thought had crossed my mind once or twice as well.

    Moriarty was the archetype for many nemesis (nemesises?) and also like Blofeld an involuntary one.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    edited August 2015 Posts: 5,080
    pachazo wrote: »
    Okay, here's one. I'm not sure if this is the proper venue or not. To those people who only like a handful of Bond films, I'm not sure why you're here. It's a valid opinion, for sure, but I'm not sure why you'd bother to join the community. I guess I'm just an eternal optimist. To each their own.

    Agree whole-heartedly there.
    Walecs wrote: »
    trevanian wrote: »
    There are a few patches in SPY that I'd keep, but basically I consider it a schizophrenic Matt Helm movie that forgets itself when Moore pumps four bullets into Stromberg. It's like getting the CR torture chair scene in
    Legitimising NSNA would be tantamount to p*ssing on Cubby's grave.

    So what is the downside here?

    A guy who kept McClory from exercising his rightful legal option for years just keeps getting more and more good press, even after he shuffles off? He gets no pass from me, and that goes back to when I was 20 and it was announced he was getting the Thalberg; I kicked a hole in a board I was so pissed.

    I refuse to believe that McClory was the real author of Thunderball and Blofeld, and the fact he ripped off Blofeld's cat from EON's

    Me too. McGlory did great harm to the series, and I don't just mean him concocting the monstrosity that is NSNA. McG thieving the rights to Blofeld/SPECTRE meant that films such as TSWLM were worse off for it and could have been even better (saying that, it's already my no.3) with Blofeld as the villain. Also, one chap that always gets left out of this mess is poor ol' Jack Whittingham, who McG basically screwed over.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    And that's why it would make sense if Moriarty would turn out to be Blofeld.
    I can imagine Purvis, Wade, BB + MGW finding that possibility terrific, if you get what I mean.
  • Posts: 15,111
    And that's why it would make sense if Moriarty would turn out to be Blofeld.
    I can imagine Purvis, Wade, BB + MGW finding that possibility terrific, if you get what I mean.

    Andrew Scott was cast because he was cheaper than Chiwetel Ejiofor. Not exactly a telltale sign of him turning up to be Blofeld.

    And on a side note, his Moriarty has almost nothing in common to the literary character. Except the name.
  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    edited August 2015 Posts: 1,263
    bondjames wrote: »
    The 3rd opinion seems to be the norm on this forum with many.
    Not with me. Lazenby gave an adequate performance considering his background. I'm willing to bet that most people who put Lazenby and On Her Majesty's Secret Service on a pedestal are swept up by the story and the moments contained within more than any other factor, with exception to the soundtrack of course.

    Edit: I should expand my thought so it is clearly understood. When we are talking about performance quality, I relate that heavily to experiencing the same emotion as the character the actor is portraying. Lazenby is rather average, possibly even pedestrian, in this regard. His delivery at the end is a great example. People praise it and rave about it. In my opinion, if it was so great, I should feel at least some sense of disillusion as the character is experiencing with the way the dialogue is scripted. He just lost the love of his life and all I do is feel sad -- not heartbroken. A great performance would do just that for me.
  • AntiLocqueBrakesAntiLocqueBrakes The edge
    Posts: 538
    If OHMSS is a great movie, it's not because of Lazenby, I would agree with the above. The telling part for me is when he's talking to Blofield on the couches. Looks sheepish. Like a schoolboy getting a lecture from a master. Compare to Connery's original encounter with Dr. No at the dinner table or Moore with Scaramanga or Craig with Silva.

    Lazenby doesn't get enough credit, IMO for his action sequences though, especially the fight scenes. Very athletic, and I love the way the scenes are cut and stilted. A lot like the action scenes of today.
  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    Posts: 1,263
    Lazenby doesn't get enough credit, IMO for his action sequences though, especially the fight scenes. Very athletic, and I love the way the scenes are cut and stilted. A lot like the action scenes of today.
    I agree on this point. Lazenby was a real bruiser and very convincing in the action sequences.

    In terms of the two love deaths (Tracy and Vesper), Craig definitely blows Lazenby out of the water in terms of performance quality. Everything down to the smallest detail he puts into it from the rate of breath to the lines around his eyes. It's hard not to put yourself through the same feeling. There is an old expression that rings true for that moment: silence can be eloquent. The silence speaks louder than the dialogue in one's heart.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Mansfield wrote: »
    Lazenby doesn't get enough credit, IMO for his action sequences though, especially the fight scenes. Very athletic, and I love the way the scenes are cut and stilted. A lot like the action scenes of today.
    I agree on this point. Lazenby was a real bruiser and very convincing in the action sequences.

    In terms of the two love deaths (Tracy and Vesper), Craig definitely blows Lazenby out of the water in terms of performance quality. Everything down to the smallest detail he puts into it from the rate of breath to the lines around his eyes. It's hard not to put yourself through the same feeling. There is an old expression that rings true for that moment: silence can be eloquent. The silence speaks louder than the dialogue in one's heart.

    It's an unfair comparison.

    Tracy was shot and immediately dead. Lazenby could not do anything than hold her and say those last famous words, with certainty she was gone forever.

    Vesper drowned at her own wish. Bond was in despair, he tried to save her and fought to revive her. After that he was totally exhausted.
    This scene is so much more complex than the simple shooting of Tracy.
    Craig did fine, he seems to have the man in despair spot-on and he can very well play the exhausted man after running, fighting, saving, being tortured etc.

    Lazenby gave a marvelous performance in that last scene. He hit it 100% and didn't overact.
    One of the best scenes in any Bond movie.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    edited August 2015 Posts: 5,080
    Tracey's death scene had a far greater impact on me than Vesper's. The suddenness of the scene, the contrast of the optimistic and radiant Tracey in the scene beforehand, looking forward to a new life, then the shot of the bullet hole in the windscreen, all that gone, and Lazenby's heartfelt reaction still upsets me somewhat after so many viewings of the film.

    With Vesper's case, although still a tragic scene, it doesn't have the same effect with me. I'm not particularly enthralled with the sinking house setting, and the shots of her locked in the lift is all a bit blah to me. And the attempt to revive her after getting her out just comes across, for want of a better word, a bit cliche. They should have stuck with the novel.
  • Posts: 15,111
    Birdleson wrote: »
    It would be pretty low and distasteful if EON used the same actor who surprisingly turned out to be Sherlock Holmes' main nemesis on a television show to surprisingly turn out to be James Bond's main nemesis in a major motion picture a few years later. I will bum out if that is the case.

    That's not controversial. That's commonsense. Heck, that's sanity!
  • Posts: 7,507
    Ludovico wrote: »
    And that's why it would make sense if Moriarty would turn out to be Blofeld.
    I can imagine Purvis, Wade, BB + MGW finding that possibility terrific, if you get what I mean.

    Andrew Scott was cast because he was cheaper than Chiwetel Ejiofor. Not exactly a telltale sign of him turning up to be Blofeld.

    And on a side note, his Moriarty has almost nothing in common to the literary character. Except the name.


    Just out of curiosity: How do you know that? Is it speculation or do you have a source?
  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    Posts: 1,263
    @BondJasonBon006 If you read my posts carefully you will see I am not comparing them directly, but only strictly in their own context.

    I'm not quite sure his performance can be called marvelous. It's way too composed to convey the feeling that is requested of the dialogue.

    Screen_Shot_2015_08_30_at_3_28_22_PM.png

    That face doesn't say, "my love is lost." If you show that still to people unfamiliar with the franchise and asked them what is going on there, you would get a lot of different answers as to the emotion he is showing. The reason: Because it is not very descript.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Yes Bond acted composed when realising what happened and I believe that's what was asked of Lazenby.
    And luckily so, an obvious tear-jerker scene (like the one when M dies in SF) would have been unfitting and stupid even.
  • Posts: 15,111
    jobo wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    And that's why it would make sense if Moriarty would turn out to be Blofeld.
    I can imagine Purvis, Wade, BB + MGW finding that possibility terrific, if you get what I mean.

    Andrew Scott was cast because he was cheaper than Chiwetel Ejiofor. Not exactly a telltale sign of him turning up to be Blofeld.

    And on a side note, his Moriarty has almost nothing in common to the literary character. Except the name.


    Just out of curiosity: How do you know that? Is it speculation or do you have a source?

    It was mentioned in various articles quoted in various threads here.
  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    edited August 2015 Posts: 1,263
    Yes Bond acted composed when realising what happened and I believe that's what was asked of Lazenby.
    And luckily so, an obvious tear-jerker scene (like the one when M dies in SF) would have been unfitting and stupid even.
    Perhaps that is the case. A death scene doesn't always need to have tears. The point I am making is that his acting inexperience shows. The pictures show he is not fully immersed within his own character. He does squeeze his brows together slightly, so you can see mild distress. The clever thing about the face is that emotions are detected in multiple locations. His mouth and jaw are held ordinary in this scene. It's incongruent to what he is doing with his eyes. It just looks like he is squinting.

    If you want to see what I mean, take a look at the more stoic Mathis death scene in Quantum Of Solace. You can see Craig clench his teeth and it adds a shadow of despair across his face without resorting to crying or like overflows of emotion.
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