Controversial opinions about Bond films

1158159161163164707

Comments

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    I've said it elsewhere before, but as amazing as FRWL is, DN is my favorite Connery entry.
  • Posts: 15,114
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I've said it elsewhere before, but as amazing as FRWL is, DN is my favorite Connery entry.

    There's a difference between favourite and greatest.
  • edited January 2016 Posts: 1,596
    Ludovico wrote: »
    @ThingsofXenia You can be critical about the Blofeld/Bond connection and as a creative decision it is questionable. The problem I think @RC7 and myself have about the criticism it has received is that people exaggerate its importance. It's there but Blofeld and Bond are not foster brothers, they are not blood brothers, this is not Cain and Abel.

    You might be interpreting our criticisms a bit too literally. They were essentially brothers for a time, is the way I understood it - not blood brothers, not officially foster brothers, but due to Bond's parents' death, Oberhauser Sr. took him in. They had a "brotherly situation" I suppose would be exactly how I would put it. I was just throwing those labels out there essentially as shorthand.

    What I'm really getting at is your first sentence - I think it is an awful creative decision to have them connected like that. For me it is contrived as hell, and as juvenile and preposterous as anything in the oft-maligned latter half of DAD.
  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    Posts: 1,130
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I've said it elsewhere before, but as amazing as FRWL is, DN is my favorite Connery entry.

    There's a difference between favourite and greatest.

    Yes it is but it can get a little confussing and its not the same thing saying greatest as a statement and as an opinion.

    As for Dr No its also my favorite Connery entry along with Thunderball, actually from the first 4 connery entries From Russia with love is my least favorite

  • Posts: 15,114
    They were in a "brotherly situation," but the brotherly parentage if you will was Blofeld's assessment and assumption. And again it was to a degree. Like I said earlier, it was not Cain and Abel.

    It is contrived, but no more no less than other common tropes in genre fiction. In the novels, Bond meets Goldfinger at complete random, he also stumbles on SPECTRE's scheme in Shrublands. Nemesis are bound to meet, sooner or later. I do agree that it was not necessary: Blofeld's position and role of leader would have been enough to create an antagonism with Bond that is more personal. But the way it was developed, I am ok with it.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited January 2016 Posts: 9,117
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    @ThingsofXenia You can be critical about the Blofeld/Bond connection and as a creative decision it is questionable. The problem I think @RC7 and myself have about the criticism it has received is that people exaggerate its importance. It's there but Blofeld and Bond are not foster brothers, they are not blood brothers, this is not Cain and Abel.

    But that's not the issue. However it's labeled ("brothers", "foster Brothers"), EON and Mendes felt it necessary to tie the past of Bond and Blofeld together in an obtrusive and unnecessary fashion. They obviously were gunning for that "Cain and Able" angle. Otherwise, why even bother at all.

    Another film where Bond can't seem to be sent on a mission that doesn't entangle his or M's personal past.

    I'm with @Birdleson here.

    Although the way they went about it in the finished film wasn't too bad (you have to question what the point was at all as Bond seems utterly nonplussed by it) the fact that it's there at all is objectionable.

    As if it's not enough to convolutedly tie all the Craig films together they have to shoehorn in this extra unconvincing layer of personal connection between Bond and the villain.

    Either dump the brother idea altogether (my personal preference) or if you must use it have Oberhauser be a standalone villain a la Largo and Blofeld just appears in shadowy form in the board room and in a final shot at the end.

    I could probably live with the brother thing if it was just Franz Oberhauser, a character created for the film, but don't use this plot device to piss all over the character of Blofeld and his relationship with Bond.
  • Posts: 15,114
    Like I said, I don't think it was necessary, but did not mind the execution.

    Another controversial opinion: Grant is the main antagonist in FRWL.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Ludovico wrote: »

    Another controversial opinion: Grant is the main antagonist in FRWL.

    Wouldn't say that's particularly controversial.

    Depends how you want to define 'main'?

    In terms of screen time, interaction with Bond etc then clearly he is.

    But if you mean in terms of instigating the plan then no he is merely a blunt instrument working for SPECTRE.

    I would agree he is the main antagonist as if you say Blofeld is then you also have to say he is the main antagonist in TB and DN also as Grant, Largo and Doctor No himself are all just carrying out Blofeld's orders.

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I've said it elsewhere before, but as amazing as FRWL is, DN is my favorite Connery entry.

    There's a difference between favourite and greatest.

    I'm well aware, but I've seen a lot of people who feel FRWL is both the greatest and their favorite.
  • Posts: 15,114
    Well if the designer of the plan is the main villain then Kronsteen would be in FRWL. Grant is for the reasons you mention but also because he's set up as the antagonist from the very beginning of the movie.
  • Posts: 1,405
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Again, just saying that doesn't make it true. Blofeld states in the film that it is what set him on his path of villainy (that's paraphrasing, but it's pretty damned clear).

    I've seen SPECTRE five times and from the second viewing on I have focused on that line because of these very arguments on here. It's right there, not hinted at or vague, it's openly stated.

    Five times is a lot of times for someone ranking Specter 24th out of 24 Bond movies.
    Has Specter climbed some steps on your list?

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I've said it elsewhere before, but as amazing as FRWL is, DN is my favorite Connery entry.

    There's a difference between favourite and greatest.

    I'm well aware, but I've seen a lot of people who feel FRWL is both the greatest and their favorite.
    Oh Lord in Heaven if ONLY DN had had a proper Barry score all the way through! Still, it's my fave Connery as well.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2016 Posts: 23,883
    You might be interpreting our criticisms a bit too literally. They were essentially brothers for a time, is the way I understood it - not blood brothers, not officially foster brothers, but due to Bond's parents' death, Oberhauser Sr. took him in. They had a "brotherly situation" I suppose would be exactly how I would put it. I was just throwing those labels out there essentially as shorthand.
    You're correct and you don't have to explain it really, because Blofeld himself said it in SP, and I quote:

    "I've really put you through a lot, haven't I? Well, that's brothers for you: they always know which buttons to press. "

    So anyone thinking this is a 'brotherly' situation is not off the mark, unless they are supposed to ignore the entire premise and the above statement, which I think is asking too much by the writers.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Blofeld is speaking very literally here, but watch how Bond disregards it as the trite fixation that it is... :D
  • edited January 2016 Posts: 1,405
    Here's one we can debate about:

    I hope that, when Daniel Craig leaves (not anytime soon mind you), his successor will pick up where he left and not go through another reboot.
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    Yes, I agree considerably.
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    I like the second option much more.
  • edited January 2016 Posts: 1,009
    LALD is REALLY intended to be a blaxplotation movie, and works.

    In fact, it even appears on several blaxplotation movie sites and databases, and they tend to like it, especially for its casting, and, over all, praise George Martin for at least trying to do a decent funky score without having actually a funk background beyond Billy Preston's works at Apple.

    This is a brief review of the soundtrack on a blaxplotation site: blaxploitationpride.org/2008/01/george-martin-live-and-let-die-1973.html
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I agree @bigladiesman, LALD is indeed blaxploitation at its finest.

    I have the score in my car at the moment, and it's one of my favourites - better than GF which follows it on my cd rotation imho.

    The funk is just out of this world. A fantastic blend of Bond and classic Kool and the Gang meets the Gap Band.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    I played the LALD soundtrack until I started literally wearing out the vinyl on the LP.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    chrisisall wrote: »
    I played the LALD soundtrack until I started literally wearing out the vinyl on the LP.

    Atta boy! That's how it's done.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    LALD score is a beast. In the car, at home, on the iPod... The second time I visited NY I did a LALD foot tour on my lonesome listening to it.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I found this cool LALD suite. It's pretty damn good.
  • edited January 2016 Posts: 1,596
    Birdleson wrote: »
    But that's not the issue. However it's labeled ("brothers", "foster Brothers"), EON and Mendes felt it necessary to tie the past of Bond and Blofeld together in an obtrusive and unnecessary fashion. They obviously were gunning for that "Cain and Able" angle. Otherwise, why even bother at all.

    Another film where Bond can't seem to be sent on a mission that doesn't entangle his or M's personal past.

    Last sentence basically sums up my thoughts on it. Also, I'm joining the LALD love party.

  • edited January 2016 Posts: 1,009
    Somebody posted the integral B.J. Arnau's version of LALD and the lady really rocks the house.

    Makes me wonder if this piece of trivia is real: Saltzman and Broccoli tried to convince Macca to write the song and leave it to a female black performer. Presumably they had contacted Miss Aretha Franklin. Paul told them that he wanted to do it himself, and it went as good as it gets. But, still, I can't help but wonder what could have been with Franklin.

    [I always put 'Miss' before Aretha Franklin as a tribute to my admired George Clinton and his song Chocolate City]
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,113
    I actually love BJ Arnau's version of the song. My goodness, Aretha Franklin would have been legendary too.

    I'm reading the novel right now, I'm all into LALD lately. I feel like rewatching it.
  • Posts: 9,846
    Goldeneye has the same twist as spectre.

    Say what you will about whether it was done better or worse but Goldeneye really tried to make Alec Trevelyan essentially Bond's Brother and a lot of the dialogue goes to my theory, the way bond is so hurt at the betrayal the fact that M warns Bond about going rogue even the end climax with Trevelyan saying what most brothers would in the situation "I was always Better" (of Course Skyfall followed the same format)


    So no I don't find the twist in spectre bad if anything I find lazy because it been done in bond films twice now.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Somebody posted the integral B.J. Arnau's version of LALD and the lady really rocks the house.

    Makes me wonder if this piece of trivia is real: Saltzman and Broccoli tried to convince Macca to write the song and leave it to a female black performer. Presumably they had contacted Miss Aretha Franklin. Paul told them that he wanted to do it himself, and it went as good as it gets. But, still, I can't help but wonder what could have been with Franklin.

    [I always put 'Miss' before Aretha Franklin as a tribute to my admired George Clinton and his song Chocolate City]

    It was Saltzman who insisted McCartney should get someone else to perform after hearing the demo. George Martin had to persuade him that McCartney was a good enough choice, and no disaster.
  • edited January 2016 Posts: 1,009
    Note taken, @Thunderfinger. Another clean and shiny bit of trivia.

    Kinda agree with @Risico007 above, and while Sean Bean was terrific and hammy as Trevelyan, I can help but wonder what should have happened with the original idea of making Alec a veteran MI6 agent who was a mentor to Bond. Kind of a reversed SF storyline?
  • Posts: 1,310
    This is controversial for myself and I'm ashamed to really admit it, but:

    I haven't really been interested in James Bond ever since my second viewing of Spectre. I don't find Spectre to be an insulting film or anything, but rather, a painfully middling one. Perhaps the most middling of all of them. I have no desire to watch it again, though I suppose I will to give it one final attempt at a passing grade.

    I don't mean to be a basher, but even when the Blu-ray was announced I had no reaction. I remember eagerly awaiting all three Daniel Craig Bond films to come out on home video, but when this one was announced...well...it was just another piece of news.

    I hate feeling this way, but I can't shake it.
Sign In or Register to comment.