Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,133
    Not a controversial opinion about an existing Bond film, but how about one for a future Bond film. This is a little out there, but could be achieved.
    How about a Bond film with only a release date publicised. No trailer, no info before the movie comes out, no behind the scenes podcasts, no script leaks to find out what happens. Just a release date.
    We all know who James Bond is, the whole world knows. I think it would be an interesting exercise to see if it performed better or worse than our typical film scenario.
    Part of my feeling let down by so many movies nowadays is I've seen so much in the trailer for the film. Obviously I could not watch the trailer, but for a Bond film, a series that very few people don't know about it would be possible to sell the movie on the OO7 James Bond name alone I believe.
    Crazy...probably
    Likely...not at all.
    Feasible...possible. Worthy of a secret only Bond could keep.
  • Posts: 613
    have a trailer but just have it say bond or 007 and a date with some epic music.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    bondjames wrote: »
    @BondJasonBond006, I'm sorry to say that this is one of my all time favourite scenes in all of Bondom, along with the similar goofy stuff in GE (tasting like strawberries and what not). Charisma blasting out of the screen in both cases.
    Agreed. I do appreciate both scenes.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    edited March 2016 Posts: 3,000
    That's a bit over the top isn't it? Most people (I assume when we say 'most' we are talking on here as the box office was healthy enough to suggest the general public were happy with it) are very critical of it but that's not the same as hating it.

    We are fans so of course we are going to rip apart moronic decisions like the foster brother but that doesn't mean that there's not a lot of good stuff in the film. Trouble is once you raise the bar like the Craig era has attempted to do you cant turn in a sloppy script and get away with it as easily. Take Leicester - if come next October they are midtable there will be some fans saying 'Ranieri out' despite midtable being dreamland for a club like Leicester.
    CR and SF (despite it being far from perfect) have elevated Bond from the hackneyed cliches of Rog and Brozza to something with character arcs and 'depth'. From the trailer SP was expected to deliver at a similar level and the fact that it didn't really live up to its promise is annoying and has seen a lot of flak (justifiably) thrown its way.

    I have yet to see anyone who has it down amongst the DADs of the world so not sure it's actually hated by many. Most people have it somewhere around the middle which is probably where it deserves and no ones more disappointed than me at the fact it doesn't rank higher.

    Well, alright, "hate" was poor wording. I could have been more accurate with "dislike." My main point is that many people seem to have a problem with Spectre's reintroduction of classic-Bond elements (like gadgets and Spectre itself, in all of its campy glory). I understand having issues with it for its weak and stupid plot points, but when some criticize it for it's so-called "cliched, outdated" elements, I fear that it may mean that we will never again see a classical Bond film. I hope I'm wrong.

    I do also understand that it stands in stark contrast to the other Craig films, and even to its own trailer. I get that many find this disappointing, but the fact that people find this course-correction to the classic formula to be a problem rather than celebrating it furthers my fears that "classic-Bond" will never be accepted by the culture again. Perhaps it would have been better received if it was done with the next Bond, rather than popping up out of nowhere in the Craig era, but I don't think so. I think that, at least for now, the culture is too focused on everything being "gritty, realistic, and serious."

    I honestly don't really care about character arcs and depth, I just want a bit of fun with a cocky, sharp-witted, Brit, giving a villain hell with some intermittent help from his gadgets. If EON does ever turn out another classic-style Bond film, but this time with a solid plot and script, and it ends up being well received, then I'll joyfully eat my words. However, I think that even with a good script, many people still would have moaned about "cliches" and "old hat."
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    Yeah, the "I came here to kill you" exchange in SP was quite a letdown. Moreso than anything in CR or SF.

    Controversial opinions.... hmm, well I think that LALD is quite middling - in fact, I have it below average. It's nothing to do with the cast/characters (except J.W. Pepper) or score/theme song, it's just that the film starts and ends on rather low notes, and the boat chase wasn't too inspiring in my opinion.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I liked their short exchange. :)
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    chrisisall wrote: »
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    QOS is still the worst Eon Bond film ever.
    Silly silly British man...

    lol im not British
    It's a figure of Buffy-speak.
    :))

    Tell me you're into the Scooby Gang and I'll completely love you :-*

    And the gay scene in SF was cringeworthy?
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    chrisisall wrote: »
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    QOS is still the worst Eon Bond film ever.
    Silly silly British man...

    lol im not British
    It's a figure of Buffy-speak.
    :))

    Tell me you're into the Scooby Gang and I'll completely love you :-*

    And the gay scene in SF was cringeworthy?

    Go figure huh

  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Oh, I don't know. I ws flattered and a little curious. ;)
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited March 2016 Posts: 40,968
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    QOS is good it just has bad editing during action scenes, but it is more watchable than a few of the moore movies.

    I take all the Moore movies over QOS. Even Moonraker & AVTAK which are #2 & #7 on my rankings list

    Isn't...that a good, but obvious thing? That's like saying "I'll even take GE over MR, which is #1 on my list."
  • Posts: 15,114
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    The character of Bond Fleming ripped of Leslie Charteris. As he's basically
    just the saint ! ( That should be controversial ) :D

    I don't get that. I've read some of Chateris's original stories and I find The Saint to be a markedly different character than the literary Bond in temperament, motivation and in just about every way that matters. However, I do see a connection between the small screen Saint and the cinematic Bond.

    Agreed. Beside, The Saint has far more in common with Arsène Lupin than Bond.

    The cinematic version of James Bond did borrow a lot from the literary Saint as written by Leslie Charteris. And I would know as I have got the whole Saint series in my book collection [like 007 series in several languages and version].

    I read little of The Saint, but to me it was clear that the literary Simon Templar was a modernized Arsène Lupin.

    Not just Arsene Lupin, the classic hero's as Bulldog Drummond, Richard Hannay and such. The Saint is more than a burglar in that sense he is more of a Robin Hood kind of character with a wicked sense of humor. I read Arsene Lupin and can hardly accuse him of great witticism. Simon Templar is a British gentleman adventurer that has been around since 1938.
    Hardly surprising he influenced James Bond and all who came after him.

    While it is true that Arsène Lupin in the novels was nothing of a Robin Hood (unlike his movies/TV incarnations), further criminal heroes owe a lot to him, including Simon Templar. Lupin was a gentleman, heck this is how he was conceived, as a gentleman burglar. Working outside and against the law (and without governmental sanction) is something that both Lupin and Templar share and what distinguishes them from James Bond.
  • Posts: 15,114
    Benny wrote: »
    Not a controversial opinion about an existing Bond film, but how about one for a future Bond film. This is a little out there, but could be achieved.
    How about a Bond film with only a release date publicised. No trailer, no info before the movie comes out, no behind the scenes podcasts, no script leaks to find out what happens. Just a release date.
    We all know who James Bond is, the whole world knows. I think it would be an interesting exercise to see if it performed better or worse than our typical film scenario.
    Part of my feeling let down by so many movies nowadays is I've seen so much in the trailer for the film. Obviously I could not watch the trailer, but for a Bond film, a series that very few people don't know about it would be possible to sell the movie on the OO7 James Bond name alone I believe.
    Crazy...probably
    Likely...not at all.
    Feasible...possible. Worthy of a secret only Bond could keep.

    In our era of social medias, I don't think it is possible at all.
    Yeah, the "I came here to kill you" exchange in SP was quite a letdown. Moreso than anything in CR or SF.

    Controversial opinions.... hmm, well I think that LALD is quite middling - in fact, I have it below average. It's nothing to do with the cast/characters (except J.W. Pepper) or score/theme song, it's just that the film starts and ends on rather low notes, and the boat chase wasn't too inspiring in my opinion.

    Here's my counter controversial opinion: LALD has a B movie charm and Roger Moore is more convincing in this movie and the next, even though he was finding his feet as Bond, than in TSWLM.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited March 2016 Posts: 9,020
    @Ludovico I agree.

    Roger Moore's performance in LALD is just bloody great and probably his best.
    True, later, in TSWLM and further on he was more fun to watch overall and of course it suited the movies perfectly.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    @Ludovico I agree.

    Roger Moore's performance in LALD is just bloody great and probably his best.
    True, later, in TSWLM and further on he was more fun to watch overall and of course it suited the movies perfectly.

    LALD is my favorite Moore performance too, always has been. :D
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Roger was great in LALD.
  • Posts: 7,653
    Ludovico wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    The character of Bond Fleming ripped of Leslie Charteris. As he's basically
    just the saint ! ( That should be controversial ) :D

    I don't get that. I've read some of Chateris's original stories and I find The Saint to be a markedly different character than the literary Bond in temperament, motivation and in just about every way that matters. However, I do see a connection between the small screen Saint and the cinematic Bond.

    Agreed. Beside, The Saint has far more in common with Arsène Lupin than Bond.

    The cinematic version of James Bond did borrow a lot from the literary Saint as written by Leslie Charteris. And I would know as I have got the whole Saint series in my book collection [like 007 series in several languages and version].

    I read little of The Saint, but to me it was clear that the literary Simon Templar was a modernized Arsène Lupin.

    Not just Arsene Lupin, the classic hero's as Bulldog Drummond, Richard Hannay and such. The Saint is more than a burglar in that sense he is more of a Robin Hood kind of character with a wicked sense of humor. I read Arsene Lupin and can hardly accuse him of great witticism. Simon Templar is a British gentleman adventurer that has been around since 1938.
    Hardly surprising he influenced James Bond and all who came after him.

    While it is true that Arsène Lupin in the novels was nothing of a Robin Hood (unlike his movies/TV incarnations), further criminal heroes owe a lot to him, including Simon Templar. Lupin was a gentleman, heck this is how he was conceived, as a gentleman burglar. Working outside and against the law (and without governmental sanction) is something that both Lupin and Templar share and what distinguishes them from James Bond.

    You are rather fixated on Arsene Lupin, you do know that the gentleman thief A.J. Raffles was conceived a wee bit earlier than his French copy?- And he was far more likely to be part of Leslie Charteris feeding grounds for an English hero. That said Charteris tried various hero's before he decided to stick with good ole Simon Templar out of economic reasons. Something Fleming did as well with his creation.

    Fantomas was a wee bit earlier but he was a master-criminal of the variety that would have given ESB a run for his money, and most bloody likely his life.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Never Say Never Again is a great movie with a great and completely underrated cast.

    Best Blofeld ever. Max von Sydow, one of the greats.
    Great M, Edward Fox, simply perfect.
    Great Q and Moneypenny.

    Largo is so much better in NSNA than TB.

    And Fatima Blush is the best villainess Bond girl ever.

    If NSNA had a proper Bond song and title sequence, PTS with gun-barrel, it would rank quite high.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    My cheap ass needs to get around to buying NSNA on blu-ray finally. No harm in adding it amongst the collection.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    Admittedly, I haven't seen NSNA in ages. It never even occurs to me to include it in my rankings.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited March 2016 Posts: 10,591
    DP
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Never liked NSNA, even on first viewing I got bored. Plus the music is terrible.
    I have it on bluray, for the commentary but I've only watched it once.
  • Benny wrote: »
    Not a controversial opinion about an existing Bond film, but how about one for a future Bond film. This is a little out there, but could be achieved.
    How about a Bond film with only a release date publicised. No trailer, no info before the movie comes out, no behind the scenes podcasts, no script leaks to find out what happens. Just a release date.
    We all know who James Bond is, the whole world knows. I think it would be an interesting exercise to see if it performed better or worse than our typical film scenario.
    Part of my feeling let down by so many movies nowadays is I've seen so much in the trailer for the film. Obviously I could not watch the trailer, but for a Bond film, a series that very few people don't know about it would be possible to sell the movie on the OO7 James Bond name alone I believe.
    Crazy...probably
    Likely...not at all.
    Feasible...possible. Worthy of a secret only Bond could keep.

    That is a good idea, but the studio's wouldn't be inclined to follow through with that...
  • Posts: 15,114
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    The character of Bond Fleming ripped of Leslie Charteris. As he's basically
    just the saint ! ( That should be controversial ) :D

    I don't get that. I've read some of Chateris's original stories and I find The Saint to be a markedly different character than the literary Bond in temperament, motivation and in just about every way that matters. However, I do see a connection between the small screen Saint and the cinematic Bond.

    Agreed. Beside, The Saint has far more in common with Arsène Lupin than Bond.

    The cinematic version of James Bond did borrow a lot from the literary Saint as written by Leslie Charteris. And I would know as I have got the whole Saint series in my book collection [like 007 series in several languages and version].

    I read little of The Saint, but to me it was clear that the literary Simon Templar was a modernized Arsène Lupin.

    Not just Arsene Lupin, the classic hero's as Bulldog Drummond, Richard Hannay and such. The Saint is more than a burglar in that sense he is more of a Robin Hood kind of character with a wicked sense of humor. I read Arsene Lupin and can hardly accuse him of great witticism. Simon Templar is a British gentleman adventurer that has been around since 1938.
    Hardly surprising he influenced James Bond and all who came after him.

    While it is true that Arsène Lupin in the novels was nothing of a Robin Hood (unlike his movies/TV incarnations), further criminal heroes owe a lot to him, including Simon Templar. Lupin was a gentleman, heck this is how he was conceived, as a gentleman burglar. Working outside and against the law (and without governmental sanction) is something that both Lupin and Templar share and what distinguishes them from James Bond.

    You are rather fixated on Arsene Lupin, you do know that the gentleman thief A.J. Raffles was conceived a wee bit earlier than his French copy?- And he was far more likely to be part of Leslie Charteris feeding grounds for an English hero. That said Charteris tried various hero's before he decided to stick with good ole Simon Templar out of economic reasons. Something Fleming did as well with his creation.

    Fantomas was a wee bit earlier but he was a master-criminal of the variety that would have given ESB a run for his money, and most bloody likely his life.

    I know Arsene Lupin had ancestors. Maybe because I'm francophone I have a certain bias towards Lupin but I always considered him the archetypal gentleman burglar.

    Fantomas is another thing. He was the anti-Lupin: one who did not shy away from murder and in fact took sadistic pleasure in it. His creators Alain and Souvestre "borrowed" heavily and shamelessly rom previous crime fiction works, including Maurice Leblanc's, but as a character Fantomas was very different. More a gentleman psycho.
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 4,325
    Okay - I quite like the 'The Dead ... Are Alive' title card after the gunbarrel in Spectre. Controversial?
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Okay - I quite like the 'The Dead ... Are Alive' title card after the gunbarrel in Spectre. Controversial?
    Yes. But I like it as well.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,113
    While I think Casino Royale is definitely top 10 material, it is highly overrated. I can understand that you would prefer CR over other Bond films if you are moderately interested in cinema and if older movies are not your cup of tea. However, I cannot grasp why a Bond fan would take CR over the typical 60's charm from films such as FRWL, GF or OHMSS.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    The character of Bond Fleming ripped of Leslie Charteris. As he's basically
    just the saint ! ( That should be controversial ) :D

    I don't get that. I've read some of Chateris's original stories and I find The Saint to be a markedly different character than the literary Bond in temperament, motivation and in just about every way that matters. However, I do see a connection between the small screen Saint and the cinematic Bond.

    Agreed. Beside, The Saint has far more in common with Arsène Lupin than Bond.

    The cinematic version of James Bond did borrow a lot from the literary Saint as written by Leslie Charteris. And I would know as I have got the whole Saint series in my book collection [like 007 series in several languages and version].

    I read little of The Saint, but to me it was clear that the literary Simon Templar was a modernized Arsène Lupin.

    Not just Arsene Lupin, the classic hero's as Bulldog Drummond, Richard Hannay and such. The Saint is more than a burglar in that sense he is more of a Robin Hood kind of character with a wicked sense of humor. I read Arsene Lupin and can hardly accuse him of great witticism. Simon Templar is a British gentleman adventurer that has been around since 1938.
    Hardly surprising he influenced James Bond and all who came after him.

    While it is true that Arsène Lupin in the novels was nothing of a Robin Hood (unlike his movies/TV incarnations), further criminal heroes owe a lot to him, including Simon Templar. Lupin was a gentleman, heck this is how he was conceived, as a gentleman burglar. Working outside and against the law (and without governmental sanction) is something that both Lupin and Templar share and what distinguishes them from James Bond.

    You are rather fixated on Arsene Lupin, you do know that the gentleman thief A.J. Raffles was conceived a wee bit earlier than his French copy?- And he was far more likely to be part of Leslie Charteris feeding grounds for an English hero. That said Charteris tried various hero's before he decided to stick with good ole Simon Templar out of economic reasons. Something Fleming did as well with his creation.

    Fantomas was a wee bit earlier but he was a master-criminal of the variety that would have given ESB a run for his money, and most bloody likely his life.

    And why not throw Dick Turpin in there as well.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I'm the dandy highwayman who you're too scared to mention
    I spend my cash on looking flash and grabbing your attention
    The devil take your stereo and your record collection! (oh-oh)
    The way you look you'll qualify for next year's old age pension! :)
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    While I think Casino Royale is definitely top 10 material, it is highly overrated. I can understand that you would prefer CR over other Bond films if you are moderately interested in cinema and if older movies are not your cup of tea. However, I cannot grasp why a Bond fan would take CR over the typical 60's charm from films such as FRWL, GF or OHMSS.

    Absolutely. ^:)^ =D>
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Only my opinon of course but the cinematography in CR can hold its own with the
    60s Bonds, no problem at all. :)
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