Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    LALD was the first Bond I saw in the cinema, so it will always have a special place in
    My heart. :)
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    All Time High isn't a bad song, it just sounds a bit generic IMO.

    True, the Moore movies had been piggybacking off soft, romantic themes ever since TSWLM, and by OP it was getting tiring.

    As for something controversial, I know LALD is widely revered on this forum, so I'll have to say that I'm one of those people who have it squarely in the middle. Completely average - which is funny, because there's very little that's downright average about it (other than the forgettable bits). The stuff you do remember is always either definitely good or downright bad, but the reason it's mediocre in my view is that for every good I can think for the film, I can think of something bad.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I think All time High, is a beautiful romantic ballad. :)
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    The worst introduction to a new Bond is the wanna-be artsy black & white intro to Casino Royale. A common mob hitman scene that could be a short segment out of a Sin City movie.
  • BAIN123 wrote: »
    All Time High isn't a bad song, it just sounds a bit generic IMO.

    True, the Moore movies had been piggybacking off soft, romantic themes ever since TSWLM, and by OP it was getting tiring.

    As for something controversial, I know LALD is widely revered on this forum, so I'll have to say that I'm one of those people who have it squarely in the middle. Completely average - which is funny, because there's very little that's downright average about it (other than the forgettable bits). The stuff you do remember is always either definitely good or downright bad, but the reason it's mediocre in my view is that for every good I can think for the film, I can think of something bad.

    I would agree that LALD is one of, if not the most average film in the series. It's supposed to be the most bizarre but I'd say most of it is quite tame. Feels like some scenes go on too long as well and like TMWTGG and OP it could be trimmed a little.

    (Although when I use the term 'average' I usually mean below-average in my rankings. Which defeats the purpose of using the word 'average' but whatever.)
  • Posts: 1,386

    I know LALD is widely revered on this forum, so I'll have to say that I'm one of those people who have it squarely in the middle. Completely average - which is funny, because there's very little that's downright average about it (other than the forgettable bits). The stuff you do remember is always either definitely good or downright bad, but the reason it's mediocre in my view is that for every good I can think for the film, I can think of something bad.

    It's somewhere in the middle for me as well, but that is mainly because it's up there with DN as my favorite Bond novel and I wish the screenwriters wouldn't have changed things to the extent they did.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    Yeah, they really piggybacked the 70's culture in Moore's 70's flicks (except TSWLM, which did it a much lesser degree and can't really be called "piggybacking").
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    The worst introduction to a new Bond is the wanna-be artsy black & white intro to Casino Royale. A common mob hitman scene that could be a short segment out of a Sin City movie.

    If Bond was a little more like Sin City, that would be a good thing.
  • Lazenby is the third best Bond, ahead of Moore, Craig, and Brosnan. The worst decision (and this probably isn't that controversial) in the entire series was Lazenby taking his agent's advice to quit.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    edited March 2016 Posts: 1,984
    If Lazenby had stayed longer in the role, he could've been considered much greater (charisma is something you can develop from experience, since Lazenby had a natural presence due to his physique). However, it's hard to imagine a Bond series where Lazenby had stayed, and I wonder if he would've been able to pull Bond through the 70's/80's as Moore did. Certainly with that feisty attitude and disagreement with the cast etc. it would've been difficult for him to stay in the role even if he didn't quit in '69.

    Personally, though, I'm not seeing how Lazenby could ever be regarded to be above Craig. Craig has literally everything Lazenby has and more (actual charisma and acting experience, more class, etc.)
  • If Lazenby had stayed longer in the role, he could've been considered much greater (charisma is something you can develop from experience, since Lazenby had a natural presence due to his physique). However, it's hard to imagine a Bond series where Lazenby had stayed, and I wonder if he would've been able to pull Bond through the 70's/80's as Moore did. Certainly with that feisty attitude and disagreement with the cast etc. it would've been difficult for him to stay in the role even if he didn't quit in '69.

    Personally, though, I'm not seeing how Lazenby could ever be regarded to be above Craig. Craig has literally everything Lazenby has and more (actual charisma and acting experience, more class, etc.)

    I prefer Lazenby's portrayal of Bond. More chipper and carefree; a bachelor's taste for freedom. But serious and tough when called for. It may well be the era that Lazenby was in, but he just seemed to have more class than Craig. I do think our preference for eras (old or modern) will affect our judgements.
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 4,325
    I loved LALD as a kid. But now I see it as an average entry in the Bond canon. Not terrible but not great either. An interesting thought has just occured to me - they went to great lengths to disassociate Moore from Connery, yet LALD is essentially a remake of Conner's first Bond, Dr. No.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    I think All time High, is a beautiful romantic ballad. :)
    I agree.
  • Posts: 4,325
    If Lazenby had stayed longer in the role, he could've been considered much greater (charisma is something you can develop from experience, since Lazenby had a natural presence due to his physique). However, it's hard to imagine a Bond series where Lazenby had stayed, and I wonder if he would've been able to pull Bond through the 70's/80's as Moore did. Certainly with that feisty attitude and disagreement with the cast etc. it would've been difficult for him to stay in the role even if he didn't quit in '69.

    Personally, though, I'm not seeing how Lazenby could ever be regarded to be above Craig. Craig has literally everything Lazenby has and more (actual charisma and acting experience, more class, etc.)

    I prefer Lazenby's portrayal of Bond. More chipper and carefree; a bachelor's taste for freedom. But serious and tough when called for. It may well be the era that Lazenby was in, but he just seemed to have more class than Craig. I do think our preference for eras (old or modern) will affect our judgements.

    I recently lent a friend OHMSS and one of his comments was how like an Oxbridge type Bond was. They've lost something of Bond's class in recent years. I feel like Craig's Bond doesn't really come across too much like he's from an upper class background.
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 562
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    If Lazenby had stayed longer in the role, he could've been considered much greater (charisma is something you can develop from experience, since Lazenby had a natural presence due to his physique). However, it's hard to imagine a Bond series where Lazenby had stayed, and I wonder if he would've been able to pull Bond through the 70's/80's as Moore did. Certainly with that feisty attitude and disagreement with the cast etc. it would've been difficult for him to stay in the role even if he didn't quit in '69.

    Personally, though, I'm not seeing how Lazenby could ever be regarded to be above Craig. Craig has literally everything Lazenby has and more (actual charisma and acting experience, more class, etc.)

    I prefer Lazenby's portrayal of Bond. More chipper and carefree; a bachelor's taste for freedom. But serious and tough when called for. It may well be the era that Lazenby was in, but he just seemed to have more class than Craig. I do think our preference for eras (old or modern) will affect our judgements.

    I recently lent a friend OHMSS and one of his comments was how like an Oxbridge type Bond was. They've lost something of Bond's class in recent years. I feel like Craig's Bond doesn't really come across too much like he's from an upper class background.

    absolutely.

    I see LALD as above average until that boat chase drags on forever.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2016 Posts: 23,883
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    If Lazenby had stayed longer in the role, he could've been considered much greater (charisma is something you can develop from experience, since Lazenby had a natural presence due to his physique). However, it's hard to imagine a Bond series where Lazenby had stayed, and I wonder if he would've been able to pull Bond through the 70's/80's as Moore did. Certainly with that feisty attitude and disagreement with the cast etc. it would've been difficult for him to stay in the role even if he didn't quit in '69.

    Personally, though, I'm not seeing how Lazenby could ever be regarded to be above Craig. Craig has literally everything Lazenby has and more (actual charisma and acting experience, more class, etc.)

    I prefer Lazenby's portrayal of Bond. More chipper and carefree; a bachelor's taste for freedom. But serious and tough when called for. It may well be the era that Lazenby was in, but he just seemed to have more class than Craig. I do think our preference for eras (old or modern) will affect our judgements.

    I recently lent a friend OHMSS and one of his comments was how like an Oxbridge type Bond was. They've lost something of Bond's class in recent years. I feel like Craig's Bond doesn't really come across too much like he's from an upper class background.

    absolutely..
    I tend to agree. Craig is very good at certain elements of Bond, but he doesn't naturally bring the class that some of the other actors exuded. There is an underlying blue collar working class aspect to his persona rather than a credible refined elegance..
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    l
    bondjames wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    If Lazenby had stayed longer in the role, he could've been considered much greater (charisma is something you can develop from experience, since Lazenby had a natural presence due to his physique). However, it's hard to imagine a Bond series where Lazenby had stayed, and I wonder if he would've been able to pull Bond through the 70's/80's as Moore did. Certainly with that feisty attitude and disagreement with the cast etc. it would've been difficult for him to stay in the role even if he didn't quit in '69.

    Personally, though, I'm not seeing how Lazenby could ever be regarded to be above Craig. Craig has literally everything Lazenby has and more (actual charisma and acting experience, more class, etc.)

    I prefer Lazenby's portrayal of Bond. More chipper and carefree; a bachelor's taste for freedom. But serious and tough when called for. It may well be the era that Lazenby was in, but he just seemed to have more class than Craig. I do think our preference for eras (old or modern) will affect our judgements.

    I recently lent a friend OHMSS and one of his comments was how like an Oxbridge type Bond was. They've lost something of Bond's class in recent years. I feel like Craig's Bond doesn't really come across too much like he's from an upper class background.

    absolutely..
    I tend to agree. Craig is very good at certain elements of Bond, but he doesn't naturally bring the class that some of the other actors exuded. There is an underlying blue collar working class aspect to his persona rather than a credible refined elegance..

    Wow, you're right. That never occurred to me before. They say Connery was the same way, before TY took him under his wing for Dr No.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,113
    Lazenby is the third best Bond, ahead of Moore, Craig, and Brosnan. The worst decision (and this probably isn't that controversial) in the entire series was Lazenby taking his agent's advice to quit.

    Definitely agree with you here. Connery and Dalton are my top choices with Lazenby coming in third. Brosnan had the elegance but got stuck with terrible puns, Moore's goofy take was fun but not 100% my cup of tea and Craig is a good actor but he's a bit too thuggish for Bond.

  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Lazenby is the third best Bond, ahead of Moore, Craig, and Brosnan. The worst decision (and this probably isn't that controversial) in the entire series was Lazenby taking his agent's advice to quit.

    Definitely agree with you here. Connery and Dalton are my top choices with Lazenby coming in third. Brosnan had the elegance but got stuck with terrible puns, Moore's goofy take was fun but not 100% my cup of tea and Craig is a good actor but he's a bit too thuggish for Bond.

    Isn't it very difficult to judge Lazenby as Bond since he has only made one film? Lazemby has never become an established actor. I think most people defend Lazenby because OHMSS is their favourite Bond film. If he had starred a worse Bond film he would have been criticized much more.
  • I try to judge the performance independent of the film. I think Lazenby did a great job, more remarkable for it being his first acting job. Maybe that helped; it seemed a natural performance.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited March 2016 Posts: 7,113
    Well you might be right. I think Lazenby and Dalton were unlucky to have their Bond careers being cut short, but on the other hand they've only been in good Bond films and never been in a truly awful one.

    That being said, Lazenby brought a vulnerability to the character that was quite new not only for Bond but for the action hero prototype in general. Also, the man had class. When he walked around the room he wasn't some sort of jumped-up bodybuilding thug, he looked like an intelligent and refined gentleman.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Well you might be right. I think Lazenby and Dalton were unlucky to have their Bond careers being cut short, but on the other hand they've only been in good Bond films and never been in a truly awful one.

    That being said, Lazenby brought a vulnerability to the character that was quite new not only for Bond but for the action hero prototype in general. Also, the man had class. When he walked around the room he wasn't some sort of jumped-up bodybuilding thug, he looked like an intelligent and refined gentleman.

    I agree on the first but disagree on the latter. I think that Lazenby is great in the romatic scenes and also in the sad ending, as well as in the fight sequences. However I think that the other Bond actors have been able to express more class and to deliver the lines better. Maybe I am unfair, but to me Lazemby has always been a bit wooden in many of the dialouge scenes.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Moonraker doesn't belong anywhere near the bottom.

    It is as good as TSWLM, they are so similar that it is illogical not to have them near each other in rankings.
  • Posts: 1,386
    I find Barbara Bach's Russian accent unconvincing. If she had been dubbed TSWLM would be a better film.
    Moonraker doesn't belong anywhere near the bottom.

    It is as good as TSWLM, they are so similar that it is illogical not to have them near each other in rankings.

    =D>
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    Moonraker doesn't belong anywhere near the bottom.

    It is as good as TSWLM, they are so similar that it is illogical not to have them near each other in rankings.

    They made a shot-for-shot remake of Psycho. They're virtually identical, except the original is a masterpiece and the remake is a PoS. Just because films are similar, does not make them similar quality.

  • Posts: 1,386
    Moonraker doesn't belong anywhere near the bottom.

    It is as good as TSWLM, they are so similar that it is illogical not to have them near each other in rankings.

    They made a shot-for-shot remake of Psycho. They're virtually identical, except the original is a masterpiece and the remake is a PoS. Just because films are similar, does not make them similar quality.

    MR is not a shot-for-shot remake of TSWLM so the comparison is invalid.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,715
    MR has one huge asset - John Barry.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    Moonraker doesn't belong anywhere near the bottom.

    It is as good as TSWLM, they are so similar that it is illogical not to have them near each other in rankings.

    They made a shot-for-shot remake of Psycho. They're virtually identical, except the original is a masterpiece and the remake is a PoS. Just because films are similar, does not make them similar quality.

    Agree here. Probably not a shot-for-shot remake but a very similar film. Just compare the PTS. One big advantage of TSWLM is that Jaws was a scary and very memorable henchman where as he was only overly silly and cartoonish in Moonraker. They also ruined part of the film by the high amount of campy scenes. Hence unlike TSWLM you probably find 3 or 4 Moonraker scenes in a top10 worst Bond film moments list.

    Moonraker also has one of the most forgetable theme songs, but the score is great. One of the few categories where MR indeed beats TSWLM.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    Here is another controversial opinion about Moonraker:

    Unlike most people I find the Space sequence (Third Act) much better than the first two acts on earth. Maybe just because of the great set and the great score.
    I would have liked to see more Bond in space in that film. Most of the rest of the film, however, is very boring and silly. I also don't care much for any of the characters, all that country hopping and the silly action sequneces.
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 11,189
    I too think LALD is somewhat average. There's a lot of good to it but, in comparison to what came before, it feels dated and a bit...tatty to be absolutely honest. I always end up after watching it thinking "yeah it was ok" and move on to something else.

    One line that's always bugged me is the "Intensive care but she'll pull through" line. I know I'm nit-picking but I always ask myself: How did she end up in intensive care? Are we meant to think Mrs Bell suffering a heart attack or something similar as a result of Bond's actions was meant to be funny? ~X(

    It just feels like a poor, slightly unpleasant attempt at silly humour to me.
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