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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • 007RogerMoore007RogerMoore
    edited March 2012 Posts: 1,082
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    Here's a melancholy epiphany- Bond fans have lost all sight of what the character was supposed to be.

    Glad to see you understand your faults. ;)
    I saw this coming a mile away, but I thought you'd be brave enough to be clever about it for Christ's sake. It's funny how everyone who likes the Moore films to the point of obsession scoff at serious Bond films and call them unBondian when the very song and dance comedy show films they love for their so called """""Flemingesque"""""" atmosphere are in reality a mockery of the character. If this franchise had films like DAF, TMWTGG, and basically every damn Moore film, I wouldn't be here right now. There is a great time to be had when quips, action, and drama are blended nicely in a film, but when a film tries too hard and the act of trying to be funny makes you laugh because you can't believe you're watching this crap, the drama folds if there was anything tangible to start with, and the action is all that's memorable. The golden Connery films(DN, FRWL, GF, and TB), and CR have their funny moments, but balance it with great action and drama. With DAF and Moore's films I hit myself for being such an idiot watching the things and apologize to the Bond films that take the character seriously instead of a walking joke, all right before I change the channel or shut of my DVD player. Fleming had some unique facets in his books, sure, but he would never, never, never, ever write about Bond jumping on the backs of crocodiles like a flaming idiot, swinging on vines while yelling like Tarzan, and he wouldn't be caught dead in a clown suit. It's treason, shameful to Fleming's character, and worst of all, the films that treat Bond like SNL get included amongst the likes of DN, FRWL, TB, CR, TLD, and LTK. It is the equivalent of Michael Bay accepting a lifetime achievement golden director award while Coppola, Scorsese, Spielberg, Hitchcock(RIP), Eastwood, Nolan, Stone, the Coen Brothers, Greengrass, and more sit in their chairs and twiddle their thumbs. It shames me to be in such company. Every time I hear Roger say "I'm Bond. James Bond", I reach for the remote and say without comprise "no Roger, you really, really, aren't".

    Good post, even though my opinions are as opposite as they can get. I think Moore is the real Bond, even though the others are good. And I´m no Craig hater or anything, I just don´t like CR, cause it tries to be things that Bond isn´t.

  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    007RogerMoore wrote:
    Good post, even though my opinions are as opposite as they can get. I think Moore is the real Bond, even though the others are good. And I´m no Craig hater or anything, I just don´t like CR, cause it tries to be things that Bond isn´t.

    And I'm not a Craig hater either... I actually fully supported the day he was cast as Bond, I was very excited for the upcoming CR film, which is where my username originates from... but frankly his 2 films dropped to the bottom of my rankings once the new factor wore out. But as normal film, CR is amongst the best of the 2000's IMO.... and QOS is a very good action film too. I just don't stand them as Bond films. And Craig is a top actor, I think he was awesome in Layer Cake, Munich, Dragon Tattoo and Defiance.
  • 007RogerMoore007RogerMoore
    Posts: 1,082
    QOS is good, but it wasn´t the best movie of 2008. That trophy goes to...Transporter 3. That film had a better attitude than QOS.
  • jolearonjolearon
    Posts: 645
    haha I found it!!!!!!!!

    BOND_LIKE_A_BOSS.jpg
  • 007RogerMoore007RogerMoore
    Posts: 1,082
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    007RogerMoore wrote:
    Good post, even though my opinions are as opposite as they can get. I think Moore is the real Bond, even though the others are good. And I´m no Craig hater or anything, I just don´t like CR, cause it tries to be things that Bond isn´t.

    And I'm not a Craig hater either... I actually fully supported the day he was cast as Bond, I was very excited for the upcoming CR film, which is where my username originates from... but frankly his 2 films dropped to the bottom of my rankings once the new factor wore out. But as normal film, CR is amongst the best of the 2000's IMO.... and QOS is a very good action film too. I just don't stand them as Bond films. And Craig is a top actor, I think he was awesome in Layer Cake, Munich, Dragon Tattoo and Defiance.

    I liked Craig first, but after CR I became a Craig hater. Luckily that disappeared when QOS was released.
  • VBM398VBM398
    Posts: 154
    WTF??? Come on, CR is one of the greatest bond films ever. Shore its not a classic Bond film, but it isnt suppose to be. You just cant hate Casino Royale.Quantum of Solace was a bit of a let down, but still great. And by the way, Moore is no close to Fleming. I liked his Bond films a lot and he is a good actor but some of his lines are just ridiculous. Moore is no agent with a license to kill. He is a bit soft. Shore there whore times when he looked like Bond, like in Moonraker when he shoots Drax's Sniper pretending to killl a bird, or many other times I can't recall. But still he is no Fleming Bond
  • 007RogerMoore007RogerMoore
    Posts: 1,082
    I don´t hate CR. It´s filled with flaws, but it´s still pretty good. I agree that CR is not a classic Bond film, but it goes further than that. It´s like a classic Bourne film. Same with QOS.

    And Moore is no agent with a licence to kill. I agree. He is Bond, James Bond. An OTT hero saving the world from megalomaniacs using quips and gadgets.
  • VBM398VBM398
    Posts: 154
    007RogerMoore wrote:
    I don´t hate CR. It´s filled with flaws, but it´s still pretty good. I agree that CR is not a classic Bond film, but it goes further than that. It´s like a classic Bourne film. Same with QOS.

    And Moore is no agent with a licence to kill. I agree. He is Bond, James Bond. An OTT hero saving the world from megalomaniacs using quips and gadgets.

    Now you just want to piss me off. First , you used my words in bad ways.What flaws??? I just want to know. And why do you relate Bourne to Bond? Tell me. I just want to know. Its good to hear other opinions.
  • jolearonjolearon
    Posts: 645
    just enjoy the films, whoever the bond.
  • 007RogerMoore007RogerMoore
    edited March 2012 Posts: 1,082
    I don´t want to piss you off. But since you asked me about CR´s flaws (perhaps I chose the wrong word, I mean things I don´t like) I´m going to name some of them to you.

    Too much drama. Love stories don´t belong in Bond films. The major flaw.
    Unbondian - It doesn´t feel like Bond to me. Another major flaw
    Too long. Gets boring sometimes.
    I don´t like Vesper at all.
    The action scenes and the grittiness feel and look like Bourne.
    The torture scene doesn´t belong in a Bond movie.
    The last half hour is the worst in 007 history.
    The hospital part, with the love stuff, blahhh.
    The scene in the shower when Bond is sucking Vesper´s finger, also blahhh.
    The sinking house scene is good apart from when Vesper is involved. That is melodramatic, again blahhh.
    The action scene in Madagascar is great, I´ll happily admit that. And Craig does a good job as a rookie 007, even though I don´t like the reboot stuff.

    The airport sequence is too stressed, just like in the Bourne movies. M is stressed. Bond and M´s secretary (or whatever) are stressed, the music is stressing and people are screaming in panic. That ins´t necessary. I don´t like it.

    Too much "Oh my god, I killed someone" (after staircase fight). Vesper is much worse in the scene, though.

    The movie starts out well, and then declines. The ending is weak.
    No Q and Moneypenny. Bad.
    No gadgets - Arghh.
    No gunbarrel in the beginning.
    Almost no JB theme.

    These are some of the problems I have with CR.



  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited March 2012 Posts: 15,718
    VBM398 wrote:
    You just cant hate Casino Royale.

    Bullsh*t. Don't force your opinion of CR down my throat. If you want to forbide people from hating CR, please start your own dictatorship elsewhere, but don't come here telling us what we can or can't do or what we must think.

    You seem to have problems with people disagreeing with you... I hope you aren't so bossy like that in real life
  • jolearonjolearon
    Posts: 645
    STOP2.jpg
  • VBM398VBM398
    edited March 2012 Posts: 154
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    VBM398 wrote:
    You just cant hate Casino Royale.

    Bullsh*t. Don't force your opinion of CR down my throat. If you want to forbide people from hating CR, please start your own dictatorship elsewhere, but don't come here telling us what we can or can't do or what we must think.

    You seem to have problems with people disagreeing with you... I hope you aren't so bossy like that in real life

    Im sorry if i passed that kind of message. Not my intention at all. Im sorry really .Everybody has their own opinion. And i respect that. I just use exclamation points a lot. Im really sorry. And im not bossy.
    Thank you for your opinions and thank you for showing the flaws. I respect your problems with CR
    Again ,not my intention.
    DaltonCraig007. I like Moore, dont get me wrong. Im not trying a lot to force anyone. What i meant by that quote is that I think its a really good movie and I was wondering why you didnt like it has much. Hope you realize that.Again sorry
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited March 2012 Posts: 15,718
    No worries :)>-

    As for CR, it just didn't felt like a Bond movie - no one liners, no gadget, no Q, no Moneypenny, no Bond theme, no gun barrel at the start....
  • VBM398VBM398
    Posts: 154
    I think so too. It didnt like that part. I just think that Craig was really good and the story had some Fleming to it. Just that.I hope that Craig gets to have a better script in those areas ,hopefully in Skyfall.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    No worries :)>-

    As for CR, it just didn't felt like a Bond movie - no one liners, no gadget, no Q, no Moneypenny, no Bond theme, no gun barrel at the start....

    Well, when it comes to Fleming, there's no overabundance of one liners or gadgets. I did wish there was a Q and a Moneypenny, but their absence didn't really hurt the film. I'm actually happy that the Bond theme wasn't used until the end, because it made the use of the theme that much more powerful. The theme loses steam if it's used wall-to-wall. I was disappointed with QoS not using the gunbarrel until the end, but CR has it close enough to the start that I can deal with it. I want it back at the beginning for Skyfall, however.
  • 007RogerMoore007RogerMoore
    Posts: 1,082
    SF is what I hope, when Craig´s Bond really becomes Bond, and the one-liners, Q, Moneypenny and the gadgets return. Craig must have a gadget-laden car, and using the Goldfinger-model wouldn´t be bad.
  • 007RogerMoore007RogerMoore
    Posts: 1,082
    VBM398 wrote:

    Thank you for your opinions and thank you for showing the flaws. I respect your problems with CR

    Always a pleasure to give my opinion to fans so that they know what´s right and what isn´t.
    ;)
  • VBM398VBM398
    Posts: 154
    As you understand, i might respect them but I dont agree with them. Im shore you understand
  • 007RogerMoore007RogerMoore
    Posts: 1,082
    Of course. Nothing wrong with that. If you like CR, well, good for you. Enjoy it.
  • VBM398VBM398
    Posts: 154
    I will...
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    007RogerMoore wrote:
    And Moore is no agent with a licence to kill. I agree. He is Bond, James Bond. An OTT hero saving the world from megalomaniacs using quips and gadgets.

    I think youve mistaken this forum for an Austin Powers one because that is not James Bond.
    007RogerMoore wrote:
    I don´t want to piss you off. But since you asked me about CR´s flaws (perhaps I chose the wrong word, I mean things I don´t like) I´m going to name some of them to you.

    Too much drama. Love stories don´t belong in Bond films. The major flaw.
    Unbondian - It doesn´t feel like Bond to me. Another major flaw
    Too long. Gets boring sometimes.
    I don´t like Vesper at all.
    The action scenes and the grittiness feel and look like Bourne.
    The torture scene doesn´t belong in a Bond movie.
    The last half hour is the worst in 007 history.
    The hospital part, with the love stuff, blahhh.


    Practically all the 'flaws' you list are taken pretty much straight from a book called Casino Royale by some bloke called Ian Fleming.

    You may think that Roger is the best Bond and like his over the top romps best - thats your perogative but please dont start making statements that CR is unbondian as you will just come across as a fool.

    It is your taste in Roger Moores comedy adeventures for the whole family that is unbondian not CR.

    I adore a bit of Roger and would never slag him off as he saved the series and his films are never less than entertaining (well apart from TMWTGG which is less in every department!) but there is a world of difference between the world Fleming created and the universe of double taking pigeons. By definition Flemings novels are Bondian and things that deviate from them are not. As CR, in its second half, sticks pretty religiously to the novel then it is a reasonable point to argue that it is more Bondian than most of Rogers films which average not even one scene from Fleming per film.
  • VBM398VBM398
    Posts: 154
    I agree with you.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    As CR, in its second half, sticks pretty religiously to the novel then it is a reasonable point to argue that it is more Bondian than most of Rogers films which average not even one scene from Fleming per film.

    But that's what Moore Whoores love about Roger's films: they aren't a damn bit like the books.
  • VBM398VBM398
    edited March 2012 Posts: 154
    But earlier it was said that Moore was the closest to the Fleming novels.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    Indeed, Moore's TMWTGG is the closest the films got to the Fleming novels... IMO of course.
  • VBM398VBM398
    edited March 2012 Posts: 154
    I liked that movie a lot. I think it was very close to Fleming . Maybe the closest, but the rest of Moore's films, i dont think they were. But still, Roger Moore was a great Bond. Dont you think maybe the Connery films are the closest to Fleming's? Just wondering.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    007RogerMoore wrote:
    QOS is good, but it wasn´t the best movie of 2008. That trophy goes to...Transporter 3. That film had a better attitude than QOS.

    *DRUMROLL*
    Untitled.png
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Don't forget Iron Man. That movie kicked ass.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Agent007391 wrote:
    Don't forget Iron Man. That movie kicked ass.

    Tony Stark has nothing on Bruce Wayne. Both rich boys, but Tony is the shallow playboy drinker for real, while Bruce only uses that as a facade to hide his real identity alongside being tormented by the deaths of his parents that drive his vigilante conquest. I'll take Bruce over Tony any day of the week.
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