Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    What I don't get is that you can take a chair with you
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Too bad Boris didn't live long enough to see Chair Pants. ;)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2016 Posts: 23,883
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    What bugs me a bit though about that riddle in GE is how a seemingly intelligent computer programmer fluent in English can't guess a riddle a 6 year old would get.
    I always thought she was thrown by Boris's dirty mind (he had selected 'knockers' earlier). That's why she was guessing 'butt', 'arse', 'buns', 'rear', 'bottom' etc.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    bondjames wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    What bugs me a bit though about that riddle in GE is how a seemingly intelligent computer programmer fluent in English can't guess a riddle a 6 year old would get.
    I always thought she was thrown by Boris's dirty mind (he had selected 'knockers' earlier). That's why she was guessing 'butt', 'arse', 'buns', 'rear', 'bottom' etc.

    Of course. How this is not obvious is a riddle.
  • Posts: 154
    bondjames wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    What bugs me a bit though about that riddle in GE is how a seemingly intelligent computer programmer fluent in English can't guess a riddle a 6 year old would get.
    I always thought she was thrown by Boris's dirty mind (he had selected 'knockers' earlier). That's why she was guessing 'butt', 'arse', 'buns', 'rear', 'bottom' etc.

    Bond got it though, cause he doesn't have a dirty mind. ;-)

  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    edited October 2016 Posts: 7,314
    gklein wrote: »
    7. This one may not really be all that controversial... Moore should have been let go after MR. When the tone of the movies changes, it requires another actor. Moore was great for the 70s. If Dalton had taken-over following MR, then FYEO would have been one of the very best movies in the series. Moore's age and lack of physicality ruins FYEO.
    I think FYEO works perfectly with an older Bond. It makes sense for a more experienced and world-weary 007 to be warning Melina about the dangers of seeking revenge. Dalton's Bond sometimes let his emotions get the best of him and acted recklessly as a result. He might have quit his job and run off with Melina to go on a killing rampage, ATAC be damned!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,798
    gklein wrote: »
    2. SPECTRE is one of the best movies in the entire series. It would be number one except for a poor third act (something most Bond movies suffer), a weak score (something SF also suffered), the "artsy" cinematography (hated the yellow hue on every scene) and the casting of Craig (not that he gave a bad performance, I just don't like him in the role). I am convinced that the movie was panned in the corporate media because of its strong anti-NWO stance. I LOVED the Nine Eyes subplot. It was a damned good movie with some of the best directing and acting in the entire series. It struck a near perfect balance between a fantasy action adventure and a serious espionage thriller -- and, I believe, striking that perfect balance between fun and gritty realism is the very factor defining the best Bond movies. There's NO WAY this is a worse movie than DAF (the movie in which Bond is a celebrity spy!), which is what we're to believe according to the Rotten Tomatoes aggregation of media critics.

    3. SF is a horrible "Bond" movie and possibly the most plot-fault ridden of ALL Bond movies (and that's saying something, as all Bond movies are FULL of plot faults). The overly personal aspect of the story removed all mystery from the character. It was nearly completely lacking in truly Bondian panache-laden action stunts (outside the pre-credit scene). Also, I'm tired of Hong Kong being a plot device in Bond movies. To its credit, I do think the movie had some great acting, directing and cinematography.

    4. QofS was a good Bond movie. The poor action editing and lack of character development kept it from being a great Bond movie, but it was still good. Much of the action, especially the fight scenes, was great (even with the bad editing). The plot was probably the most realistic of any Bond movie. Like SP, I suspect the plot is the real reason why the movie was panned by corporate media critics, as this movie too had something of an anti-NWO angle -- highlighting, as it does, the corporate takeover of natural resources (water) with the collusion of government (something that is really happening in the world).

    8. LTK is one of the best Bond movies in the entire series. It's the ONLY Bond movie where EVERY action scene is completely integrated into the plot, the stunts actually moving the story along instead of simply being tacked onto the script. Here again we have a realistic plot involving drug cocaine smuggling from South America (something in which the U.S. government is known to have been involved) and, here again, the corporate media panned it. I see a pattern here. Give us fantastic silly plots that involve threatening the western world (that Bond prevents) and the corporate media will claim to love it. Give us antil-NWO plots or plots that highlight the evils committed by the western corporate/government collusion and, no matter how great the movie, the corporate media will pan it.

    10. GF, OHMSS, GE, CR and SF are all overrated by serious Bond fans. LALD, FYEO, LTK, TWINE, QoS and SP are all underrated by serious Bond fans.
    Agreed here.
  • Posts: 154
    pachazo wrote: »
    gklein wrote: »
    7. This one may not really be all that controversial... Moore should have been let go after MR. When the tone of the movies changes, it requires another actor. Moore was great for the 70s. If Dalton had taken-over following MR, then FYEO would have been one of the very best movies in the series. Moore's age and lack of physicality ruins FYEO.
    I think FYEO works perfectly with an older Bond. It makes sense for a more experienced and world-weary 007 to be warning Melina about the dangers of seeking revenge. Dalton's Bond sometimes let his emotions get the best of him and acted recklessly as a result. He might have quit his job and run off with Melina to go on a killing rampage, ATAC be damned!

    I just found it disconcerting that the Moore Bond would have ever really said that to Melina. He's the Bond the Bond who dropped a man from a roof to his death (TSWLM) simply for kicks. Granted, it was a camp movie, but that's my point. FYEO was a much more serious and physical Bond movie. It require a more physical, younger and serious Bond.

  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    gklein wrote: »
    pachazo wrote: »
    gklein wrote: »
    7. This one may not really be all that controversial... Moore should have been let go after MR. When the tone of the movies changes, it requires another actor. Moore was great for the 70s. If Dalton had taken-over following MR, then FYEO would have been one of the very best movies in the series. Moore's age and lack of physicality ruins FYEO.
    I think FYEO works perfectly with an older Bond. It makes sense for a more experienced and world-weary 007 to be warning Melina about the dangers of seeking revenge. Dalton's Bond sometimes let his emotions get the best of him and acted recklessly as a result. He might have quit his job and run off with Melina to go on a killing rampage, ATAC be damned!

    I just found it disconcerting that the Moore Bond would have ever really said that to Melina. He's the Bond the Bond who dropped a man from a roof to his death (TSWLM) simply for kicks. Granted, it was a camp movie, but that's my point. FYEO was a much more serious and physical Bond movie. It require a more physical, younger and serious Bond.
    Well, that guy did just try to kill him. If Bond hadn't finished the job, the man would surely have come back to try it again. Anyway, Bond has long since accepted this lifestyle (and some of the regrets that come with it) and doesn't want Melina to follow the same path. That's exactly why I think it does work to have an older Bond.

    I understand what you're getting at regarding a change of actor, as it was originally written for someone new to inhabit the role. However, I think Moore played it perfectly and absolutely nailed the serious moments. What he may have lacked in physical prowess, he more than made up for in other areas, in my opinion, of course.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    pachazo wrote: »
    gklein wrote: »
    pachazo wrote: »
    gklein wrote: »
    7. This one may not really be all that controversial... Moore should have been let go after MR. When the tone of the movies changes, it requires another actor. Moore was great for the 70s. If Dalton had taken-over following MR, then FYEO would have been one of the very best movies in the series. Moore's age and lack of physicality ruins FYEO.
    I think FYEO works perfectly with an older Bond. It makes sense for a more experienced and world-weary 007 to be warning Melina about the dangers of seeking revenge. Dalton's Bond sometimes let his emotions get the best of him and acted recklessly as a result. He might have quit his job and run off with Melina to go on a killing rampage, ATAC be damned!

    I just found it disconcerting that the Moore Bond would have ever really said that to Melina. He's the Bond the Bond who dropped a man from a roof to his death (TSWLM) simply for kicks. Granted, it was a camp movie, but that's my point. FYEO was a much more serious and physical Bond movie. It require a more physical, younger and serious Bond.
    Well, that guy did just try to kill him. If Bond hadn't finished the job, the man would surely have come back to try it again. Anyway, Bond has long since accepted this lifestyle (and some of the regrets that come with it) and doesn't want Melina to follow the same path. That's exactly why I think it does work to have an older Bond.

    I understand what you're getting at regarding a change of actor, as it was originally written for someone new to inhabit the role. However, I think Moore played it perfectly and absolutely nailed the serious moments. What he may have lacked in physical prowess, he more than made up for in other areas, in my opinion, of course.

    exactly... And I would even say that some serious moments and some lighthearted moments also fit together in one film as it was the case in the Dalton films, especially in TLD. After all Bond films show escapist adventures that should take themselves seriously but not too seriously. We all know that no Bond film is by any means a realistic spy thriller. Spy work has nothing to do with the things Bond does. This is fiction and trying to make it too serious and rid of any humour or irony rather ruins it in my eyes.
  • Posts: 406
    Lois maxwell shouldnt have returned after LALD. Just not as attractive as she was. Was there ever any discussions about her not returning or changing actress before she was eventually replaced in TLD?
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,297
    Killing off Judi Dench's M was a mistake.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    echo wrote: »
    Killing off Judi Dench's M was a mistake.

    It was the single most stupid plot twist in the history of Bond.
  • Posts: 16,163
    I think James Bond in the next film should have a 70's style mustache like Gregg Beam's in Quantum Of Solace.
    Kidding actually. The above posts regarding Lois Maxwell, and Dench's M being killed off remind me of that article in the Bond girls issue of People Magazine in 1983. Maxwell said they could send Moneypenny on assignment and have her killed. The public would weep. Interesting how back them a comment like that could be made, then by AVTAK it was back to business as usual. Now, in the post re-boot era we actually do get a main character in Bond's universe killed off.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Moneypenny's function wasn't to be ogled at. She's there to give Bond a charming moment of levity and fun before he leaves the office to brave the world again.

    Though I disagree with the assumption that Lois wasn't attractive in the first place. I've always found her quite lovely, inside and out. Sure, they could have recast the role as the Moore era crept on and on past its expiration date, but if Roger was still around, she sure as hell deserved to be too.
  • Posts: 16,163
    I wouldn't dream of replacing Lois in The Moore films. She had great chemistry with Roger.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    She had great chemistry with all of them, legendarily so with Sean every second of their scenes. But that's the mark of a good actress, which she was. A vital part of the team and forever the woman I will think of first whenever anyone says "Miss Moneypenny."
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,297
    I think she was wonderful with Lazenby as well.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    She is and will always be the definitive Moneypenny, a graceful presence with each Bond actor she starred alongside. Maxwell grew up not far from where I did, in fact.
  • Posts: 16,163
    To be honest I haven't thought that any of the later Moneypenny's have captured that magic Lois had in the role.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Bliss lost me at "Barry Manilow." Apparently she lost Bond there too. Yikes...
  • Posts: 7,653
    I think that so-called "serious Bond fans" are overrated they are generally a bunch of snobs that have little or no interest of what other fans think or like unless they agree with their limited world vision. >:)
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    She lost me when she started talking. That accent, yikes!
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited October 2016 Posts: 10,591
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    To be honest I haven't thought that any of the later Moneypenny's have captured that magic Lois had in the role.
    Samantha and Naomie are both very worthy replacements to Maxwell, just as Cleese and Whishaw are to Desmond. I wish I could say the same for Bliss, however. I never liked her "sexy librarian" approach.
  • Posts: 16,163
    Controversial opinion: I prefer Pamela Salem over Bliss, Samantha and Naomi. Still of the later Moneypennys I suppose Naomi would be my favorite.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,297
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Controversial opinion: I prefer Pamela Salem over Bliss, Samantha and Naomi. Still of the later Moneypennys I suppose Naomi would be my favorite.

    Eep...that is controversial. Of all of these, I think Samantha is by far the best actress. Naomi is supposedly amazing in her new film, Moonlight, so maybe her best Bond performance lies ahead...
  • Posts: 11,189
    jake24 wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I wish I could say the same for Bliss, however. I never liked her "sexy librarian" approach.

    Me neither. Terribly wooden.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,297
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    jake24 wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I wish I could say the same for Bliss, however. I never liked her "sexy librarian" approach.

    Me neither. Terribly wooden.

    What is her accent, exactly?
  • Posts: 19,339
    Moneypenny's function wasn't to be ogled at. She's there to give Bond a charming moment of levity and fun before he leaves the office to brave the world again.

    Though I disagree with the assumption that Lois wasn't attractive in the first place. I've always found her quite lovely, inside and out. Sure, they could have recast the role as the Moore era crept on and on past its expiration date, but if Roger was still around, she sure as hell deserved to be too.

    That was going to happen after OP,with Miss Smallbone coming in,as that was supposed to be Sir Roger's last film.
  • edited October 2016 Posts: 154
    pachazo wrote: »
    Well, that guy did just try to kill him. If Bond hadn't finished the job, the man would surely have come back to try it again. Anyway, Bond has long since accepted this lifestyle (and some of the regrets that come with it) and doesn't want Melina to follow the same path. That's exactly why I think it does work to have an older Bond.

    I understand what you're getting at regarding a change of actor, as it was originally written for someone new to inhabit the role. However, I think Moore played it perfectly and absolutely nailed the serious moments. What he may have lacked in physical prowess, he more than made up for in other areas, in my opinion, of course.

    That was merely one example. There have been many instances of Moore's Bond's comedic disregard for life throughout the 70s. And that worked fine for the 70s, thanks to Moore being a great fit for that type of Bond.

    My point is though, that FYEO is really a series reboot giving us a more "serious" (relatively speaking, as we know that no Bond movie is meant to be truly serious) Bond character, one who suddenly cares about a woman experiencing the regrets of a vendetta kill. It was jarring to see Moore in that role.

    Imagine seeing Connery continue in the 70s camp Bond movies. It wouldn't have worked. In fact, Connery's one camp Bond movie, DAF, did not work, and for that exact same reason. DAF too, was basically a series reboot, from the tonally balanced era of the 60s to the camp 70s. Yes, I know that the Bond movies of the 60s became increasingly camp, and that YOLT had a few really camp moments, but DAF took the series to a rebooted extreme in sillyness.

    It was jarring seeing Connery play such a camp re-interpretation of Bond in such a silly movie. I hold to the belief that FYEO would have been a way better movie with Dalton in the role of Bond.

    I'm not a Moore hater though. I can't imagine a better actor in the Bond role of the camp 70s era, which were perfectly fine Bond movies for a decade known for its campiness (and even tackiness), even outside the Bond universe. It's just that, for me, MR was the last movie in which Moore was a good fit, and should have been the last Bond movie with him in the role.

    Of course, as a disclaimer, I'm also a huge fan of Dalton as Bond, and wish he had played the role throughout the 80s, beginning with FYEO.
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