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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Opinions about WOTW seem to have moderated somewhat. I recall a lot of people having a far more positive attitude to it when SP came out in comparison to now.
  • daltondalton
    Posts: 1,631
    Murdock wrote: »
    Doesn't mean it's good though.

    Certainly doesn't. I know it has its fans, but honestly it's one of the worst themes they've come up with. It begins somewhat promisingly, then it just continues to get worse and worse until it just flames out at the end with a whimper, despite seeming as though it was setting itself up to build into something bigger by the end. Disappointing.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,437
    I like WOTW a lot, but I must admit I have come around to the idea that maybe Sam Smith wasn't a great choice. Not that his effort bothers me nearly as much as it seems to others.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,356
    It's not as bad as TMWTGG, TLD, LTK, TND, DAD, or AWTD. It's just more recent.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,357
    I enjoy all of those more than WOTW.
  • SeanCraigSeanCraig Germany
    edited November 2016 Posts: 732
    dalton wrote: »
    Certainly doesn't. I know it has its fans, but honestly it's one of the worst themes they've come up with.
    Absolutely. And IMHO it does not at all reflect the tone of the film. IF we would have for example more OHMSS elements in this film it *might* be more fitting. Like it is it is IMHO the most horrible tune - admitting the instrumental version is OK but that's it.

    The song and neither the title sequence are worth being part of the James Bond series.

  • bigladiesmanbigladiesman
    Posts: 1,009
    jake24 wrote: »
    Some_Kind_Of_Hero wrote: »
    It is a travesty that WotW won an Oscar and A View to a Kill didn't, but let's be real here—any song written for SPECTRE would have won the Oscar gold. With Mendes and Skyfall came a new air of prestige and subsequent "little category" recognition. If they had gone with Radiohead's song, Radiohead would have an Oscar. If Yanni had written the song—or Weezer or the Beastie Boys or Nicki Minaj—they would have won the Oscar. It was basically a two-for-one write the song, get an Oscar freebie.
    I have to agree with you.

    Make that three of us
  • bigladiesmanbigladiesman
    Posts: 1,009
    echo wrote: »
    It's not as bad as TMWTGG, TLD, LTK, TND, DAD, or AWTD. It's just more recent.

    I love TLD and LTK. LTK is my fav Bond song, period. I hope this stirs some controversy XD.
  • IncompetentHenchmanIncompetentHenchman
    Posts: 1,817
    bigladiesman wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    It's not as bad as TMWTGG, TLD, LTK, TND, DAD, or AWTD. It's just more recent.

    I love TLD and LTK. LTK is my fav Bond song, period. I hope this stirs some controversy XD.

    LTK is one of my favourites too.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    edited November 2016 Posts: 45,489
    It s an excellent Bond song. LTK, not TWOTW.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    LTK is a better song than WOTW but I've always thought it a bit overrated by fans. Compared to earlier songs it sounds a bit too dated and generic.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I love LTK. It's an example of silky soul at its best, from one of the legends of that genre. I'm glad that a Bond film has a song like that to its name.

    Having said that, perhaps it doesn't quite fit the tone of the film which is violent and tense, but still, wonderful song.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    It's a solid song but it doesn't have enough of a Bond feel to it in my view.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,198
    It's always going to be a matter of taste. TLD and LTK are typical of the 80's. If you like that, like me, you probably like both Dalton songs as well. You'd probably also like the end title songs of these movies too.

    WOTW, on the other hand, just suffers from a voice that does not match the music. The composition is great, but for heaven's sake let a woman sing a song with such high notes. Now it just sounds like someone's crying in the corner of the room. Not Bondian at all.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    It's a solid song but it doesn't have enough of a Bond feel to it in my view.
    I'm not musically trained, and so can't properly describe why I think it does. The intro is totally Bondian (absolutely love it!) and Gladys delivery and vocal range is another Bond song hallmark. I'd say this track is actually underrated, rather than overrated. I don't know of too many people outside Bond fandom who really appreciate or even know of it, since the film wasn't a huge hit.
  • GBFGBF
    edited November 2016 Posts: 3,197
    I remeber listening to TWOTW in the cinema and was disappointed. I did not dislike it completely but I thought that this was a bit too emotional for a title track. This might work as a song on a soundtrack but it lacks energy and is a bit too whiny for my taste. I know Craig is supposed to be a more emotional Bond but I think they crossed a line here.

    I also dislike that meanwhile everything including the title track is about Bond himself. We have had songs like GF or TMWTGG which focused on the villain, or GE, DAF or MR where the film and the song was about some important object in the film or TWINE, YOLT and TLD where the titles were about a particular phrase which had a more symbolic meaning and could be brought into different contexts.

    I mean this film is called Spectre so why do they not make a title track about SPECTRE? In my eyes this shows the main problem of the Craig era. They are so safe by recycling the "Oh Bond is such a vulnerable and emotional spy" story that they don't try to make something different and leave space for the villains or the plot or anything else which actually makes a good Bond film.



  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    edited November 2016 Posts: 2,722
    LTK is not one of my favourites but at least it has a 'big band bond feel' to it - something that in 89 hadn't been done for a very long time - either rock songs like TLD and AVTAK or soft ballads like FYEO and OP. The 'Goldfinger' horns might be lifted but it's one of the stronger elements of the song. Although it's not weaved into the score the way Barry was so good at doing. LTK isn't my style of song - but as a bond song it works well.

    My issue with WOTW is that it doesn't feel like a Bond song and just as a song it's not my style.
    Opening bars are good - wish it was woven in instrumentally into the score - because it's brief inclusion in the train sequence helps its cause as a familiar bond theme.

    This is why another song that isn't my style or that much of a 'Bond sounding' song like 'All Time high' works better - because it is woven into the fabric of the film and especially adapted for the romantic score so well - Barry really was a master of that.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    The opening bars of Wailing Of The Wuss is a fantastic piece of music.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    The opening bars of Wailing Of The Wuss is a fantastic piece of music.
    Agreed, but from my perspective, that's pretty much where it ends. I was ecstatic when I heard the teaser they gave us, which showcased that part. Horrendously let down when I heard the rest of it.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,198
    Major_Boothroyd wrote: »
    LTK is not one of my favourites but at least it has a 'big band bond feel' to it - something that in 89 hadn't been done for a very long time - either rock songs like TLD and AVTAK or soft ballads like FYEO and OP. The 'Goldfinger' horns might be lifted but it's one of the stronger elements of the song. Although it's not weaved into the score the way Barry was so good at doing. LTK isn't my style of song - but as a bond song it works well.

    My issue with WOTW is that it doesn't feel like a Bond song and just as a song it's not my style.
    Opening bars are good - wish it was woven in instrumentally into the score - because it's brief inclusion in the train sequence helps its cause as a familiar bond theme.

    This is why another song that isn't my style or that much of a 'Bond sounding' song like 'All Time high' works better - because it is woven into the fabric of the film and especially adapted for the romantic score so well - Barry really was a master of that.

    I agree, Barry was phenomenal at that. Look at TLD score, all three songs aincorporated in the film score.

    The Living Daylights and Where Has Everybody Gone for action.
    If There Was a Man for romance.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    And yet it got to #1 in the UK and won an award....no accounting for peoples tastes I suppose.
  • Mathis1Mathis1
    Posts: 7,531
    LTK is a cracking theme song. Gladys Knight was a great choice, and really gives it her all! Very much in the Bassey style! Its a pity Binders titles were start ing to tire! The song deserved better!
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,198
    barryt007 wrote: »
    And yet it got to #1 in the UK and won an award....no accounting for peoples tastes I suppose.

    Yes, it did.

    Avatar was also highly successful, it's still shit.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    bondjames wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    It's a solid song but it doesn't have enough of a Bond feel to it in my view.
    I'm not musically trained, and so can't properly describe why I think it does. The intro is totally Bondian (absolutely love it!) and Gladys delivery and vocal range is another Bond song hallmark. I'd say this track is actually underrated, rather than overrated. I don't know of too many people outside Bond fandom who really appreciate or even know of it, since the film wasn't a huge hit.

    It's a mid tier song for me. Decent enough and Gladys's voice is strong, but it sounds to me a bit too 80s.
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 16,204
    Major_Boothroyd wrote: »
    LTK is not one of my favourites but at least it has a 'big band bond feel' to it - something that in 89 hadn't been done for a very long time - either rock songs like TLD and AVTAK or soft ballads like FYEO and OP. The 'Goldfinger' horns might be lifted but it's one of the stronger elements of the song. Although it's not weaved into the score the way Barry was so good at doing. LTK isn't my style of song - but as a bond song it works well.

    My issue with WOTW is that it doesn't feel like a Bond song and just as a song it's not my style.
    Opening bars are good - wish it was woven in instrumentally into the score - because it's brief inclusion in the train sequence helps its cause as a familiar bond theme.

    This is why another song that isn't my style or that much of a 'Bond sounding' song like 'All Time high' works better - because it is woven into the fabric of the film and especially adapted for the romantic score so well - Barry really was a master of that.

    I think John Barry could have taken "Old MacDonald's Farm", worked it into a romantic instrumental and made it sound perfectly Bondian. He really was a music genius.
    I've grown to appreciate and even like WOTW since SP's release. I think it sounds Bondian enough, it does stick in one's head, yet at the same time, compared to the likes of Nobody Does It Better, LALD or AVTAK, I don't believe it warrants an Oscar. I'd pick Jamaica Jump Up for an Oscar over WOTW, actually.
    One thing I appreciate about the Craig era of themes is the variety. We had a rocker of a tune in YNMK, then the Jack White/Keys whatever it was, and back to ballads with SF and WOTW.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    edited November 2016 Posts: 7,314
    LordBrettSinclair wrote: »
    I think this is controversial.

    I find Roger Moore to be the best James Bond. He invented the character a new after Sean Conney was the original James Bond and very iconic.
    Mr Moore was a new unique version of Bond. A much needed new vision of cinema Bond for 1970's and early 1980's.
    Only his age prevented him from doing more movies.

    His performances are great and he adapted very well to the different kind of films he got. Even when (too) old, he still dominated the screen. Something I don't find true for Mr Brosnan or Mr Craig. Except maybe Goldeneye and Spectre.
    To be fair maybe Mr Craig got too good an ensemble cast in his films, so he could not stick out.

    Don't mean disrespect, but this is a place for controversy.

    It's sad that someone has to apologize for finding Moore to be the best Bond! You're alright in my book.
    Edit - sorry, phone problems. Not sure what happened here.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    pachazo wrote: »
    LordBrettSinclair wrote: »
    I think this is controversial.

    I find Roger Moore to be the best James Bond. He invented the character a new after Sean Conney was the original James Bond and very iconic.
    Mr Moore was a new unique version of Bond. A much needed new vision of cinema Bond for 1970's and early 1980's.
    Only his age prevented him from doing more movies.

    His performances are great and he adapted very well to the different kind of films he got. Even when (too) old, he still dominated the screen. Something I don't find true for Mr Brosnan or Mr Craig. Except maybe Goldeneye and Spectre.
    To be fair maybe Mr Craig got too good an ensemble cast in his films, so he could not stick out.

    Don't mean disrespect, but this is a place for controversy.

    It's sad that someone has to apologize for finding Moore to be the best Bond! You're alright in my book.
    Edit - sorry, phone problems. Not sure what happened here.

    That is a very interesting point and I guess you are right. Honestly, I find that Craig and Brosnan are always in the shadows of other characters that I find more intresting in their films. This particularly true for Casino Royal where I really like the whole cast and think that Daniel is probably the least interesting of the many interesting characters...
  • IncompetentHenchmanIncompetentHenchman
    Posts: 1,817
    I agree there was not enough TWOW in the SP score, but there was absolutely none of LTK in the LTK score...
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,356
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Major_Boothroyd wrote: »
    LTK is not one of my favourites but at least it has a 'big band bond feel' to it - something that in 89 hadn't been done for a very long time - either rock songs like TLD and AVTAK or soft ballads like FYEO and OP. The 'Goldfinger' horns might be lifted but it's one of the stronger elements of the song. Although it's not weaved into the score the way Barry was so good at doing. LTK isn't my style of song - but as a bond song it works well.

    My issue with WOTW is that it doesn't feel like a Bond song and just as a song it's not my style.
    Opening bars are good - wish it was woven in instrumentally into the score - because it's brief inclusion in the train sequence helps its cause as a familiar bond theme.

    This is why another song that isn't my style or that much of a 'Bond sounding' song like 'All Time high' works better - because it is woven into the fabric of the film and especially adapted for the romantic score so well - Barry really was a master of that.

    I think John Barry could have taken "Old MacDonald's Farm", worked it into a romantic instrumental and made it sound perfectly Bondian. He really was a music genius.
    I've grown to appreciate and even like WOTW since SP's release. I think it sounds Bondian enough, it does stick in one's head, yet at the same time, compared to the likes of Nobody Does It Better, LALD or AVTAK, I don't believe it warrants an Oscar. I'd pick Jamaica Jump Up for an Oscar over WOTW, actually.
    One thing I appreciate about the Craig era of themes is the variety. We had a rocker of a tune in YNMK, then the Jack White/Keys whatever it was, and back to ballads with SF and WOTW.

    Now that was very funny!
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    We had a rocker of a tune in YNMK, then the Jack White/Keys whatever it was, and back to ballads with SF and WOTW.

    Random sounds. That's what that was.
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