Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @Mendes, Golden Compas was not a DC film, he played a supporting role. C&A was indeed an under-performer. However, like Connery (right after he left Bond), most of DC's film choices are not in big, action spectacles. He is not Tom Cruise. He seeks more interesting material that isn't about being number one at the box office.

    As Bond, he IS bank-- the general audience loves him in the role and go and see him in the role.

    As for his other choices, from stage, to TV to films, you're comparing apples to oranges, mate.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited December 2016 Posts: 8,395
    They don't love him in the role, they love him because he's in the role. The same will apply for the next guy who takes over. I imagine Barbara wants to keep him because she likes working with him much more than because he has something left to give to the franchise.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    peter wrote: »
    you're comparing apples to oranges, mate.

    Comparing fruit with other fruit is so lazy.
  • Posts: 1,165
    The blatant misogyny of the early Bond movies is starting to bother me more and more as I get older.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    edited December 2016 Posts: 5,080
    Christ. Context. Context!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I'm open to Thomas Newman returning to score B25.

    I watched Passengers yesterday, and was impressed with his work on that film.

    I wasn't even aware that he did the soundtrack, but the opening track as the ship was hurtling through open solitary space was mysterious, suspenseful and caught my attention.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Is the film any good?
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Is the film any good?
    I loved it, particularly the romance and chemistry between Pratt and Lawrence, but I appear to be in the minority on that front.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    I'll probs give it a try. Interesting concept.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    A few opinions, which are related;

    It seems that the only thing EON planned to do with the Craig era was show Bond becoming Bond, which they've done three times now. They completed that story arc three times, but for some reason screwed it up by starting it over after each of the first two. Their only plan from there is, "Subvert the formula. Add emotion and grittiness".

    I used to think of the Bond series as being so unique because it knew to never deviate from what made it great. What made it great, what made it the icon it is today, is the formula; quips, cars, gadgets, girls, over-the-top villains, etc. It is not tired or cliched for you to use these things when you're the series that invented them.

    The cause of the sudden onslaught of Craig bashing after SP is this: In an era known for it's undermining of the formula we finally got a formulaic Bond film, but something didn't sit right. The film had a lousy love story, a soap opera style personal backstory (step-brother), and an incredibly weak ending. These also happen to be the only times the film goes against the formula. We realized that the Craig era tropes of emotion, grit, formula subversion, and "this time it's personal" have grown old and tired faster that the classic tropes, which survived nearly constant use from '62 to '02, and we now dearly miss them. For the majority of Bond's first 40 years on screen, EON knew that the only thing necessary was to tweak the films and the formula to the times, while still keeping what makes Bond, Bond. In the 60s, it was the formula drenched in the class and style of the decade. In the 70s and early 80s, it was the formula cloaked in humor and camp. In the 90s and early 00s it was the formula mixed with action hero style. It worked, and we need it back. We need Bond back.
  • Posts: 1,394
    peter wrote: »
    @Mendes, Golden Compas was not a DC film, he played a supporting role. C&A was indeed an under-performer. However, like Connery (right after he left Bond), most of DC's film choices are not in big, action spectacles. He is not Tom Cruise. He seeks more interesting material that isn't about being number one at the box office.

    As Bond, he IS bank-- the general audience loves him in the role and go and see him in the role.

    As for his other choices, from stage, to TV to films, you're comparing apples to oranges, mate.

    That goes for every Bond actor.Arguably the likes of Dalton and Lazenby less so because their run was so short,audiences did not have time to invest in them.
  • edited December 2016 Posts: 11,189
    I'm convinced it was Dalton's fairly lukewarm reception in the US that led to the perception of him being a "lesser" Bond.
  • edited December 2016 Posts: 11,189
    I only say that because I'm British and, talking to older British fans, he seemed to be fairly well received here in 1987. I was 2 at the time so obviously too young to remember first-hand.
  • edited December 2016 Posts: 11,189
    I don't have the numbers for the UK. I was talking more about the general buzz and sense of excitement from the public.

    Bondsum would probably be able to give you a more accurate picture.
  • Posts: 15,116
    Not a controversial opinion but I have no idea where to put it: who had the brilliant idea to have QOS tonight on ITV2 a day after SF?
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I don't like Tim as Bond but I love him in his non Bond works especially his more humorous works. Loved him in Hot Fuzz.
  • Posts: 15,116
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Of course. And watching those films I have to say deservedly so. He's not bad, but he definitely seems uncomfortable in the role at times. Whatever visceral attraction audiences felt for the other four, didn't work with the two.

    I don't think Dalton was uncomfortable playing Bond as much as uncomfortable with the baggage Bond as an icon brought.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Not a controversial opinion but I have no idea where to put it: who had the brilliant idea to have QOS tonight on ITV2 a day after SF?

    ITV 4's Bond schedule is even more puzzling. "Bond Girls are Forever" has been shown at least three times this week.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Murdock wrote: »
    I don't like Tim as Bond but I love him in his non Bond works especially his more humorous works. Loved him in Hot Fuzz.

    You do get the sense he's having more fun in that film than he did in Bond.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    A few opinions, which are related;

    It seems that the only thing EON planned to do with the Craig era was show Bond becoming Bond, which they've done three times now. They completed that story arc three times, but for some reason screwed it up by starting it over after each of the first two. Their only plan from there is, "Subvert the formula. Add emotion and grittiness".

    I used to think of the Bond series as being so unique because it knew to never deviate from what made it great. What made it great, what made it the icon it is today, is the formula; quips, cars, gadgets, girls, over-the-top villains, etc. It is not tired or cliched for you to use these things when you're the series that invented them.

    The cause of the sudden onslaught of Craig bashing after SP is this: In an era known for it's undermining of the formula we finally got a formulaic Bond film, but something didn't sit right. The film had a lousy love story, a soap opera style personal backstory (step-brother), and an incredibly weak ending. These also happen to be the only times the film goes against the formula. We realized that the Craig era tropes of emotion, grit, formula subversion, and "this time it's personal" have grown old and tired faster that the classic tropes, which survived nearly constant use from '62 to '02, and we now dearly miss them. For the majority of Bond's first 40 years on screen, EON knew that the only thing necessary was to tweak the films and the formula to the times, while still keeping what makes Bond, Bond. In the 60s, it was the formula drenched in the class and style of the decade. In the 70s and early 80s, it was the formula cloaked in humor and camp. In the 90s and early 00s it was the formula mixed with action hero style. It worked, and we need it back. We need Bond back.

    One additional thought; Subverting the formula is not a bad thing to do occasionally, but when you start doing it in every film, it becomes a formula in and of itself. This has been the sole basis of the Craig era.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,297
    A few opinions, which are related;

    It seems that the only thing EON planned to do with the Craig era was show Bond becoming Bond, which they've done three times now. They completed that story arc three times, but for some reason screwed it up by starting it over after each of the first two. Their only plan from there is, "Subvert the formula. Add emotion and grittiness.

    There is truth to your statement. The Bond at the very end of CR seems a lot more mature and focused than the Bond of QoS. I like how QoS deviated from formula...to a point (I thought he should have slept with Camille--surely they weren't suggesting that his libido was on hold until he got answers about Vesper? Plus, you know, Fields).

    QoS is a bit of a bait-and-switch. Bond is not really on a revenge mission; he is on a Vesper-fact-finding mission. That's why he says, "I never left."

    But I agree with you that QoS dials back Bond's evolution only to end up at the same point (emotionally) as CR at the end.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Is the film any good?
    I enjoyed Passengers, but the advertising may be a bit misleading. It's a very interesting premise, and is entertaining enough, but some viewers may have wanted something more thought provoking. There is a fundamental moral dilemma at the film's core, and it could have been expanded upon more than it was. Nevertheless, visually stunning and worth a watch.
  • edited December 2016 Posts: 19,339
    Dalton never looked comfortable in the role in both films,i find him difficult to watch,as I feel nervous for him !

    If you are nervous playing Bond this will be noticed by the audience.
    Even PB I think is a little nervous in the GE PTS in parts,Sean Bean looks more at home and dominates the scene,but then PB ups his game and is fine.

    SC was fine.
    RM was fine.
    DC was fine.
    Even GL was fine in his opening moments as Bond.

    That's why Dalton never sits well with me,he is the one Bond actor that couldn't handle the role and all the attention it gets.
  • edited December 2016 Posts: 11,189
    i think Broz definitely looked nervous at times in GE (the Q scene and the first part with Valantin in the bar seemed where this was most obvious).


    Dalts looks awkard in some of his lighter scenes (a bit with Q and definitely with MP).


    ("Moneypenny be a dear", Moore could pull off a line like that...Dalton couldn't)
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,120
    To end the year, one last opinion that might be controversial to some:

    Ian Fleming would not have liked Skyfall.
    At all.

    Working class, yet pretentious.

    Dear old Ian would have hated that Bond plays that common bar game, he would also have disliked Bond having a beer while relaxing, let alone a low-quality one.
    But above all, the homo-erotic scene would have really pissed him off.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Fleming s Bond drank beer.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Craig wasn't the first Bond to appreciate a good beer.

    Don't forget Broz liked his pints too ;)
  • Posts: 1,394
    Daltons Bond was not very convincing as a ladies man.

    Just look at the scene where Bond first meets Saunders at the opera in TLD.The way Dalton delivers the line '' Lovely girl with the cello '' is just so wooden in its delivery and he actually looks disinterested!
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    I thought Dalton was just fine in all the scenes you mention.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Dalton did seem a bit forced with the ladies. I don't think he even looked at Linda on the boat in the TLD pretitles. He always seemed more interested in the mission than the women. Laz had Tracy to distract him and was also in disguise as Sir Hillary at Piz Gloria, so perhaps that explains his behaviour.
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