Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • edited January 2017 Posts: 12,837
    I think the point of Dalton's Bond is that he wasn't supposed to be relaxed. He was a professional on the verge of snapping (and then actually does in LTK). He'd see getting fired as a relief. @Ludovico is right in that he wasn't really a "cold" killer. Ruthless, but you get the sense that he has to try very hard to remain cold and professional, he gets angry. He's also grizzled to the point of being burnt out. Look at the scene in the hotel room. When he tells the girl to go into the bathroom and lock the door it's one of my favourite line deliveries in the franchise because of how tired he sounds. It's nothing new to him. He's the most realistic Bond in the sense that his work actually takes its toll on him, just like it did in the books. He's tired and a little unstable and volatile.

    Definitely not 'classic' cinematic Bond, and in many ways it's not even in line with Fleming. But I think that it made sense to play it that way after all Bond had been through. In fact I think if Fleming had kept writing the books we might have got a Bond with a bit more of an edge, like Dalton had. A Bond who doesn't enjoy killing but no longer feels as uneasy as he used to about killing in cold blood.

    I've gone a bit off track but anyway, I think Dalton perfectly played the Bond that he set out to play. I understand why it isn't to everybodys taste, but I think the awkwardness/uncomfortableness that some fans pick up on was actually intentional, because he wanted to play Bond as a realistic spy/assassin. And someone in that profession who's been around as long as Bond would be bound to be a little tightly wound.

    He'll always be my favourite Bond, and personally I'm thrilled with the amount of praise he's been getting lately. Far from overrated. Imo he'll still be underrated until he's regarded by the majority as the best.
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Every Bond actor gets criticized to a degree even Connery.

    They all have their faults but I think we've been really lucky with the Bond actors. We've never had a bad one imo. The role of Bond has never been miscast. I think they all did a brilliant job and each one was the perfect choice at the time that he was cast. No matter who the producers choose next, I'll have complete faith that they know what they're doing and that he'll do a good job.
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 19,339
    No no no...not an unrelaxed Bond but an unrelaxed ACTOR...the role was too big..Craig is the only actor that could carry out a burnt out Bond....brilliantly shown in SF...that is Bond at his lowest ebb,who drags himself off the floor when he knows London has had a terrorist attack..THAT is a burnt out,pissed up on booze Bond who has to bring back every ounce of experience to save his country...
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Dalton's Bond never appeared Burnt out but rather constantly annoyed.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Murdock wrote: »
    Dalton's Bond never appeared Burnt out but rather constantly annoyed.

    Spot on...well said.

  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    I don't think the Dalton Bond was "burnt out", but rather "lit up".
  • Posts: 19,339
    I don't think the Dalton Bond was "burnt out", but rather "lit up".
    Then that makes it even more wrong...

  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Oh yeah, that was bad. Same with the "You're bloody lucky to be alive!" Why is he so pissed at her for? She didn't do anything. It wasn't her fault she got shot.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Shall we up the ante and have a Dalton v Craig thread ?
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I believe we already have one but I'm up for it. :D
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 19,339
    he he ....or we could do a Dalton v Craig v Brosnan....i am soo tempted...and it would take the pressure from this thread...sod it..doing it now...this thread is now back to being controversial and not a Bond actor arguement...
  • Posts: 19,339
    Birdleson wrote: »
    We have far more than enough threads.
    We do indeed ....how many threads did you bring over here from the old KTBEU site when it was going to crash ?......just curious...let me know.

  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Well I bumped the Dalton vs Craig one out of convenience.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Murdock wrote: »
    Well I bumped the Dalton vs Craig one out of convenience.
    Thats fair play....not a problem @Murdock ...
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,297
    I completely disagree with the Dalton bashing here. In TLD I thought he was great in the PTS and the "Trigger" scene and brought the exact right level of intensity.

    As someone who grew up watching the late Moore films in the theater, Dalton was a breath of fresh air and brought danger, excitement, and stakes back to the series.

    Moreover, Dalton never "phoned in" his performance, which is something you can't say about most of the other Bond actors.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    We're not bashing the guy, He's good in some respects and disappointing in others.
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 16,162
    @echo well said.
    I always felt Tim brought an excellent intensity to his Bond. The sniper scene in TLD being a great example. He plays for each specific scene the motivations and actions required. The intensity comes through that. He's focused on one task at hand....which is why it takes him a moment to acknowledge Linda in the PTS. He's even tense in the M scene when he opts to take the assignment of eliminating Pushkin himself, as he senses something isn't quite right with Koskov. He lightens up a bit with Kara, but he's really posing then gradually warms to her.
    In LTK, however it's pretty much all intense Dalton mode. The grimness is sometimes indicated rather than natural. But it never bothered me. The film itself is more grim. The fact that Tim seems a bit uncomfortable works for me when the film itself is pretty uncomfortable.
  • Posts: 4,615
    If you look at the range of emotions, situations etc that DC has been asked to play during his Bond career, its far more challenging than others IMHO. To add to that, the tone of the films within his arc has really changed so he has had the additional challenge of almost playing different Bonds over the recent years. TD had problems dealing with the challenges of his 2 movies IMHO and is a lower division to DC in terms of just being the character.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    edited January 2017 Posts: 7,314
    echo wrote: »
    As someone who grew up watching the late Moore films in the theater, Dalton was a breath of fresh air and brought danger, excitement, and stakes back to the series.
    I had the complete opposite reaction. He had every opportunity to bring all the excitement back to the Bond series after replacing a man who was clearly past it in AVTAK (sorry Roger) but he still failed to strike a chord with American audiences. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate Dalton, but exciting is not a term I'd use to describe his version of Bond.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    pachazo wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    As someone who grew up watching the late Moore films in the theater, Dalton was a breath of fresh air and brought danger, excitement, and stakes back to the series.
    I had the complete opposite reaction. He had every opportunity to bring all the excitement back to the Bond series after replacing a man who was clearly past it in AVTAK (sorry Roger) but he still failed to strike a chord with American audiences. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate Dalton, but exciting is not a term I'd use to describe his version of Bond.
    My sentiments exactly.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Murdock wrote: »
    Oh yeah, that was bad. Same with the "You're bloody lucky to be alive!" Why is he so pissed at her for? She didn't do anything. It wasn't her fault she got shot.

    His dramatic look when he sees Pam move after being shot doesn't quite work for me and seems a bit overdone. He does the same look earlier in the film when he's surprised by the shark when sneaking into the warehouse with Sharkey.

    I also don't really like "well they must have hit the FUEL LINE".
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 1,817
    Dalton's intensity in LTK is the whole point of the film. It's the only one where I am unsettled by Bond himself at some level, and therefore I see it to have succeeded at what it set out to do. I see nothing wrong with any of the aforementioned quotes. They were all reasonable in context.

    EDIT: Obviously this opinion is perfect for this thread because there really is so much controversy around it.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    There's being intense at the right times and over emotional and irrational at the wrong times. Those "Intense" moments with Pam on the boat should have been handled better.
  • Murdock wrote: »
    There's being intense at the right times and over emotional and irrational at the wrong times. Those "Intense" moments with Pam on the boat should have been handled better.

    I'm not a big fan of that scene either, but moreso because of Lowell.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Murdock wrote: »
    There's being intense at the right times and over emotional and irrational at the wrong times. Those "Intense" moments with Pam on the boat should have been handled better.

    I'm not a big fan of that scene either, but moreso because of Lowell.

    In hindsight, Both don't really do it for me anymore.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I think the issue I have is that I can see the likes of Craig and Connery playing some of the same scenes in a far less "dramatic" way, yet still get the feeling of "focused agent" across.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,120
    Craig might be able to look as if he is a professional agent but for this particular agent, James Bond, he does miss the necessary finesse to be perfect for the part.
  • Posts: 11,189
    That's true. It's also a reason I've felt iffy about the idea of Sean Bean as Bond. A bit too "blue collar". However, I think in Craig's case he gets the mix of tough killer and indulgent gentleman pretty much spot-on (certainly in CR anyway).
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    echo wrote: »
    As someone who grew up watching the late Moore films in the theater, Dalton was a breath of fresh air and brought danger, excitement, and stakes back to the series.

    Completely agree. TLD was the film that really sparked my interest in all things 007 and I started reading the novels.

    I loved Dalton in it and it was a breath of fresh air and quite a shock to see someone actually playing the part instead of (all due respect to Moore) drifting along playing themselves.

    TLD will always be top 5 for me,

  • Posts: 11,189
    I will admit Moore did tend to play himself more often than Bond. Even in his more serious mode it's difficult to see him being sent to kill someone.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited January 2017 Posts: 7,120
    echo wrote: »
    As someone who grew up watching the late Moore films in the theater, Dalton was a breath of fresh air and brought danger, excitement, and stakes back to the series.

    Completely agree. TLD was the film that really sparked my interest in all things 007 and I started reading the novels.

    I loved Dalton in it and it was a breath of fresh air and quite a shock to see someone actually playing the part instead of (all due respect to Moore) drifting along playing themselves.

    TLD will always be top 5 for me,

    Exactly, TLD is a great Bond film and will always be one of my favourites. I also think the performance by Tim is spot on too. Nothing comes closer to Fleming than Tim in TLD. Maybe Sean in FRWL or George in OHMSS but that's about it.
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