Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @bain, yes, his clipped tone and clenched jaw was a little "showy".

    @bondjames, although Moore isn't my favourite, I do love him dearly and find him endlessly entertaining. He had and has charm to spare. I would never compare Hiddleston to Moore.

    There was only one Sir Rog.

    My respects, from one Canadian to another (?), I would be in mourning if Hiddles became Bond (and that's not saying I want Hardy either (although love him as an actor).

    On a separate note, you say you spend a lot of time in Canada. Whereabouts are you?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I wish I could find a youtube clip of his swagger in the Cairo hotel in episode 1 of The Night Manager. That's what instantly sold him for me. It reminded me so much of Craig's confident walk as he approached Sienna Miller's character in Layer Cake. I think his voice and accent are perfect for Bond too. Slightly posh without being too snotty.

    @peter, I realize you are a huge fan of Craig as Bond and any replacement probably is going to disappoint you. May I ask who you think could succeed him (of the bandied about options), given that this will happen inevitably one day (and probably in a few years)? It's best to at least be open to the possibility.

    I have a place in Toronto too. East end.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Agree that he has started to overdo the swag swag swag swag.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @bondjames, you are correct, I'm a big fan. Out of all of the options thus far, I'm really not feeling anything for anyone.

    My genuine hope is that it is someone under the radar, someone where they are a blank slate, that I don't yet know their "actorly ways".

    I hope they don't go too young, since, as mentioned, our young actors of today aren't built like Connery from yesteryear.

    Craig made such an impact, I'd love a fresh approach that, although sticking with the archetypes of the character, surprise me as DC had surprised me.

    Vague I know. Most honest answer I can give.

    We're in the west. Between West Queen West and Dundas. It's always nice to meet a homebody-007 fan!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2017 Posts: 23,883
    That's a valid answer @peter. It's true that an unknown has much more flexibility (as long as they are a strong enough actor) to give us something new and surprising, in comparison to an actor who has already implanted himself in our consciousness via tv or film. I think Hiddleston can still do it (since most know him for Loki, who is such a different character anyway).

    The name that's mentioned a lot which interests me is James Norton. I don't know anything about him, but I can see him in the role (at least physically) and I'm curious to know what he could bring.

    Cool. Likewise. Were you able to get to the Designing 007 exhibit a few years back (I think it was during 2012/2013)? I wasn't around and was a bit ticked that I missed it. I was able to see a performance of The Toronto Symphony Orchestra (TSO) POPs doing James Bond songs a few years back though. It was impressive, but I wish they had done a Barry orchestral homage rather than just the title songs only. I've recommended that to them, but to date, nothing.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Yes I saw the design show with my son. It was at the TIFF HQ and it was INCREDIBLE... My son, now fifteen, unfortunately, is no longer a Bond fan after SPECTRE (he is more forgivable when it comes to SF), and for this, I am quite saddened since these were films we enjoyed together.

    He thinks Mendes destroyed everything Bond and pissed on fifty years.

    So, in a house that is otherwise filled with women (my wife and two daughters), and with my son abandoning ship til 007 corrects himself, this forum has been a blessing.

    I would be in bliss if TSO did Barry's greatest... There's another we will never have the likes of again. That man was a genius/artist. When I listen to the tracks from DAF and TMWTGG, it seems as if he understood 007 better than anyone working on the films!!!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I'm sorry to hear about your son's change of heart on all things Bond @peter. It's amazing how controversial SP is (both within this fan community and in general). Certainly a very polarizing film from the get-go.

    Who is your son's favourite actor and what's his favourite film? Given his age, I assume the Craig films are what he saw first?
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @bondjames; my son's first Bond experiences was the same as mine: Connery. Sean Connery.
    And from there, no rhyme or reason we would do random Bond films: the Brozzy's, Moore, Dalton... In no particular order.

    Daniel Craig blew everyone out of the water in CR and QUANTUM.

    Before SF came out, we did the marathon. Dr. No and onwards. He had a very positive and very strong reaction to Connery from 62-'65.

    And had a negative view of Conner in '67 and '71. Some of the one liners, and yes, some of the "seductions" started to turn him off. He felt that they were cheesy and dated.

    He's intrigued by OHMSS, but DID not like GL. Found him dull.

    I am sad to report that my boy does not have a favourable view of the Moore years. He can't appreciate what I find so satisfying... Maybe with age and maturity, and, one day, nostalgia of his old man watching these films and listening to the music., he will come to have a more positive outlook on what kind of momentary joy Sir Rog and his era brought to me.

    Brando, my son, did enjoy the Dalton films and, to some degree, Dalton himself. I can understand his perspective: he didn't enjoy Moore and a return to more grounded films was something he welcomed.

    As a child, he used to mimic Brosnan, and really enjoyed the films, especially GE. But in this marathon, his distaste for these films was akin to Connery '67 & '71.

    and then the first two Craig's again: his favorited. Absolutely in every way, he was swept away.

    But then came SF and with it, an awareness of plot holes and so on. We went to see it in the theatre. And he enjoyed it, but I can tell he didn't love it.

    Then he went on the Internet and started reading all about the things that bothered him. This was the chink in the armour.

    Three years later, he, as I did, had high expectations for SP. my son was ready to give Bond one more chance, an from the trailers, both of us thought they were going to give us a hybrid of Craig meeting classic 007 a la OHMSS; after all, the Craig Bond is far more tragic, and with the swelling music from the trailer, we were ready for great action and some bitter drama.

    Plus Brando lives Waltz.

    Things didn't end up well: Brando hated Waltz as Blofeld, he was angry at the film, angry at the series for letting the ball drop; he almost fell asleep in many spots; he was pissed there was no danger, Bond was never at risk, and the torture at the end was too little too late.

    He loves Craig as an actor and has fond memories of the first two films, but SF was the beginning of the end. SP put the nail in the coffin. He's so disgusted with the last effort, he doesn't want to go back and watch any Bond film right now.

    Ouch!

    My boy has passion (he's also in the gifted stream, so he's been very analytical his entire life).

    He has a very blunt way of expressing himself, and I could see why the last two films failed.
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 11,189
    Nice to hear of your sons enjoyment for GoldenEye. I'm 31 and that film was certainly a defining one for me. I feel obliged to defend both it and Brosnan when those subjects come up on forums.

    I must confess I felt slightly indifferent to SP. I enjoyed it but, like your son, didn't love it. Something just feels very...meh...to it as a whole despite some very good individual scenes.

    I found it the closest Bond has come in recent years to the cheesier aspects of the Brosnan era.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2017 Posts: 23,883
    @peter, that's a fascinating narration of your son's initiation into all things Bond. A great read. He seems like a very mature fan of the series, especially for his age. His view of SP almost mirrors my own, but perhaps because I'm older than him, my reactions aren't as visceral.

    I think you can understand why I'm leaning towards a new actor as Bond, given that you have first hand experience of how your son feels. He has reacted by turning off the series, while I'm just waiting for a whole new deal.

    @BAIN123, I love GE as well (although not that keen on the other Brosnan efforts). For many of us, I think it was our DN or GF, and so the nostalgia will stay with us forever.

    You're absolutely right about the cheesier Brosnan elements in SP. I have noticed several vocal Brosnan'ites love SP, and it's quite telling. Of course, those who don't necessarily love the Brosnan years like it too, but still, it's interesting to see.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @bondjames, yes, a passionate rejection of Bond because of SP. however, the one constant in my son's eyes (me too): DC is perfect as Bond. But the story, and all those involved behind the scenes that gave us SP, must be tossed out. They betrayed this young fan.

    He has even said that if Nolan were to direct the next one (he loves TDK Trilogy), or Villenuvue (he and I both love PRISONER and SICARIO), he would dip his toe back into the pool of 007 once more.

    The next generation of filmgoers are not stupid. If they like popcorn, then the F&F films had to up the game, or drama, THE ARRIVAL answered the bell.

    So does Bond! They have the actor, they just need to catch up to him and give him material that is difficult and challenging.

    If he can accept that challenge, so will the audience.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2017 Posts: 23,883
    @peter, I think there are a lot of us (myself included) who will be ecstatic if either Nolan or Villeneuve get their hands on Bond in the future. Of course Nolan has his detractors, but I disagree with them. He is without doubt in my mind one of the greatest film makers living - Bond would be a walk in the park for him given what he has been able to achieve elsewhere.

    The trouble with someone like Nolan however is that he would create such a standalone artistic achievement (like he did with his Batman trilogy) that the franchise may not be able to move forward properly once he leaves (as we are seeing now with Batman).

    Someone like Villeneuve could probably work better within an existing framework.

    I am willing to give Craig another chance, but I personally feel it will be best for the franchise if he breaks now, given SP's mixed reaction with audiences. That way it helps the new fella (who will no doubt take over with B26, if not B25) to establish himself faster. My love of the franchise and its sustainability supersedes my views on any actor.
  • LordBrettSinclairLordBrettSinclair Greensleeves
    edited January 2017 Posts: 167
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  • Posts: 1,394
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    A work colleague of mine who liked SP has made fun of the way Craig walked.

    Iv always thought he runs like C-3P0.

  • Dalton was crap, his movies all the same, but it's not controversial it's a fact! When is gonna be a SIR anyway?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Dalton was crap, his movies all the same, but it's not controversial it's a fact! When is gonna be a SIR anyway?

    Yes, what a failure that man is! Just imagine, all his movies exactly the same! No wonder he doesn t receive any knighthood.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    Dalton was crap, his movies all the same, but it's not controversial it's a fact! When is gonna be a SIR anyway?

    Laughable statement, "Sir".
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    Not sure how controversial this is but, Bond movies would be much better if they put the same care and grandness into the ending as they do the PTS. Go out with a bang, as they say.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Not sure how controversial this is but, Bond movies would be much better if they put the same care and grandness into the ending as they do the PTS. Go out with a bang, as they say.

    Not controversial at all,i totally agree.

  • Posts: 16,169
    Not sure how controversial this is but, Bond movies would be much better if they put the same care and grandness into the ending as they do the PTS. Go out with a bang, as they say.

    The endings have been rather weak when compared to the PTS openings.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    I guess this depends on the film. YOLT, AVTAK and LTK are Bond films where I find the ending much better than the PTS. However, there are also films where it is the other way araound. I especially think of the last two Bond films and DAD.

    The advantage of the PTS is that it can be a small mini adventure whithout being too dependant on the rest of the film.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Not sure how controversial this is but, Bond movies would be much better if they put the same care and grandness into the ending as they do the PTS. Go out with a bang, as they say.
    I agree. For me personally, the last time we had an ending with the same pizzazz as the opener was GE. I recall thinking that in the theatre at the time (that it was a return to the grand scale and tradition of yore - e.g. 60s/70s). I've not been all that enamoured with any of the endings since.
  • Posts: 16,169
    I would love to see another PTS that has absolutely nothing to do with the rest of the film. One that is purely a mini adventure.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I would love to see another PTS that has absolutely nothing to do with the rest of the film. One that is purely a mini adventure.

    That would be nice. The last one to do that was TND. Although some of the villains are around and the encoder is mentioned, it's mainly its own little story.
  • Posts: 16,169
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I would love to see another PTS that has absolutely nothing to do with the rest of the film. One that is purely a mini adventure.

    That would be nice. The last one to do that was TND. Although some of the villains are around and the encoder is mentioned, it's mainly its own little story.

    Great PTS in that film as well. I do like when the connection to the rest of the film is subtle, same with TB, AVTAK, and TLD.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2017 Posts: 23,883
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I would love to see another PTS that has absolutely nothing to do with the rest of the film. One that is purely a mini adventure.

    That would be nice. The last one to do that was TND. Although some of the villains are around and the encoder is mentioned, it's mainly its own little story.

    Great PTS in that film as well. I do like when the connection to the rest of the film is subtle, same with TB, AVTAK, and TLD.
    I agree. It would really be nice to see a separate PTS, as it would set a new (and yet retro) tone, perhaps mirroring the actual film as a much overdue standalone.

    I've always thought that the CR PTS was relatively standalone (depicting Bond getting his 00 status).
  • Posts: 16,169
    bondjames wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I would love to see another PTS that has absolutely nothing to do with the rest of the film. One that is purely a mini adventure.

    That would be nice. The last one to do that was TND. Although some of the villains are around and the encoder is mentioned, it's mainly its own little story.

    Great PTS in that film as well. I do like when the connection to the rest of the film is subtle, same with TB, AVTAK, and TLD.
    I agree. It would really be nice to see a separate PTS, as it would set a new (and yet retro) tone, perhaps mirroring the actual film as a much overdue standalone.

    I've always thought that the CR PTS was relatively standalone (depicting Bond getting his 00 status).

    Definitely! One of the other things I liked about the CR PTS was it's length. It was compact similar to the very early Connery openings, and simple- the fight was easily exciting and dramatic enough to not have to rely on an over the top stunt or chase. Very cool PTS, IMO.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Dalton was crap, his movies all the same, but it's not controversial it's a fact! When is gonna be a SIR anyway?

    Laughable statement, "Sir".

    I can't even understand the sentence personally?? Was it written by a rather dense child?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Dalton was crap, his movies all the same, but it's not controversial it's a fact! When is gonna be a SIR anyway?
    I don't see it happening personally.
  • Posts: 386
    Probably not controversial, but man, when Bond walks through the old MI6 HQ at the end of Spectre and he's confronted with A4 portraits of Le Chiffre, Silva, M and Vesper, that is the single stupidest bit of writing I've seen in a blockbuster movie. Just a mind-numbingly lazy attempt to tie everything together.

    I can accept (just) Blofeld claiming that he's the "architect" of all Bond's pain, but those little pictures. So bad.
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