Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • QuantumOrganizationQuantumOrganization We have people everywhere
    Posts: 1,187
    A view to a Kill and Octopussy's titles are virtually the same. Nothing stands out between them.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    jake24 wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I thought Coltrane was good in GE despite his dodgy accent.

    His explanation of the Kossacks is delivered well.

    TWINE maybe not so good.

    Coltrane is great in both films. But his presence in TWINE is purely for comic relief.

    Agreed in the sense that he largely served the role of comedic relief in TWINE, but he was integral to the plot and they did give him a dignified end.
    Very true.
  • edited February 2017 Posts: 6,844
    A view to a Kill and Octopussy's titles are virtually the same. Nothing stands out between them.

    I wouldn't agree with that, but they are both very 80s. Octopussy's used a rather colorful palette, and I found it perhaps unintentionally cheesy at times with the combination of guys swinging girls around and Rita Coolidge's ultra-romantic singing. A View to a Kill went the day-glo route, primarily focusing on an ice vs. fire theme years ahead of DAD, and had a darker, more mysterious, more espionage-like feel thanks to Duran Duran. I don't find them quite as synonymous as say L&LD and TMWTGG or TLD and LTK, though even those are distinguished by their songs and visual themes.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Not sure how Bond has become working class when he wears Tom Ford Suits and Omega Watches?

    There is a difference between expensive items and elegance. Bond isn't elegant in SF and that bothers me. You can wear whatever expensive stuff you like, if you start drinking Heineken from the bottle and you shave your hair like a bouncer you are still a streetworker in a suit.

    His suits are too tight
  • Posts: 15,125
    echo wrote: »
    TB does get boring, though. It could have been 20-30 minutes shorter (something that could be said of other Bond films as well).

    Here's my controversial statement: the long/slow bits are part of its strength and more Bond movies should have them.

  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    pachazo wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    One of my personal favourites and certainly on my top five, "Thunderball" is one of the most well rounded Bond adventures to date. Exotic locations, beautiful women, battle sequences, gadgets, suspense, terrific music, and a memorable villain add up to the best of the "popcorn" Bond movies. Terrific entertainment and very faithful to Fleming! It's madness to have it in the bottom 5, pure madness. I would go as far as saying that those who don't like TB, don't really like Fleming or Bond.
    Absolutely. My second favorite of the whole series. Everything I love about Bond blended together into one great film. I can understand not liking it as much as others, but calling it the worst or even just bottom five is absurd.

    I fail to see how it's so absurd. In fact, I'm beginning to think that TB is the most overrated film on this site by quite some margin. Of course it has elements that I can enjoy, particularly any scene with Fiona in it, but so much of it is a long, boring mess that you have to slog your way through.

    There's an amazing lack of tension throughout the film when it should be full of it. Much of it feels like we're just following Connery around while he's vacationing in the Bahamas. Some of the casting choices were uninspired. Auger is beautiful yet incredibly bland. Celi as Largo is very dull, he has the personality of a toaster. Van Nutter can't act worth a lick.

    The editing is sloppy in places. That last underwater battle becomes very frustrating to watch because it just goes on forever. The Shrublands sequence feels wasted, as there's really no good reason for Bond to be there. The PTS is corny as hell. And I could go on and on.

    I agree. TB is a dull mess and a chore to sit through. I actually prefer NSNA.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    pachazo wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    One of my personal favourites and certainly on my top five, "Thunderball" is one of the most well rounded Bond adventures to date. Exotic locations, beautiful women, battle sequences, gadgets, suspense, terrific music, and a memorable villain add up to the best of the "popcorn" Bond movies. Terrific entertainment and very faithful to Fleming! It's madness to have it in the bottom 5, pure madness. I would go as far as saying that those who don't like TB, don't really like Fleming or Bond.
    Absolutely. My second favorite of the whole series. Everything I love about Bond blended together into one great film. I can understand not liking it as much as others, but calling it the worst or even just bottom five is absurd.

    I fail to see how it's so absurd. In fact, I'm beginning to think that TB is the most overrated film on this site by quite some margin. Of course it has elements that I can enjoy, particularly any scene with Fiona in it, but so much of it is a long, boring mess that you have to slog your way through.

    There's an amazing lack of tension throughout the film when it should be full of it. Much of it feels like we're just following Connery around while he's vacationing in the Bahamas. Some of the casting choices were uninspired. Auger is beautiful yet incredibly bland. Celi as Largo is very dull, he has the personality of a toaster. Van Nutter can't act worth a lick.

    The editing is sloppy in places. That last underwater battle becomes very frustrating to watch because it just goes on forever. The Shrublands sequence feels wasted, as there's really no good reason for Bond to be there. The PTS is corny as hell. And I could go on and on.

    I agree. TB is a dull mess and a chore to sit through. I actually prefer NSNA.

    Finally some people who don't love the accident that is thunderball I can't see how people think that TB is top 5 because their so many solid entertaining bond films I think TND is better does he Community like TND?
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    pachazo wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    One of my personal favourites and certainly on my top five, "Thunderball" is one of the most well rounded Bond adventures to date. Exotic locations, beautiful women, battle sequences, gadgets, suspense, terrific music, and a memorable villain add up to the best of the "popcorn" Bond movies. Terrific entertainment and very faithful to Fleming! It's madness to have it in the bottom 5, pure madness. I would go as far as saying that those who don't like TB, don't really like Fleming or Bond.
    Absolutely. My second favorite of the whole series. Everything I love about Bond blended together into one great film. I can understand not liking it as much as others, but calling it the worst or even just bottom five is absurd.

    I fail to see how it's so absurd. In fact, I'm beginning to think that TB is the most overrated film on this site by quite some margin. Of course it has elements that I can enjoy, particularly any scene with Fiona in it, but so much of it is a long, boring mess that you have to slog your way through.

    There's an amazing lack of tension throughout the film when it should be full of it. Much of it feels like we're just following Connery around while he's vacationing in the Bahamas. Some of the casting choices were uninspired. Auger is beautiful yet incredibly bland. Celi as Largo is very dull, he has the personality of a toaster. Van Nutter can't act worth a lick.

    The editing is sloppy in places. That last underwater battle becomes very frustrating to watch because it just goes on forever. The Shrublands sequence feels wasted, as there's really no good reason for Bond to be there. The PTS is corny as hell. And I could go on and on.

    I agree. TB is a dull mess and a chore to sit through. I actually prefer NSNA.

    Finally some people who don't love the accident that is thunderball I can't see how people think that TB is top 5 because their so many solid entertaining bond films I think TND is better does he Community like TND?

    TND is my favorite Bond movie!
  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    edited February 2017 Posts: 1,756
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    TB does get boring, though. It could have been 20-30 minutes shorter (something that could be said of other Bond films as well).

    Here's my controversial statement: the long/slow bits are part of its strength and more Bond movies should have them.

    Not too controversial, I've said the same and most of the Fleming purists would agree.

    I really enjoy TB but honestly can any hardcore TB fan tell me this scene isn't stupid?

  • QuantumOrganizationQuantumOrganization We have people everywhere
    Posts: 1,187
    TND is less a Bond Movie and more a bloated tv b movie with machine guns.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I personally find it rather disappointing that some are slagging off TB and applauding the likes of TND. Oh well, different strokes and all, I suppose.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    bondjames wrote: »
    I personally find it rather disappointing that some are slagging off TB and applauding the likes of TND. Oh well, different strokes and all, I suppose.

    hahahahahahahahaha i guess everyone has their own ideal bond
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I love Thunderball and Tomorrow Never Dies. Shoot me. ;)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2017 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    I personally find it rather disappointing that some are slagging off TB and applauding the likes of TND. Oh well, different strokes and all, I suppose.

    hahahahahahahahaha i guess everyone has their own ideal bond
    True. Don't get me wrong - I enjoy TND for what it is, which is mindless action for the most part. It undoubtedly does that very well, and the action sequences hold up even today, particularly the bike chase & the PTS (one of the better ones).

    However, it doesn't have the style, glamour, atmosphere or dialogue of TB imho. I've noticed a few folks here slamming the Shrublands section. I personally really enjoy that part. The film slows down and allows Connery to do some snooping about and Barry delivers some great musical motifs during this bit. Moreover, we have Pat and mink, which is always worth watching.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    TB does get boring, though. It could have been 20-30 minutes shorter (something that could be said of other Bond films as well).

    Here's my controversial statement: the long/slow bits are part of its strength and more Bond movies should have them.

    Not too controversial, I've said the same and most of the Fleming purists would agree.

    I really enjoy TB but honestly can any hardcore TB fan tell me this scene isn't stupid?



    I certainly wouldn't call it stupid. I think it fits in with Bonds time at Shrublands very well. It provides Patricia with some comfort from Bond, but also continues the flirtatious manner of their relationship.
    It also provides an opportunity for Count Lippe to make a failed attempt on Bonds life.
    I have no issue with it myself. Maybe dated in todays world, but it's part of the fun of TB.
  • edited February 2017 Posts: 6,844
    Murdock wrote: »
    I love Thunderball and Tomorrow Never Dies. Shoot me. ;)

    That's the spirit! I find it disheartening that we have Bond fans warring over/cutting down TB and TND alike!

    Anyone down for a TB/TND double feature?
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Murdock wrote: »
    I love Thunderball and Tomorrow Never Dies. Shoot me. ;)

    That's the spirit! I find it disheartening that we have Bond fans warring over/cutting down TB and TND alike!

    Anyone down for a TB/TND double feature?

    If we add QOS to that I'm down
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    To bring a positive note to this, I will say that I really enjoy the PTS of TB, and visually the film is quite colorfully pleasing.

  • Murdock wrote: »
    I love Thunderball and Tomorrow Never Dies. Shoot me. ;)

    That's the spirit! I find it disheartening that we have Bond fans warring over/cutting down TB and TND alike!

    Anyone down for a TB/TND double feature?

    If we add QOS to that I'm down

    You're speaking my language! Those are 3 of my top 10!

    I might just try that sometime.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I personally find it rather disappointing that some are slagging off TB and applauding the likes of TND. Oh well, different strokes and all, I suppose.

    hahahahahahahahaha i guess everyone has their own ideal bond
    True. Don't get me wrong - I enjoy TND for what it is, which is mindless action for the most part. It undoubtedly does that very well, and the action sequences hold up even today, particularly the bike chase & the PTS (one of the better ones).

    However, it doesn't have the style, glamour, atmosphere or dialogue of TB imho. I've noticed a few folks here slamming the Shrublands section. I personally really enjoy that part. The film slows down and allows Connery to do some snooping about and Barry delivers some great musical motifs during this bit. Moreover, we have Pat and mink, which is always worth watching.

    Oh, I don't mind the Shrublands part. It's when Bond and Felix go searching in the 'copter that TB gets *really* slow (and of course Volpe is gone by then).
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    Ludovico wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    TB does get boring, though. It could have been 20-30 minutes shorter (something that could be said of other Bond films as well).

    Here's my controversial statement: the long/slow bits are part of its strength and more Bond movies should have them.

    I can appreciate the first underwater sequence when they're stealing the bombs. There's an eeriness to it that really fits the mood, illustrating just how sinister SPECTRE can be. But it's not only the underwater stuff that bothers me. I just find myself completely bored during many of the long-drawn-out moments in TB. By contrast, I think that DN and FRWL are filled with (mostly) excellent slow moving parts.

    bondjames wrote: »
    I've noticed a few folks here slamming the Shrublands section. I personally really enjoy that part. The film slows down and allows Connery to do some snooping about and Barry delivers some great musical motifs during this bit.
    That he does, no question about it. I'll give you that one. How many times has Barry elevated a scene with his brilliance?
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    Maybe not so controversial but here it goes. I miss James Bond being a connoisseur of the finer things in life.

    Just watchted DAF, I love how Connery unmasks Wint & Kidd because he knows Mouton Rothschild is a claret.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    Well TB is a mixed bag for me. It is a beautifull film but you need to be very tolerant to look past all its flaws (something that some Bond fans never seen to be able to in later Bond films). I somehow want to believe that McClory was responsible for all the bad ideas that found their way into the script.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Maybe not so controversial but here it goes. I miss James Bond being a connoisseur of the finer things in life.

    Just watchted DAF, I love how Connery unmasks Wint & Kidd because he knows Mouton Rothschild is a claret.

    I agree but do you think it would really work today? Or wouldn't it sound too snobbish? I guess back in the 60s it worked very well if you believe Bond was born in the early 30s and he grew up before the roaring 60s where many of this elitist behaviours became unpopular. Until AVTAK Bond - now in his mid50s - still made sense as a more elegant person. However, after that the producers were aware that they needed to update Bond. Or can you believe that a modern Bond would say the "listening to the Beatles without earmuffs" phrase? I quite like Dalton's approach.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    I think Bond can still enjoy the finer things. Hopefully without it being an obvious advertisement for said product.
    I'd also like him to outsmart or show off his general knowledge, without sounding like a professor. The Carcharodon carcharias line in LTK is good. The super fast math in TWINE is not.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    Here is one controversial opinion of mine:

    I wish Bond's skills had more limitations. Or does Bond really need to know everything, speak every language, be faster than everyone, be stronger than everyone, be smarter than everyone else? Why does he always need to win in every card game? The films become very predictable if you know that Bond is always better?

    I would like Bond to be a skilled and competent agent but not a superhuman one. He should not be a superhero who is invincible. Don't make us believe that he can survive a fall from an extremly high bridge or a free fall from a plane.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited February 2017 Posts: 7,136
    GBF wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Maybe not so controversial but here it goes. I miss James Bond being a connoisseur of the finer things in life.

    Just watchted DAF, I love how Connery unmasks Wint & Kidd because he knows Mouton Rothschild is a claret.

    I agree but do you think it would really work today? Or wouldn't it sound too snobbish? I guess back in the 60s it worked very well if you believe Bond was born in the early 30s and he grew up before the roaring 60s where many of this elitist behaviours became unpopular. Until AVTAK Bond - now in his mid50s - still made sense as a more elegant person. However, after that the producers were aware that they needed to update Bond. Or can you believe that a modern Bond would say the "listening to the Beatles without earmuffs" phrase? I quite like Dalton's approach.

    People tend to label once's actions all to easily as snobbery these days. There is a difference between bragging with expensive items and being a conoisseur. The former is too nouveau riche, the latter is unquestionably elegant. Many won't know the difference however.

    You mention Dalton, but Tim also delivered the conoisseur quite well even though he did it more subtle than his predecessors. I absolutely love how he finds the champagne brand listed 'questionable' in TLD.

    I think Bond has lost this typical trope of his and I regret that as I think it is essential. Now that we're on it, I would love him to play another round of golf as well.
  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    Posts: 3,176
    GBF wrote: »
    I wish Bond's skills had more limitations.

    It bothers me more and more that he is somehow a pilot. What's his type rating? Does he spend all his spare weekends putting in flight hours so he can keep his licence?

    I really appreciate the few times he sits back and lets someone else take the controls. Especially LTK, when he lets a girl fly him.
  • GBFGBF
    edited February 2017 Posts: 3,197
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    GBF wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Maybe not so controversial but here it goes. I miss James Bond being a connoisseur of the finer things in life.

    Just watchted DAF, I love how Connery unmasks Wint & Kidd because he knows Mouton Rothschild is a claret.

    I agree but do you think it would really work today? Or wouldn't it sound too snobbish? I guess back in the 60s it worked very well if you believe Bond was born in the early 30s and he grew up before the roaring 60s where many of this elitist behaviours became unpopular. Until AVTAK Bond - now in his mid50s - still made sense as a more elegant person. However, after that the producers were aware that they needed to update Bond. Or can you believe that a modern Bond would say the "listening to the Beatles without earmuffs" phrase? I quite like Dalton's approach.

    People tend to label once's actions all to easily as snobbery these days. There is a difference between bragging with expensive items and being a conoisseur. The former is too nouveau riche, the latter is unquestionably elegant. Many won't know the difference however.

    You mention Dalton, but Tim also delivered the conoisseur quite well even though he did it more subtle than his predecessors. I absolutely love how he finds the champagne brand listed 'questionable' in TLD.

    I think Bond has lost this typical trope of his and I regret that as I think it is essential. Now that we're on it, I would love him to play another round of golf as well.

    I also liked the rather subtle approach in TLD. It is a very good compromise and it doesn't feel forced to me. Bond is credible as someone who likes classical music, has a good taste and cares about fashion and style (Vienna).

    I was just saying that you should always keep in mind that each Bond character belongs to a specific period in time and I am not sure if a very elegant Bond was as popular as the rather ordinary Bond played by Craig right now.

    I guess that Craig is just too physical and rude to be credible in the role of a very elegant person. I just would not believe it if Craig cared so very much about fashion and style.

    So I really hope that Craig's successor will be less physically strong but more elgant and smarter.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    GBF wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    GBF wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Maybe not so controversial but here it goes. I miss James Bond being a connoisseur of the finer things in life.

    Just watchted DAF, I love how Connery unmasks Wint & Kidd because he knows Mouton Rothschild is a claret.

    I agree but do you think it would really work today? Or wouldn't it sound too snobbish? I guess back in the 60s it worked very well if you believe Bond was born in the early 30s and he grew up before the roaring 60s where many of this elitist behaviours became unpopular. Until AVTAK Bond - now in his mid50s - still made sense as a more elegant person. However, after that the producers were aware that they needed to update Bond. Or can you believe that a modern Bond would say the "listening to the Beatles without earmuffs" phrase? I quite like Dalton's approach.

    People tend to label once's actions all to easily as snobbery these days. There is a difference between bragging with expensive items and being a conoisseur. The former is too nouveau riche, the latter is unquestionably elegant. Many won't know the difference however.

    You mention Dalton, but Tim also delivered the conoisseur quite well even though he did it more subtle than his predecessors. I absolutely love how he finds the champagne brand listed 'questionable' in TLD.

    I think Bond has lost this typical trope of his and I regret that as I think it is essential. Now that we're on it, I would love him to play another round of golf as well.

    I also liked the rather subtle approach in TLD. It is a very good compromise and it doesn't feel forced to me. Bond is credible as someone who likes classical music, has a good taste and cares about fashion and style (Vienna).

    I was just saying that you should always keep in mind that each Bond character belongs to a specific period in time and I am not sure if a very elegant Bond was as popular as the rather ordinary Bond played by Craig right now.

    I guess that Craig is just too physical and rude to be credible in the role of a very elegant person. I just would not believe it if Craig cared so very much about fashion and style.

    So I really hope that Craig's successor will be less physically strong but more elgant and smarter.

    Agreed.
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