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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2017 Posts: 23,883
    On the 't' shirt thing - I'm not a fan personally, unless it's for a specific purpose (such as an undershirt or as Dalton wore it for underwater activities). A little too casual for my tastes. I'd prefer if Bond's shirts have a collar.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Hmmm...in your opinion of course...and cut the swearing out mate,its becoming a habit.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,020
    Roadphill wrote: »
    @j_w_pepper Cant agree with you on Skyfall my friend. There was so much I disliked about it.
    To each one's own, but I saw the (public) premiere of SKYFALL at the Odeon Leicester Square in London and then another viewing at Hamburg's only original-version theatre about four weeks later, and in both cases audiences were simply elated. First time ever that I experienced actual ovations in places (like when the DB5 was revealed). And that has formed my feelings about SKYFALL ever since. There simply was no other Bond film that I can remember that I walked out of that happy and enthused. No matter what shortcomings one might discover afterwards by choosing the penny-pincher, bean-counter approach.

    Unfortunately, SPECTRE did nothing of the kind.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2017 Posts: 23,883
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    Roadphill wrote: »
    @j_w_pepper Cant agree with you on Skyfall my friend. There was so much I disliked about it.
    To each one's own, but I saw the (public) premiere of SKYFALL at the Odeon Leicester Square in London and then another viewing at Hamburg's only original-version theatre about four weeks later, and in both cases audiences were simply elated. First time ever that I experienced actual ovations in places (like when the DB5 was revealed). And that has formed my feelings about SKYFALL ever since. There simply was no other Bond film that I can remember that I walked out of that happy and enthused. No matter what shortcomings one might discover afterwards by choosing the penny-pincher, bean-counter approach.

    Unfortunately, SPECTRE did nothing of the kind.
    I recall people who weren't Bond fans (or just casual fans) talking about SF at work. A sort of water cooler thing. The last time I remember a film grabbing the general public consciousness like that was TDK.

    Personally, it was the best theatre experience I've had with Bond since CR (and before that since GE).
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Dont forget where my SF appreciation thread is chaps hahaha !!
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,960
    @bondjames, that was definitely the most excitement/engagement I've ever seen in an audience for a Bond movie since I started seeing them in theaters in 2002. Like you said, I heard a lot of general audience members loving it/commenting positively about the movie as they exited the theater.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2017 Posts: 23,883
    @Creasy47, what surprised me was that people I've known for years, and who I didn't know as Bond fans, would ask me whether I'd seen the film and wanted to talk about it or encourage me to see it. They didn't know I was a Bond nut & had already seen it a couple of times by this point.

    They were almost like a third party sales force for the film. It was really strange, and like I said, I remember this happening with TDK as well. It was like a cultural event. This had nothing to do with the Olympics, and more to do with their personal experience with the film.
  • TellyBlofeldTellyBlofeld
    Posts: 489
    NicNac wrote: »
    LeonardPine wrote: »
    "Thunderball is the worst cinematic film ever"

    That's not controversial, its just plain stupid.

    He's probably never seen 'Abbott & Costello Go To Mars'.

    I don't even know how to rasped to that.
    Thunderball is one of the better 007 films for me.
  • QuantumOrganizationQuantumOrganization We have people everywhere
    edited February 2017 Posts: 1,187
    Ya @Kenya, We don't to be up on Access Hollywood. :-O
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,277
    Controversial: OP has the most realistic, and one of the most suspenseful, plots.
  • Some_Kind_Of_HeroSome_Kind_Of_Hero
    edited February 2017 Posts: 6,844
    Octopussy is certainly up there in realistic plots, though perhaps The Living Daylights, For You Eyes Only, or even Live and Let Die is even more cut and dry and within the realm of reality?

    Edit: Aside from L&LD's supernatural elements, of course.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Okay if we are talking about the most realistic good plot movies this is the list that I think are the films with great plots

    Frwl
    Ohmss
    For Your Eyes Only
    Octopussy
    The Living Daylights
    License to kill
    Casino Royale
    Quantum of solace
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,462
    JamesBondKenya wrote: »
    Okay if we are talking about the most realistic good plot movies this is the list that I think are the films with great plots

    Frwl
    Ohmss
    For Your Eyes Only
    Octopussy
    The Living Daylights
    License to kill
    Casino Royale
    Quantum of solace

    Good list for the most realistic!

    For a controversial opinion: Stromberg, while not one of the greatest, is easily one of the most underrated and overlooked villains of the series.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    GetCarter wrote: »
    As an aside, the way Savalas holds his cigarettes is weirdly awesome.

    "Cigarettes". Yes, sure...
  • TellyBlofeldTellyBlofeld
    Posts: 489
    MrKissKissBangBang wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Controversial: OP has the most realistic, and one of the most suspenseful, plots.

    I can back that. Had they tamed the "gags" and if I'm super particular, had another director with more visual flair than Glen, it would probably be top 5 Bond material for me. The train/Berlin/circus section of the film is excellent drama and it beautifully escalates.

    I'd buy this if Dalton had played Bond. Moore should have let FYEO, his most solid effort in my opinion, been his swan song.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    TellyBlofeld wrote: »
    MrKissKissBangBang wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Controversial: OP has the most realistic, and one of the most suspenseful, plots.

    I can back that. Had they tamed the "gags" and if I'm super particular, had another director with more visual flair than Glen, it would probably be top 5 Bond material for me. The train/Berlin/circus section of the film is excellent drama and it beautifully escalates.

    I'd buy this if Dalton had played Bond. Moore should have let FYEO, his most solid effort in my opinion, been his swan song.

    I think octopussy could be the best bond films if it had dalton
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I disagree on Dalton for OP. Moore was perfect in my humble view. He should have packed it in with this rather than stay on for AVTAK.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Agreed. Octopussy is one of Moore's best. It wouldn't have been good with Dalton. AVTAK would have made a great starter for Dalton I think.
  • CrzChris4CrzChris4
    Posts: 463
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    Oh dear.

    Seconded.
    Connery's presence alone is enough to elevate Dr. No as a top-rate Bond flick.



    You Only Live Twice is better than Thunderball.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    CrzChris4 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    Oh dear.

    Seconded.
    Connery's presence alone is enough to elevate Dr. No as a top-rate Bond flick.



    You Only Live Twice is better than Thunderball.
    CrzChris4 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    Oh dear.

    Seconded.
    Connery's presence alone is enough to elevate Dr. No as a top-rate Bond flick.



    You Only Live Twice is better than Thunderball.

    I would go as far as to say I find myself enjoying QOS more than TB
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    JamesBondKenya wrote: »
    TellyBlofeld wrote: »
    MrKissKissBangBang wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Controversial: OP has the most realistic, and one of the most suspenseful, plots.

    I can back that. Had they tamed the "gags" and if I'm super particular, had another director with more visual flair than Glen, it would probably be top 5 Bond material for me. The train/Berlin/circus section of the film is excellent drama and it beautifully escalates.

    I'd buy this if Dalton had played Bond. Moore should have let FYEO, his most solid effort in my opinion, been his swan song.

    I think octopussy could be the best bond films if it had dalton

    No way...OP is perfect for Sir Roger..

  • TellyBlofeldTellyBlofeld
    Posts: 489
    barryt007 wrote: »
    JamesBondKenya wrote: »
    TellyBlofeld wrote: »
    MrKissKissBangBang wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Controversial: OP has the most realistic, and one of the most suspenseful, plots.

    I can back that. Had they tamed the "gags" and if I'm super particular, had another director with more visual flair than Glen, it would probably be top 5 Bond material for me. The train/Berlin/circus section of the film is excellent drama and it beautifully escalates.

    I'd buy this if Dalton had played Bond. Moore should have let FYEO, his most solid effort in my opinion, been his swan song.

    I think octopussy could be the best bond films if it had dalton

    No way...OP is perfect for Sir Roger..

    Well, most of the bad jokes would have to go, for one thing.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,277
    Murdock wrote: »
    Agreed. Octopussy is one of Moore's best. It wouldn't have been good with Dalton. AVTAK would have made a great starter for Dalton I think.

    OP is the perfect Moore vehicle, and he and Adams have some of the best chemistry in the series. You can see Moore pushing back against the so-serious FYEO in it. But ironically, he's best when he doesn't: "And that's for 009."

    AVTAK needed to be rewritten from scratch. No actor could have saved it.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Avtak felt lethargic like cubby was bored
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,575
    The problem with AVTAK is that the first half is pretty darn good. Its when it heads to San Francisco is when the wheels fall off.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Last_Rat_Standing wrote: »
    The problem with AVTAK is that the first half is pretty darn good. Its when it heads to San Francisco is when the wheels fall off.

    agreed also zoren is an awesome villain and has the best villain detah in the whole series

  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited February 2017 Posts: 11,189
    When I last re-watched AVTAK I couldn't help but think "this all feels a bit too routine".

    The film lacks any real energy to it. OP was rather lightweight too but that film at least had some more suspenseful set pieces.

    Moore also works better in OP. You can sense that AVTAK was one film too far for him and his seduction of the pin-up models feels a bit too cringeworthy.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Birdleson wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Controversial: OP has the most realistic, and one of the most suspenseful, plots.

    I'll give you plot, but certainly not realistic in execution (Tarzan yell, Octopussy's acrobats assault on Khan, "Sit", Bed of nails, etc).

    Bond checking a fake watch in a Gorrilla suit when millions of lives are at stake. Daft and ruined the tension.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    @j_w_pepper @bondjames I agree with you both that a lot of casual movie fans loved Skyfall.

    I still think it was beset by problems.

    The action was poorly directed
    The dreaded "Colour grading" was in full swing
    A 70-something year old woman actually getting involved in the action.
    The villain, whilst well acted, reeked of the Joker from TDK. Right even down to getting intentionally caught.
    Bond's enigma being completely deconstructed by "revelations" about his childhood.
    Bond still being, in the context of Craig's reboot, a relatively fresh agent, but also being old and washed up...
    Bond openly weeping at the climax
    No discernable Bond girl
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    MrKissKissBangBang wrote: »
    Roadphill wrote: »
    @j_w_pepper @bondjames I agree with you both that a lot of casual movie fans loved Skyfall.

    I still think it was beset by problems.

    The action was poorly directed
    The dreaded "Colour grading" was in full swing
    A 70-something year old woman actually getting involved in the action.
    The villain, whilst well acted, reeked of the Joker from TDK. Right even down to getting intentionally caught.
    Bond's enigma being completely deconstructed by "revelations" about his childhood.
    Bond still being, in the context of Craig's reboot, a relatively fresh agent, but also being old and washed up...
    Bond openly weeping at the climax
    No discernable Bond girl

    - The action wasn't poorly directed. The PTS is classic James Bond, the Shanghai neon jellyfish fight is one of the best hand to hand combats in the series, the enquiry shootout is an excellent scene, and the final sequence at Skyfall is intuitive, organic, well choreographed and beautifully lit.

    - Colour grading is in every film, and Skyfall is one of the most striking Bond films to look at. Roger Deakins didn't get an Oscar nod for nothing.

    - M's involvement works organically to the narrative, and thematically.

    - I don't see the parallels between Silva and the Joker.

    - There weren't any "revelations". Just an exploration into Bond's past done right.

    - This is the only one I'll give you. But that's the product of a stupid decision to 'reboot' the series with a man nearing middle aged and forcing us to believe he is a rookie agent (which is a vacuous notion, considering that Bond had a career in the navy and wouldn't have the petulance to engage in the behaviour presented to us in CR). View the films in isolation.

    - So? Bond is human. He's shared a lot with this woman.

    - There's Severine and there's the Greek girl at the start.

    The problem is the Craig films are supposed to have an arc to them, so I find it hard to view them as standalone entries.

    Also on the point about Bond being human, of course I understand this. He isnt supposed to be a Marvel character. But, and this may just be me, but I always find him to be an enigma, and the less known about his background the better.

    I suppose we will have to agree to disagree on the other points. I wanted to like Skyfall, but it wasnt a patch on Casino Royale. Hell I even preferred the just above averageness that was Spectre.

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