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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Some_Kind_Of_Hero wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    MooseWithFleas wrote: »
    @j_w_pepper Soto has one of the only lines that I've ever laughed out loud at how bad it was the very first time I heard it. "I love James so much"

    I love it now, always makes for a good laugh and any scene with more Q is better!

    That scene also killed any credibility Pam had for me. The way she imitates Lupe like a jealous, lovestruck school girl is awful.

    Actually, that whole scene is bad. I end up feeling sorry for Desmond stuck in the middle of it.

    Actors must often use every means at their disposal to pull off questionable writing. ;)

    Quite :))
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    This is the controversial thread, right? Here goes: Dalton had the worst girls. Useless. All of them. In fact, they hurt his tenure imho.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    bondjames wrote: »
    This is the controversial thread, right? Here goes: Dalton had the worst girls. Useless. All of them. In fact, they hurt his tenure imho.

    Agreed. Completely.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,796
    bondjames wrote: »
    This is the controversial thread, right? Here goes: Dalton had the worst girls. Useless. All of them. In fact, they hurt his tenure imho.
    OK, you're being controversial, I know. Still I think that both Pam Bouvier and Kara Milovy are easily in the top 5 of the best Bond girls. For different reasons, but they are. Give me either of them instead of the usual Bimbo types anytime.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2017 Posts: 23,883
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    This is the controversial thread, right? Here goes: Dalton had the worst girls. Useless. All of them. In fact, they hurt his tenure imho.
    OK, you're being controversial, I know. Still I think that both Pam Bouvier and Kara Milovy are easily in the top 5 of the best Bond girls. For different reasons, but they are. Give me either of them instead of the usual Bimbo types anytime.
    Here's the thing though - I found them to be more throwback to an earlier time than many of the Bond 'girls' in Moore's era. Anya Amasova, Holly Goodhead and Melina Havelock were far more contemporary than innocent, whiny, clingy Kara, and Pam tries to act 'macho and all' and then throws a hissy fit when Lupe shows affection towards Bond.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    bondjames wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    Tilly Masterson/Tania Mallet is rivalled in the ham acting department by no other Bond girl except Lupe Lamora/Talisa Soto. Not Britt Ekland. Not Tanya Roberts. Not Denise Richard.
    Surely Gloria Hendry gives Mallet a run for her money? One of the most shameful performances in a Bond film imho.


    I actually dont mind Rosie,i have no problem with her at all..but i realise im in the minority.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    I think dalton had the best movies though and I really don't mind him as bond as he reminds me a lot of the literary character
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    @-) >:)
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    LeonardPine wrote: »
    JamesBondKenya wrote: »
    Yeah I just find myself watching them far less than every other bond film because I don't enjoy them. Saying that it's not a matter of them being made in the old style of film making because I love frwl

    For a young'un you've got pretty good taste, but why do you consider Thunderball to be bottom of the pile?

    Thanks well, I think the plot is so horrible that none of it makes sense and I'm not able to buy into the story. Then the action I mean action isn't everything far from it but it's just terrible with sped up footage and unitresting scenes. The Bond girls are amazing but not enough to save this film. The difference between this film and saw frwl is that I really like the story of frwl so I'm able to enjoy how the scenes play out but with thunderball I never get into the story so just end up getting bored. Bond isn't particularly cool in this either he's at his best in the two films prior .
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Bond isnt cool in TB ?!?!? :-O
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    edited February 2017 Posts: 8,796
    Say, @JamesBondKenya, have you ever watched NSNA? Now this is DEFINITELY controversial, but I saw NSNA several times before ever seeing THUNDERBALL, and while I do not maintain it is as good an overall movie as TB, I still find NSNA more entertaining than the original. It's nowhere as bad as true believers tend to make it just because it committed the felony of copying TB (which of course was mostly written by the same guy). At the very least, I find NSNA considerably more fun than its contemporary competitor (lovely alliteration), the tepid OCTOPUSSY, or about the other movies in the bottom-quarter of the official franchise.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,956
    @Moose, when Bond captures Tilly in the "your breaking my back" scene, notice she only squirms when she has a line. Then she goes still when Bond speaks. Then she replies with her line and some more squirming.

    But she was certainly nice to look at.
  • barryt007barryt007
    edited February 2017 Posts: 19,339
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    Say, @JamesBondKenya, have you ever watched NSNA? Now this is DEFINITELY controversial, but I saw NSNA several times before ever seeing THUNDERBALL, and while I do not maintain it is as good an overall movie as TB, I still find NSNA more entertaining than the original. It's nowhere as bad as true believers tend to make it just because it committed the felony of copying TB (which of course was mostly written by the same guy). At the very least, I find NSNA considerably more fun than its contemporary competitor (lovely alliteration), the tepid OCTOPUSSY, or about the other movies in the bottom-quarter of the official franchise.



    :-O
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    edited February 2017 Posts: 8,796
    barryt007 wrote: »
    :-O
    See? But I'm not trying to be controversial. I really do think that OP is only very slightly better than AVTAK, and AVTAK is bottom-five material overall.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Fair enough...thats what makes this community so unique..everyone has different opinions...have you posted your Bond film list yet,i would be keen to see it @j_w_pepper ?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    @JamesBondKenya, I recommend revisiting the scene when he finds Fiona in his bathroom, the scene when she's 'taking him for a ride' (watch his reactions), the scene when he meets and chats up Domino out at sea, the scene when he's dancing with Domino at the club, the scene at Largo's villa when he's there for lunch, the scene when he's dancing with Fiona, the scene as he enters the casino and checks out two beauties walking past him in succession etc. etc. just to name a few.

    In fact, I think there should be a photo of Connery from TB in the Oxford dictionary next to the word 'cool'. TB may be slow (you're right on that), but Connery is the definition of uber-cool in this film imho.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    edited February 2017 Posts: 8,796

    @barryt007
    imdb.com/list/ls056652724/
    Just to simplify things and put old IMDb to some use after all. However, subject to more frequent change than the list seems to suggest.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Some_Kind_Of_Hero wrote: »
    NSNA is an enjoyable film. In my opinion it suffers the most from an unreliable score from the usually very reliable Michel Legrand. At times the music works quite well—I particularly like the little jazzy references to the main theme here and there—but in other places the music makes borderline sleazy scenes astronomically sleazy and borderline wonky action sequences very, very wonky. But Largo and Fatima are a spectacular villain pair. Bassinger does well as Domino. Bernie Casey is quite possibly the best Felix Leiter we've had on film. Connery is back in action and enjoying himself. The fight against stuntman Pat Roach in Shrublands is a highlight of the first half of the film. The motorcycle chase rivals just about any vehicle chase found in the Eon films. Also, unlike some, I dig the video game face off against Largo and love the tango scene with Domino. There are some weak stretches and I'd never attempt to rank it among the Eon films, but it fits comfortably with the rest for me in marathons. I admittedly enjoy it more than some Eon films. Probably. Likely.

    You are not alone,i love that scene too ;)

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Yes, I like the video game shoot out as well, even with the dated sound effects and graphics. Quite tense.

    NSNA has grown on me over the years. There was a time I couldn't stand the score, but we've had such substandard rubbish since Barry retired that the NSNA score is almost tolerable now, in comparison to the official entries. The same goes for the title track, again with reference to some recent efforts.
  • Some_Kind_Of_HeroSome_Kind_Of_Hero
    Posts: 6,844
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Some_Kind_Of_Hero wrote: »
    NSNA is an enjoyable film. In my opinion it suffers the most from an unreliable score from the usually very reliable Michel Legrand. At times the music works quite well—I particularly like the little jazzy references to the main theme here and there—but in other places the music makes borderline sleazy scenes astronomically sleazy and borderline wonky action sequences very, very wonky. But Largo and Fatima are a spectacular villain pair. Bassinger does well as Domino. Bernie Casey is quite possibly the best Felix Leiter we've had on film. Connery is back in action and enjoying himself. The fight against stuntman Pat Roach in Shrublands is a highlight of the first half of the film. The motorcycle chase rivals just about any vehicle chase found in the Eon films. Also, unlike some, I dig the video game face off against Largo and love the tango scene with Domino. There are some weak stretches and I'd never attempt to rank it among the Eon films, but it fits comfortably with the rest for me in marathons. I admittedly enjoy it more than some Eon films. Probably. Likely.

    You are not alone,i love that scene too ;)

    It's a well executed scene! They definitely ratchet up the tension. And despite the fact that they're technically playing a video game, it's a form of mental combat in which they're both receiving physical punishment. It feels almost like something Gardner might have devised for Bond in the 80s by way of channeling Fleming. I also like that they're playing for world domination, and of course the payoff is Bond winning his dance with Domino, which feeds into him telling her about her brother. All rather well done I think.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Thats exactly right,and another reason why i love the Gardner novels so much ,and the material needs to be used !
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,796
    Me too. The replacement of boring, repetitive casino scenes by a computer game was simple genius.

    In fact what I'm missing in the discussion is the fact that NSNA was much more of a spoof of all things Bond at the time than all of the official movies. The balding, chubby Connery made fun of the three-years older Moore's pretense of youth. The kitchen fight ending with the urine sample overkill made fun of all exaggerated fights of the official series that ended with Bond winning by some deus-ex-machina twist. The first-ever black Felix spoofed the ever-changing personality of Leiter. Barbara Carrera's character, while being every bit as attractive as Luciana Paluzzi's Fiona, satirized the quintessential Bond women yearning for James and being pissed if he ignored them.

    The contemporary press realised that quite well and, at least in Germany, were overall in favour of NSNA as compared to OP. Apart from the fact that just about everybody took it as proof that Connery, even pretending to be close to retirement, simply embodied Bond better than Moore. Apologies to Roger whom I like very much as a person, but they were right.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2017 Posts: 23,883
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    In fact what I'm missing in the discussion is the fact that NSNA was much more of a spoof of all things Bond at the time than all of the official movies. The balding, chubby Connery made fun of the three-years older Moore's pretense of youth. The kitchen fight ending with the urine sample overkill made fun of all exaggerated fights of the official series that ended with Bond winning by some deus-ex-machina twist. The first-ever black Felix spoofed the ever-changing personality of Leiter. Barbara Carrera's character, while being every bit as attractive as Luciana Paluzzi's Fiona, satirized the quintessential Bond women yearning for James and being pissed if he ignored them.
    Ironically many of the items you mention have since been cribbed for the official franchise.

    -Old past it Bond in SF?. Check
    -Irrelevent '00 section in SP? Check
    -Black Felix in CR? Check
    -Crazy nympho henchwoman in GE? Check
    -New M changeover in SF? Check
    -No GB at the start, no Bond, James Bond, no martini, no Bond theme? Check
  • MooseWithFleasMooseWithFleas Philadelphia
    Posts: 3,357
    peter wrote: »
    @Moose, when Bond captures Tilly in the "your breaking my back" scene, notice she only squirms when she has a line. Then she goes still when Bond speaks. Then she replies with her line and some more squirming.

    But she was certainly nice to look at.

    :))

    Never noticed that to boot. Good spot!
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    I haven't watched never say never again or really any of the non eon films just because I don't think they are real bond and a false sense of loyalty prohibits me from watching a knock off but yeah I'll check it out now and see if I like it more
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    NSNA is worth a viewing,its not spoofing Bond too much and is a fun adventure...CR'67 just dont bother with that crap !!
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,339
    NSNA is awful IMO. Just a boring inferior remake to the already good Thunderball.
  • Some_Kind_Of_HeroSome_Kind_Of_Hero
    Posts: 6,844
    Murdock wrote: »
    NSNA is awful IMO. Just a boring inferior remake to the already good Thunderball.

    Two different beasts. One of the 60s, the other of the 80s. Remarkable really how different the two films feel. Moving the action to the south of France and Africa was a smart way to go. In fact the only parts of NSNA that really give me TB vibes are the segments at Shrublands and the stealing of the warheads. Other than that, NSNA might as well have had originally named characters.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,677
    NSNA is cracking good fun. Bond well past his prime, tired and relatively bitter, up against an eclectic cast (sans Basinger) in some beautiful locales with some great action throughout. It gets a bad rap simply because it's non-canon, but I manage to enjoy myself everytime I fire it up.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    I see that as well...i dont even think of NSNA again as a re-make...of course its not a patch on TB but its fun for what it is.

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