Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I see that as well...i dont even think of NSNA again as a re-make...of course its not a patch on TB but its fun for what it is.

    Exactly, there's no reason both can't be enjoyed.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Birdleson wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    In fact what I'm missing in the discussion is the fact that NSNA was much more of a spoof of all things Bond at the time than all of the official movies. The balding, chubby Connery made fun of the three-years older Moore's pretense of youth. The kitchen fight ending with the urine sample overkill made fun of all exaggerated fights of the official series that ended with Bond winning by some deus-ex-machina twist. The first-ever black Felix spoofed the ever-changing personality of Leiter. Barbara Carrera's character, while being every bit as attractive as Luciana Paluzzi's Fiona, satirized the quintessential Bond women yearning for James and being pissed if he ignored them.
    Ironically many of the items you mention have since been cribbed for the official franchise.

    -Old past it Bond in SF?. Check
    -Irrelevent '00 section in SP? Check
    -Black Felix in CR? Check
    -Crazy nympho henchwoman in GE? Check
    -New M changeover in SF? Check
    -No GB at the start, no Bond, James Bond, no martini, no Bond theme? Check

    It does have a "Bond, James Bond" (as does CR' 67), and he does order a Vodka martini aboard The Flying Saucer.
    Yes, I do remember the Bond James Bond now. It's not as obvious or as much of a 'moment' as in the official series, but it's there. I should have said there is no martini 'shaken not stirred'.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    I haven't seen the man from uncle is that a good bond throwback worth watching?
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I thought it was decent but ultimately forgettable. I know many here liked it though. It didn't really feel like a throwback Bond movie to me though.
  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    Posts: 1,756
    I haven't seen the man from uncle is that a good bond throwback worth watching?

    I would definitely recommend it. It's a very fun movie.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    bondjames wrote: »
    @JamesBondKenya, I recommend revisiting the scene when he finds Fiona in his bathroom, the scene when she's 'taking him for a ride' (watch his reactions), the scene when he meets and chats up Domino out at sea, the scene when he's dancing with Domino at the club, the scene at Largo's villa when he's there for lunch, the scene when he's dancing with Fiona, the scene as he enters the casino and checks out two beauties walking past him in succession etc. etc. just to name a few.

    In fact, I think there should be a photo of Connery from TB in the Oxford dictionary next to the word 'cool'. TB may be slow (you're right on that), but Connery is the definition of uber-cool in this film imho.

    It isn't even IMHO that Bond in TB is uber cool. It is the film that truely launched Bondnania in the 60's. Agreed on all the points above. Its also important to point out how close to Fleming's novel the film of TB is.
  • Posts: 15,125
    bondjames wrote: »
    This is the controversial thread, right? Here goes: Dalton had the worst girls. Useless. All of them. In fact, they hurt his tenure imho.

    I agree. It is as if they had no idea what to do with it them.

  • I definitely don't think Dalton's ladies are the worst. Yeah, Kara bugs me at times and she's by no means the greatest, but I like that they gave Bond a monogamous and much more romantically charged relationship for a change. She was believable in that respect.

    It's difficult to defend Talisa Soto as an actress, but honestly Lupe has never bothered me one bit. Not even, "You know I miss James so much." The movie just wouldn't be the same without her. It doesn't even read as bad acting to me—just the way that character really is.

    And Pam has always been one of my favorites. Lowell plays her wonderfully. She's believably tough and delivers on the romantic front without being anywhere near as cloying as Kara could be.

    You want me to name two Bond films with three worse actresses than the aforementioned? I'm sure I could manage.
  • Posts: 19,339
    I haven't seen the man from uncle is that a good bond throwback worth watching?

    It's average at best....

  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    Posts: 3,176
    I haven't seen the man from uncle is that a good bond throwback worth watching?

    I would definitely recommend it. It's a very fun movie.

    But not as much fun as The Return of the Man from UNCLE.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I haven't seen the man from uncle is that a good bond throwback worth watching?

    It's average at best....

    This.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    @BondJames I agree with you on Dalton's girls. They where uniformly naff.

    On the subject of NSNA, I am firmly in the camp of those that dislike it. It does have some pro's for sure. A superb performance from Klaus Maria Brandeur is chief among them.

    The biggest problem is simply that it looks cheap. Also it has a terribly weak finale, an awful score...I could go on, but lastly I will say that even though Bond ia portrayed as a wily veteran in it, Connery still looks too old.

    Now I know Roger is a couple of years older, and OP was being filmed at the same time, but Roger aged far better than Sean. It was fun to see Sean back but that quickly dissipated when one realises how geriatric he looks.
  • Posts: 15,125
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    This is the controversial thread, right? Here goes: Dalton had the worst girls. Useless. All of them. In fact, they hurt his tenure imho.

    I agree. It is as if they had no idea what to do with it them.

    At least you've admitted it's controversial. Kara is one of the very best Bond girls, and expanding the 'sniper was a woman' role from Fleming's short story was genius.

    I'll give you Pam and Lupe though. Pam has never been a favourite of mine, and Lupe, well, she's the standard miserable mistress.

    I think both Kara and Lupe had potential. As conceived they are great characters. The development however was poor.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    Kara was a nice change from the usual Bond girl, this one had the most romantically charged relationship with Bond since 1969. It still remains up there with OHMSS and CR as the three most romantic Bond films.

    Pam on the other hand was a breath of fresh air in a totally different light. This one assists Bond in his mission like no-one before or since. She's tough and has spirit but never loses her sex appeal.

    I will give you Lupe, but she's exactly the kind of character needed for such a role. A typical glory hunter type of girl.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Murdock wrote: »
    NSNA is awful IMO. Just a boring inferior remake to the already good Thunderball.

    Although all that the film remains inferior to the original "Thunderball". It lacks many fundamental ingredients for being a real Bond movie: there's not the traditional gun barrel sequence, there's not the "James Bond theme", M and Q are not played by the traditional actors... It's a copyright reason: EON only is allowed to use these elements. Briefly, NSNA lacks the classic cinematic 007 atmosphere.

    On the other hand the film is exciting and enjoyable. Brandauer is a very good villain and the women (Basinger and Carrera) are sensual and gorgeous. But the main highlight is Sean Connery! He's once again wonderful in the role, he's older but looks fitter here than in "Diamonds are forever". IMHO it's better than OP & AVTAK.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Kara was a nice change from the usual Bond girl, this one had the most romantically charged relationship with Bond since 1969. It still remains up there with OHMSS and CR as the three most romantic Bond films.

    Pam on the other hand was a breath of fresh air in a totally different light. This one assists Bond in his mission like no-one before or since. She's tough and has spirit but never loses her sex appeal.

    I will give you Lupe, but she's exactly the kind of character needed for such a role. A typical glory hunter type of girl.

    Lupe's in my top 3 Bond girls. She's stunning.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    I don't watch NSNA on principle. The McClory case had a massively detrimental effect on Fleming's health. McClory got his day in the sun with TB and still persisted. Saw it as a kid, no interest in it anymore.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    edited February 2017 Posts: 5,131
    RC7 wrote: »
    I don't watch NSNA on principle. The McClory case had a massively detrimental effect on Fleming's health. McClory got his day in the sun with TB and still persisted. Saw it as a kid, no interest in it anymore.

    IMHO Reports suggest that the bottles of Gin Fleming drank in vast quantities and the constant chain smoking probably effected his health more than the legal stress of Kevin McClory.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    NSNA is cracking good fun. Bond well past his prime, tired and relatively bitter, up against an eclectic cast (sans Basinger) in some beautiful locales with some great action throughout. It gets a bad rap simply because it's non-canon, but I manage to enjoy myself everytime I fire it up.

    +1.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    The incessant smoking and drinking was likely attributed to the legal stress.
  • edited February 2017 Posts: 11,189
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    NSNA is cracking good fun. Bond well past his prime, tired and relatively bitter, up against an eclectic cast (sans Basinger) in some beautiful locales with some great action throughout. It gets a bad rap simply because it's non-canon, but I manage to enjoy myself everytime I fire it up.

    +1.

    I remember when I first saw some of the film as a teenager I found it very dull compared to the official films (most if not all of which I enjoyed). Connery is also very smarmy in it at times and basically plays himself rather than Bond.

    I think above all I find NSNA looks very cheaply made and tatty. I can't really get past that.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    jake24 wrote: »
    The incessant smoking and drinking was likely attributed to the legal stress.

    Maybe. But sources suggest Tha Fleming was susceptible to bout's of melancholy anyhow.....before he wrote Bond.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    This was the straw that broke the camel's back.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I saw NSNA like 4 or 5 times. Gets worse with every viewing.
  • Murdock wrote: »
    I saw NSNA like 4 or 5 times. Gets worse with every viewing.

    Have you ever told yourself you were never going to watch it again?
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    suavejmf wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    I don't watch NSNA on principle. The McClory case had a massively detrimental effect on Fleming's health. McClory got his day in the sun with TB and still persisted. Saw it as a kid, no interest in it anymore.

    IMHO Reports suggest that the bottles of Gin Fleming drank in vast quantities and the constant chain smoking probably effected his health more than the legal stress of Kevin McClory.

    And?
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Murdock wrote: »
    I saw NSNA like 4 or 5 times. Gets worse with every viewing.

    Have you ever told yourself you were never going to watch it again?

    Not yet but I likely will eventually.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Yeah he drank like a bottle of gin a day and smoked 70 cigarettes or something however he had a lot of legal stress over losing his own character in a way losing himself so I dunno
  • RC7RC7
    edited March 2017 Posts: 10,512
    Yeah he drank like a bottle of gin a day and smoked 70 cigarettes or something however he had a lot of legal stress over losing his own character in a way losing himself so I dunno

    The minutiae is irrelevant. McClory persisted to spite Fleming and Connery came back to spite Cubby.
  • MrcogginsMrcoggins Following in the footsteps of Quentin Quigley.
    Posts: 3,144
    Not forgetting that later on it all went back to court which placed Cubby under a great deal of stress , that Mc Clory was a real piece of work !.
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