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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,277
    Connery as Kincaide would have been worse than Blofeld as Bond's foster brother.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,108
    octofinger wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Similar comments are being leveled at Hiddles these days.

    Fair play. I think Hiddles could be a very good - even excellent - Bond in a vacuum. But coming after Craig it might feel a bit jarring.

    A whole new approach has proven to feel rather fresh in hindsight. I think a more refined 007 would certainly work after Craig's tenure.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    octofinger wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Similar comments are being leveled at Hiddles these days.

    Fair play. I think Hiddles could be a very good - even excellent - Bond in a vacuum. But coming after Craig it might feel a bit jarring.

    A whole new approach has proven to feel rather fresh in hindsight. I think a more refined 007 would certainly work after Craig's tenure.
    So do I, and I'm willing to bet that this is the direction we will go post-Craig, whenever that may be.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Yeah, I wonder who had the brilliant idea to make blofeld bonds Foster brother. It's dumb
  • TheSharkFromJawsTheSharkFromJaws Amity Island Waters
    Posts: 127
    JamesBondKenya wrote: »
    Yeah, I wonder who had the brilliant idea to make blofeld bonds Foster brother. It's dumb
    I'm pretty sure that's all on John Logan, as he wrote the first draft before all the rewrites we ended up reading about during the Sony hack stuff. Still, the foster brother angle was reported to be in his first draft and made it all the way into the final film, so I guess everyone is to blame for letting it slide that whole time.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    JamesBondKenya wrote: »
    Yeah, I wonder who had the brilliant idea to make blofeld bonds Foster brother. It's dumb

    That was Hannes Oberhauser.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,019
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    JamesBondKenya wrote: »
    Yeah, I wonder who had the brilliant idea to make blofeld bonds Foster brother. It's dumb

    That was Hannes Oberhauser.
    See? He infiltrated the film industry as well. "We have people everywhere."

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    He got his punishment. Let it go.
  • TellyBlofeldTellyBlofeld
    Posts: 489
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    NSNA is awful IMO. Just a boring inferior remake to the already good Thunderball.

    Although all that the film remains inferior to the original "Thunderball". It lacks many fundamental ingredients for being a real Bond movie: there's not the traditional gun barrel sequence, there's not the "James Bond theme", M and Q are not played by the traditional actors... It's a copyright reason: EON only is allowed to use these elements. Briefly, NSNA lacks the classic cinematic 007 atmosphere.

    On the other hand the film is exciting and enjoyable. Brandauer is a very good villain and the women (Basinger and Carrera) are sensual and gorgeous. But the main highlight is Sean Connery! He's once again wonderful in the role, he's older but looks fitter here than in "Diamonds are forever". IMHO it's better than OP & AVTAK.

    I completely agree with this. Perfect? Nah.
    But some good stuff there, a nice ride into the sunset for the Connery Bond.
    Exciting and enjoyable, not the crime against humanity as sometimes described.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    TellyBlofeld wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    NSNA is awful IMO. Just a boring inferior remake to the already good Thunderball.

    Although all that the film remains inferior to the original "Thunderball". It lacks many fundamental ingredients for being a real Bond movie: there's not the traditional gun barrel sequence, there's not the "James Bond theme", M and Q are not played by the traditional actors... It's a copyright reason: EON only is allowed to use these elements. Briefly, NSNA lacks the classic cinematic 007 atmosphere.

    On the other hand the film is exciting and enjoyable. Brandauer is a very good villain and the women (Basinger and Carrera) are sensual and gorgeous. But the main highlight is Sean Connery! He's once again wonderful in the role, he's older but looks fitter here than in "Diamonds are forever". IMHO it's better than OP & AVTAK.

    I completely agree with this. Perfect? Nah.
    But some good stuff there, a nice ride into the sunset for the Connery Bond.
    Exciting and enjoyable, not the crime against humanity as sometimes described.
    +1.
  • TellyBlofeldTellyBlofeld
    Posts: 489
    Roadphill wrote: »
    @BondJames I agree with you on Dalton's girls. They where uniformly naff.

    On the subject of NSNA, I am firmly in the camp of those that dislike it. It does have some pro's for sure. A superb performance from Klaus Maria Brandeur is chief among them.

    The biggest problem is simply that it looks cheap. Also it has a terribly weak finale, an awful score...I could go on, but lastly I will say that even though Bond ia portrayed as a wily veteran in it, Connery still looks too old.

    Now I know Roger is a couple of years older, and OP was being filmed at the same time, but Roger aged far better than Sean. It was fun to see Sean back but that quickly dissipated when one realises how geriatric he looks.

    Totally disagree. I thought Sean blew Roger out of the water in the NSNA/OP comparison. It always shocks me when people defend OP, one of the worst of Moore's 007 films. Understand it has supporters, but that film encapsulates the malaise and parody that was the franchise during that period. Is NSNA a great movie? No, but prefer it to OP. Rather easily.
  • bigladiesmanbigladiesman
    edited February 2017 Posts: 1,009
    My latest controversial opinion? I think Idris Elba could be a great Bond and he's my fav candidate at the moment. I see him as a Connery-esque character, and I don't care about ethnicities if the candidate can fit in the tuxedo.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,019
    TellyBlofeld wrote: »
    I thought Sean blew Roger out of the water in the NSNA/OP comparison. It always shocks me when people defend OP, one of the worst of Moore's 007 films. Understand it has supporters, but that film encapsulates the malaise and parody that was the franchise during that period. Is NSNA a great movie? No, but prefer it to OP. Rather easily.
    To paraphrase Carly Simon: Nobody Said It Better.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    TellyBlofeld wrote: »
    [

    Totally disagree. I thought Sean blew Roger out of the water in the NSNA/OP comparison. It always shocks me when people defend OP, one of the worst of Moore's 007 films. Understand it has supporters, but that film encapsulates the malaise and parody that was the franchise during that period. Is NSNA a great movie? No, but prefer it to OP. Rather easily.

    No way,wrong wrong wrong...
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2017 Posts: 23,883
    TellyBlofeld wrote: »
    Roadphill wrote: »
    @BondJames I agree with you on Dalton's girls. They where uniformly naff.

    On the subject of NSNA, I am firmly in the camp of those that dislike it. It does have some pro's for sure. A superb performance from Klaus Maria Brandeur is chief among them.

    The biggest problem is simply that it looks cheap. Also it has a terribly weak finale, an awful score...I could go on, but lastly I will say that even though Bond ia portrayed as a wily veteran in it, Connery still looks too old.

    Now I know Roger is a couple of years older, and OP was being filmed at the same time, but Roger aged far better than Sean. It was fun to see Sean back but that quickly dissipated when one realises how geriatric he looks.

    Totally disagree. I thought Sean blew Roger out of the water in the NSNA/OP comparison. It always shocks me when people defend OP, one of the worst of Moore's 007 films. Understand it has supporters, but that film encapsulates the malaise and parody that was the franchise during that period. Is NSNA a great movie? No, but prefer it to OP. Rather easily.
    I'm afraid I must disagree here. I do enjoy NSNA, but find OP runs at a much tighter pace and is more engaging, with more suspense. Sure, there are those ridiculous jokes (which the film would have been much better without), but overall OP is the more exciting entry for me. Moreover, it's one of the few that has a pretty thrilling later half. Once Bond hits Germany, things really get going nicely.

    I prefer the villains and the Bond girl too.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I'll gladly watch Octopussy over Never Say Never Again anyday. A far better and more entertaining film.
  • TellyBlofeldTellyBlofeld
    Posts: 489
    We're going to have to agree to disagree. There's some silly stuff in NSNA, but OP is flat-out a bad story with numerous really, really bad jokes. "Sit!" for example. The epitome of the Moore horror parody of that period. The man just did not respect the character, in my opinion. Sean acts like a secret agent, Roger laughs at the idea of being one.
    Sorry.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    The story is bad ? compared to a spoof TB remake ?
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    TellyBlofeld wrote: »
    We're going to have to agree to disagree. There's some silly stuff in NSNA, but OP is flat-out a bad story with numerous really, really bad jokes. "Sit!" for example. The epitome of the Moore horror parody of that period. The man just did not respect the character, in my opinion. Sean acts like a secret agent, Roger laughs at the idea of being one.
    Sorry.

    Your negative opinions on Moore and his "comedy" reach levels beyond hyperbole. Have you ever watched any of Roger's Bond films? Not once does he treat the character as a joke. Maybe silly things happen with him but I highly doubt those humorous scenes were his ideas. If anything Sean treats Bond like a joke in NSNA.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,019
    Maybe this is partly due to the fact that I am German and grew up in divided Germany, mostly close to the border, but I must say that OP to me is the most "fairy-tale" Bond movie of them all. The story is ludicrous, especially regarding East/West Germany. Any hole in the weir across the Spree River that was big enough to let a dead body (clown costume or not) pass would have been a magnet to East German refugees. A train coming directly from East Germany would never have been allowed to enter a U.S. Air Base without strictest controls. Not to mention the numerous goofs that fall into the same category, like communist propaganda banners that the train passes under AFTER having crossed into the West. (I'll omit tigers, gorilla and clown costumes etc. this time.)

    All in all, I think that OP is about as realistic as Harry Potter. Except that nobody knew about Harry Potter in 1983.

    No, quite frankly, my appreciation for OP keeps shrinking to the point that I may prefer AVTAK pretty soon. While I still think, as I always have, that NSNA is possibly more entertaining than TB...but certainly than OP.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I'm curious @j_w-pepper. Did you grow up in the East or the West?
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    edited February 2017 Posts: 9,019
    West, of course...or I wouldn't have seen a Bond movie before 1989. But the Iron Curtain and the Cold War were daily reality for me. Not necessarily as a problem, but as a presence. Most of my first 30+ years I lived no more than 50 km from the East German border, you couldn't drive on the Autobahn without passing at least one military convoy, you got checked and possibly harassed by border guards when travelling to West Berlin...etc. etc.

    Now I don't mind making fun of those circumstances. One of my favourite movies is Billy Wilder's ONE, TWO, THREE which does that perfectly. But it doesn't thrill me in a Bond film.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Thanks. I was just curious to understand more about your perspective. I wasn't aware that a Bond film couldn't be seen in East Germany prior to the wall coming down. I assumed there might have been restrictions, but always thought that folks would have found a way around it.

    It's interesting to read about your views on this, given you lived nearby.
  • TellyBlofeldTellyBlofeld
    Posts: 489
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    Maybe this is partly due to the fact that I am German and grew up in divided Germany, mostly close to the border, but I must say that OP to me is the most "fairy-tale" Bond movie of them all. The story is ludicrous, especially regarding East/West Germany. Any hole in the weir across the Spree River that was big enough to let a dead body (clown costume or not) pass would have been a magnet to East German refugees. A train coming directly from East Germany would never have been allowed to enter a U.S. Air Base without strictest controls. Not to mention the numerous goofs that fall into the same category, like communist propaganda banners that the train passes under AFTER having crossed into the West. (I'll omit tigers, gorilla and clown costumes etc. this time.)

    All in all, I think that OP is about as realistic as Harry Potter. Except that nobody knew about Harry Potter in 1983.

    No, quite frankly, my appreciation for OP keeps shrinking to the point that I may prefer AVTAK pretty soon. While I still think, as I always have, that NSNA is possibly more entertaining than TB...but certainly than OP.

    Thank you.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    TellyBlofeld wrote: »
    We're going to have to agree to disagree. There's some silly stuff in NSNA, but OP is flat-out a bad story with numerous really, really bad jokes. "Sit!" for example. The epitome of the Moore horror parody of that period. The man just did not respect the character, in my opinion. Sean acts like a secret agent, Roger laughs at the idea of being one.
    Sorry.

    Nah.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,106
    bigladiesman wrote: »
    My latest controversial opinion? I think Idris Elba could be a great Bond and he's my fav candidate at the moment. I see him as a Connery-esque character, and I don't care about ethnicities if the candidate can fit in the tuxedo.

    This is very controversial indeed as he's not even a candidate.
  • TellyBlofeldTellyBlofeld
    Posts: 489
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bigladiesman wrote: »
    My latest controversial opinion? I think Idris Elba could be a great Bond and he's my fav candidate at the moment. I see him as a Connery-esque character, and I don't care about ethnicities if the candidate can fit in the tuxedo.

    This is very controversial indeed as he's not even a candidate.

    I like Elba as well, but I think Daniel will return at this point.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    edited February 2017 Posts: 5,131
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bigladiesman wrote: »
    My latest controversial opinion? I think Idris Elba could be a great Bond and he's my fav candidate at the moment. I see him as a Connery-esque character, and I don't care about ethnicities if the candidate can fit in the tuxedo.

    This is very controversial indeed as he's not even a candidate.

    Bond is white. He's not a candidate. In the Bond documentary EoN, Barbara states that Cubby said to her "Don't let outside forces screw it up." Casting a none white Bond would be screwing it up ten fold.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    TellyBlofeld wrote: »
    Roadphill wrote: »
    @BondJames I agree with you on Dalton's girls. They where uniformly naff.

    On the subject of NSNA, I am firmly in the camp of those that dislike it. It does have some pro's for sure. A superb performance from Klaus Maria Brandeur is chief among them.

    The biggest problem is simply that it looks cheap. Also it has a terribly weak finale, an awful score...I could go on, but lastly I will say that even though Bond ia portrayed as a wily veteran in it, Connery still looks too old.

    Now I know Roger is a couple of years older, and OP was being filmed at the same time, but Roger aged far better than Sean. It was fun to see Sean back but that quickly dissipated when one realises how geriatric he looks.

    Totally disagree. I thought Sean blew Roger out of the water in the NSNA/OP comparison. It always shocks me when people defend OP, one of the worst of Moore's 007 films. Understand it has supporters, but that film encapsulates the malaise and parody that was the franchise during that period. Is NSNA a great movie? No, but prefer it to OP. Rather easily.

    I like OP, but some of the 'Moore' comedic moments ruin the tension. Because it has Connery, basically a Fleming story, better Bond girls and a better villain.....I actually prefer NSNA.
  • TellyBlofeldTellyBlofeld
    Posts: 489
    suavejmf wrote: »
    TellyBlofeld wrote: »
    Roadphill wrote: »
    @BondJames I agree with you on Dalton's girls. They where uniformly naff.

    On the subject of NSNA, I am firmly in the camp of those that dislike it. It does have some pro's for sure. A superb performance from Klaus Maria Brandeur is chief among them.

    The biggest problem is simply that it looks cheap. Also it has a terribly weak finale, an awful score...I could go on, but lastly I will say that even though Bond ia portrayed as a wily veteran in it, Connery still looks too old.

    Now I know Roger is a couple of years older, and OP was being filmed at the same time, but Roger aged far better than Sean. It was fun to see Sean back but that quickly dissipated when one realises how geriatric he looks.

    Totally disagree. I thought Sean blew Roger out of the water in the NSNA/OP comparison. It always shocks me when people defend OP, one of the worst of Moore's 007 films. Understand it has supporters, but that film encapsulates the malaise and parody that was the franchise during that period. Is NSNA a great movie? No, but prefer it to OP. Rather easily.

    I like OP, but some of the 'Moore' comedic moments ruin the tension. Because it has Connery, basically a Fleming story, better Bond girls and a better villain.....I actually prefer NSNA.

    The snake charmer playing the Bond theme. Groan.

    NSNA ain't perfect, but way more entertaining than OP.
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