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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • 007ClassicBondFan007ClassicBondFan
    edited February 2017 Posts: 2,264
    I always found NSNA to be quite an uncomfortable movie to watch. Yeah it has Connery in it, but some of the elements just threw me off. It's a movie that has dated so horribly, that it makes FYEO (another movie that hasn't aged well) look look as timeless as Connery's early efforts (and I love FYEO btw). The casino video game scene, the scene where he saves Domino on the horse, the music score, some of the casting choices (Basigner, Rowan Atkinson, the MI6 regulars), the story (I never found Thunderball's plot to be interesting tbh), the underwater battle at the end, and most of all, what really set me off, was the waste of screen time that was Max Von Sydow as Blofeld. No wrap up to his character whatsoever, I understand it wasn't in the book or original film, but for Kevin Mclory to cause so many problems to EON by holding on to Blofeld and SPECTRE, and not have him wrap the character up in the film is just absurd. There are good things about it of coarse; Connery shines once again as Bond, the scene with the bomb that he's making the man hold is great, and Klaus Maria Brandauer is excellent as Largo, as is Fatima Blush, but it's a movie I never revisit (along with the 60s Casino Royale).
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    He got his punishment. Let it go.

    What?
  • TellyBlofeldTellyBlofeld
    Posts: 489
    007ClassicBondFan wrote: »
    I always found NSNA to be quite an uncomfortable movie to watch. Yeah it has Connery in it, but some of the elements just threw me off. It's a movie that has dated so horribly, that it makes FYEO (another movie that hasn't aged well) look look as timeless as Connery's early efforts (and I love FYEO btw). The casino video game scene, the scene where he saves Domino on the horse, the music score, some of the casting choices (Basigner, Rowan Atkinson, the MI6 regulars), the story (I never found Thunderball's plot to be interesting tbh), the underwater battle at the end, and most of all, what really set me off, was the waste of screen time that was Max Von Sydow as Blofeld. No wrap up to his character whatsoever, I understand it wasn't in the book or original film, but for Kevin Mclory to cause so many problems to EON by holding on to Blofeld and SPECTRE, and not have him wrap the character up in the film is just absurd. There are good things about it of coarse; Connery shines once again as Bond, the scene with the bomb that he's making the man hold is great, and Klaus Maria Brandauer is excellent as Largo, as is Fatima Blush, but it's a movie I never revisit it (along with the 60s Casino Royale).

    Many of your points are fair, and like I wrote earlier, NSNA not a perfect film by any means, but it feel for more entertaining and interesting and much closer to a serious tone than OP. I much prefer TB to NSNA, but there's some good direction in NSNA that carries the weight the the guy who directed Empire Strikes back, and none of the outright silliness of the Moore film. Understand there are those who like OP a lot, but the comedy really sinks that film, for me.
  • 007ClassicBondFan007ClassicBondFan
    Posts: 2,264
    TellyBlofeld wrote: »
    007ClassicBondFan wrote: »
    I always found NSNA to be quite an uncomfortable movie to watch. Yeah it has Connery in it, but some of the elements just threw me off. It's a movie that has dated so horribly, that it makes FYEO (another movie that hasn't aged well) look look as timeless as Connery's early efforts (and I love FYEO btw). The casino video game scene, the scene where he saves Domino on the horse, the music score, some of the casting choices (Basigner, Rowan Atkinson, the MI6 regulars), the story (I never found Thunderball's plot to be interesting tbh), the underwater battle at the end, and most of all, what really set me off, was the waste of screen time that was Max Von Sydow as Blofeld. No wrap up to his character whatsoever, I understand it wasn't in the book or original film, but for Kevin Mclory to cause so many problems to EON by holding on to Blofeld and SPECTRE, and not have him wrap the character up in the film is just absurd. There are good things about it of coarse; Connery shines once again as Bond, the scene with the bomb that he's making the man hold is great, and Klaus Maria Brandauer is excellent as Largo, as is Fatima Blush, but it's a movie I never revisit it (along with the 60s Casino Royale).

    Many of your points are fair, and like I wrote earlier, NSNA not a perfect film by any means, but it feel for more entertaining and interesting and much closer to a serious tone than OP. I much prefer TB to NSNA, but there's some good direction in NSNA that carries the weight the the guy who directed Empire Strikes back, and none of the outright silliness of the Moore film. Understand there are those who like OP a lot, but the comedy really sinks that film, for me.

    Undoubtly it is a more serious tone than OP. I like OP, if you take it for what it is it's really enjoyable, it manages to rank in the middle for me. Yes NSNA does have its high points, just like any other Bond film, it just was one that I never caught onto when I was younger. Tbh, of the 3 unofficial films, I find myself enjoying CR 1954 than I do the other two.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    @TellyBlofeld @j_w_pepper

    I think you may have slightly misinterpreted what I said, gentlemen. I don't have a huge amount of love for Octopussy either really.

    I simply think NSNA was an exercise in futility. Bringing Sean back was great on paper, but in practice it was pointless. Remember by this point we had already seen him in several films hairless and sporting the white moustache/beard combination that became his look in his later films. My critiques of NSNA are just that, not a vain attempt to say that OP was a Bond classic. I merely used the point of who was aging better at the time between him and Roger, and that was just one reason that I disliked NSNA.

    That being said now the comparison between the two films has been brought into the conversation I will say I am far more likely to rewatch OP than NSNA. It is still firmly in the lower echelon of the EON productions for me, though.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    JamesBondKenya wrote: »
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    He got his punishment. Let it go.

    What?

    Hannes Oberhauser was killed.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    It's interesting that both OP & NSNA came out during the 'Battle of the Bonds' year when they both got a lot of publicity, and these days they are both somewhat 'underrated' entries.
  • MilovyMilovy
    edited February 2017 Posts: 676
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    The absolute worst gunbarrel for me is the one from Skyfall.
    Murdock wrote: »
    QOS and SF tie for worst gunbarrels for me. Just because of the designs themselves.
    The SF gun barrel design is the weakest for me, because it abandons the classic Binder design (like QoS and CR before it) and the texture looks like leather instead of metal.

    What's even stranger is that EON seems to KNOW that Binder's original design is iconic - it was all over Skyfall's marketing campaign and even appears in the 50th anniversary logo directly after the gun barrel in the actual film (see below). Surely Binder's design deserved to be part of the actual gun barrel, as well? It's all very puzzling.

    SFcompare.png
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I prefer Moore when he was finding his feet and still under the influence of Connery in LALD and TMWTGG especially than in his other Bond movies. That said watching Gun is all the more a frustrating experience for me as the tone does not follow.

    +1.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I see three separate timelines in the series.

    Connery, Lazenby, Moore and Dalton are all the same guy.

    Brosnan and Craig both have their own timelines.

  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Milovy wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    The absolute worst gunbarrel for me is the one from Skyfall.
    Murdock wrote: »
    QOS and SF tie for worst gunbarrels for me. Just because of the designs themselves.
    The SF gun barrel design is the weakest for me, because it abandons the classic Binder design (like QoS and CR before it) and the texture looks like leather instead of metal.

    What's even stranger is that EON seems to KNOW that Binder's original design is iconic - it was all over Skyfall's marketing campaign and even appears in the 50th anniversary logo directly after the gun barrel in the actual film (see below). Surely Binder's design deserved to be part of the actual gun barrel, as well? It's all very puzzling.

    SFcompare.png

    +1.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,277
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    I see three separate timelines in the series.

    Connery, Lazenby, Moore and Dalton are all the same guy.

    Brosnan and Craig both have their own timelines.

    Ah but that Bernard Lee portrait in TWINE...
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    What about it? Dench returned in CR, it means nothing.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,277
    Lee ties Brosnan to the previous four. Dench is a clear reboot.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    It s just a picture on the wall. There is no way Connery in DN and Brosnan in DAD is the same Bond.
  • TheSharkFromJawsTheSharkFromJaws Amity Island Waters
    edited February 2017 Posts: 127
    All this NSNA talk reminds of another potentially controversial opinion, but I really think Connery gives a superior and more energetic performance in that movie than he does in either YOLT or DAF.

    NSNA doesn't really deserve all the flak it gets and more (Moore?) Connery as Bond can never be a bad thing. EON or not.

    So, to all the NSNA hate:VillainousAfraidClumber.gif
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Think about it this way between 1962 and 2002 there were 40 years let's say I'm movie years it was 30. Bond could start at dr no as a 25 year old and end in die another day as a 55 year old is sort of works ?
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    It s just a picture on the wall. There is no way Connery in DN and Brosnan in DAD is the same Bond.

    So in that case a Connery cameo in DAD would have been absolutely fine??

    (*ducks for cover*)

  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    JamesBondKenya wrote: »
    Think about it this way between 1962 and 2002 there were 40 years let's say I'm movie years it was 30. Bond could start at dr no as a 25 year old and end in die another day as a 55 year old is sort of works ?

    It's not to be taken literally.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    RC7 wrote: »
    JamesBondKenya wrote: »
    Think about it this way between 1962 and 2002 there were 40 years let's say I'm movie years it was 30. Bond could start at dr no as a 25 year old and end in die another day as a 55 year old is sort of works ?

    It's not to be taken literally.

    I know but what I'm saying is it can be one timeline, had Craig been in the same timeline it would be impossible but because he's not it works
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 16,149
    TheSharkFromJaws wrote: »
    All this NSNA talk reminds of another potentially controversial opinion, but I really think Connery gives a superior and more energetic performance in that movie than he does in either YOLT or DAF.

    NSNA doesn't really deserve all the flak it gets and more (Moore?) Connery as Bond can never be a bad thing. EON or not.

    So, to all the NSNA hate:VillainousAfraidClumber.gif

    Well said. I've always loved NSNA. Much of the flak NSNA receives has been repeated in later films, especially in the Craig era. I agree Sean is far more engaged in the part here than in YOLT or DAF. That 12 year break really charged his batteries, and he's great as a retired Bond who can bed one lady, be chased by sharks underwater, then bed another moments later. He's the man!
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    controversial opinion-- at least for me 'cause I love Daniel Craig-- but I couldn't stand when, in SP, he did that roar/yell in the plane as he was chasing after Madeline and Hinx, then another kind of yell during the "look at me" scene just before he gets clocked in the knee by ESB's henchmen.

    Both times it took me out of the film. I was surprised DC chose to do this, as if it was showing how "involved" and "desperate" he was in both scenes.

    As most know I love DC. He's right up their with King Connery. But I was bothered by this approach and I actually found it... lazy acting:(
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I agree @peter. Both were uncharacteristic of his traditional style and approach. I also didn't like the "oh no!" or something along those lines in the car when Sinatra starts playing.

    He was most like his old self at L'Americaine and at White's, and I quite liked his performance in both spots.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    That plane sequence was cool though these bond films really know how to make exciting action
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 16,149
    peter wrote: »
    controversial opinion-- at least for me 'cause I love Daniel Craig-- but I couldn't stand when, in SP, he did that roar/yell in the plane as he was chasing after Madeline and Hinx, then another kind of yell during the "look at me" scene just before he gets clocked in the knee by ESB's henchmen.

    Both times it took me out of the film. I was surprised DC chose to do this, as if it was showing how "involved" and "desperate" he was in both scenes.

    As most know I love DC. He's right up their with King Connery. But I was bothered by this approach and I actually found it... lazy acting:(

    I kind of wish Craig had a more subtle response when Madeline is being shown her father's suicide. Possibly something more like Roger's when Howe is shot by Zorin and Stacey latches on to him for that moment. Both sequences involve Bond and his leading lady in an intense situation with the main villain, but Roger keeps his cool.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    I don't mind Bond being affected by his women and their reactions; in fact, I'd say Connery's Bond, pretending he doesn't care about Honey in front of Dr. No, showed him at his most vulnerable.

    I just couldn't stand the dramatic shrieks of DC in SP; it wasn't effective , and as @bondjames stated, went against DC's style and approach
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    My previous ranking had dr no at second to last. After my most recent viewing of it I've realized something, picking your five favorite films is easy but actually ranking them is impossible because I love every bond film there are something redeeming about all of them. I moved up dr no from space 23 to 16 . I found it much more enjoyable this time around as I accepted the production flaws and was able to be thoroughly entertained by the Fleming. Weirdly enough I couldn't stop comparing it to SPECTRE and found quite a few similarities in the under tone..........
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 16,149
    MrKissKissBangBang wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    controversial opinion-- at least for me 'cause I love Daniel Craig-- but I couldn't stand when, in SP, he did that roar/yell in the plane as he was chasing after Madeline and Hinx, then another kind of yell during the "look at me" scene just before he gets clocked in the knee by ESB's henchmen.

    Both times it took me out of the film. I was surprised DC chose to do this, as if it was showing how "involved" and "desperate" he was in both scenes.

    As most know I love DC. He's right up their with King Connery. But I was bothered by this approach and I actually found it... lazy acting:(

    I kind of wish Craig had a more subtle response when Madeline is being shown her father's suicide. Possibly something more like Roger's when Howe is shot by Zorin and Stacey latches on to him for that moment. Both sequences involve Bond and his leading lady in an intense situation with the main villain, but Roger keeps his cool.

    That 'Look at me!' scene is one of the series' most cringe-inducing moments for me. Some of the gags from Moore's era are terrible. Some have a certain charm about them, some don't, but since they are gags, they're cosmetic. They can be taken out and not harm the rest of the film. But a scene as pivotal as this, that they're playing straight - it's an abomination.

    You've also pointed out something about Roger Moore's performance in AVTAK. It's one of the most focused performances in the series. Here, he's grounded and more cynical, and his charm seems more connected than the eyef**king that occurs in his earlier films. Because of this, his age isn't a factor (though I think he looks better in AVTAK than in OP).
    I think it's one of his best performances as Bond. I love his genuine disdain for Zorin. His age never bothered me, and he's definitely leaner than in OP.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I think he should be shrieking for ten minutes, as a homage to Stacey.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2017 Posts: 23,883
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I think it's one of his best performances as Bond. I love his genuine disdain for Zorin.
    "Brilliant. I'm speechless with admiration", "killing Tibbet was a mistake" & "it's not mutual" are all delivered with suitable revulsion.

    It is a top notch performance in many ways, but I did find him quite uncredible in the film overall due to age. The same went for many of the others too (Macnee, Maxwell etc.). It was most notable at Ascot.
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