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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,198

    1. Blofeld is actually one of the weaker villains in the series
    partly agree, he is certainly not one of the strongest...

    2. Octopussy is probably the most offensive Bond film. OP isn't just self aware and ridiculous like DAD, it's borderline slapstick (still enjoy it though)
    I agree that it is probably the most inconsistant in terms of humour and suspense

    3. "Nobody Does It Better" by Carly Simon marked a string of not very good theme songs until AVTAK
    Don't agree since I really like "For your eyes only". Probably the most emotional song in the franchise. But I guess it is me who is controversial in this regard


    4. The pre-titles in TSWLM feature the weakest ski sequence of the entire series (but features one of the finest stunts to cap it off)
    Agree

    5. The Brosnan era is better than the Dalton era
    Don't agree. But they are difficult to compare. There are 4 Brosnan films and only two Dalton films. I however prefer Dalton over Brosnan.

    6. Major Anya Amasova is reduced to a grouchy sibling not only in the script but also by Barbara Bach's one note performance
    I agree that Amasova is not given much to do. She has much screen time but has hardly any skills to support Bond (very similar to Madeleine in SP actually). However, I quite like their "competitive relationship" and don't mind Bach's acting.


    7. Elektra King is the best villain in the entire series
    She is not bad but by no means the best Bond villain
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Brosan's era is better than Dalton's by a mile ..much better.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Brosan's era is better than Dalton's by a mile ..much better.

    Ha ha ha. Great joke matey.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    suavejmf wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Brosan's era is better than Dalton's by a mile ..much better.

    Ha ha ha. Great joke matey.

    I never joke about my work @suavejmf ;)

  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,084
    GamesBond007 wrote: »
    1. Blofeld is actually one of the weaker villains in the series
    Disagree to the extent that the notion of a single Blofeld is misleading. The only thing they all have in common is being the head of S.P.E.C.T.R.E (even when it plays absolutely no role in the movie) and being called Blofeld. My favourite Blofelds are the "invisible" ones from the early films, then Pleasence, Savalas, Grey, and Waltz is a case by himself, really. Also honourable mention to Max von Sydow. But weaker than other villains? I don't know. Stromberg, e.g., is totally bland, Drax is more enjoyable but a copy of Stromberg, Mr. Big/Kananga is a superstitious thug...
    2. Octopussy is probably the most offensive Bond film. OP isn't just self aware and ridiculous like DAD, it's borderline slapstick (still enjoy it though)
    I have to come to the conclusion that I share every type of criticism levied at OP. It's just not a good movie with a pretty stupid fairy-tale story, and yes, it's mostly borderline slapstick to an extent I don't wish to see again in a Bond film.
    3. "Nobody Does It Better" by Carly Simon marked a string of not very good theme songs until AVTAK
    Disagree. NDIB is (for me) one of the best Bond theme songs ever, and I prefer both of its successors over the themes for AVTAK and TLD. The next good one for me was LTK. Generally I must say that I prefer female voices for Bond themes, and I find Duran Duran "overrated" and a-Ha a complete nuisance (does not apply to John Barry's use of the themes in his scores).
    4. The pre-titles in TSWLM feature the weakest ski sequence of the entire series (but features one of the finest stunts to cap it off)
    Ski chases have come a dime a dozen in Bond films since OHMSS. One of the best parts of the Craig era is not having had yet another ski chase. I wouldn't be able to decide on a hierarchy. But the parachute stunt in TSWLM is of course great and unrivalled.
    5. The Brosnan era is better than the Dalton era
    No way. I'd rate both TLD and GE 8/10 (to use the IMDb system) but prefer TLD. I'd rate both TND and LTK 7/10, tied. But maybe Dalton was lucky that his run didn't continue, since it is the final two Brosnan films that sink his era for me (TWINE - 5/10, DAD - 4). The two worst Bond films ever, not counting CR'67.
    6. Major Anya Amasova is reduced to a grouchy sibling not only in the script but also by Barbara Bach's one note performance
    Not sure about the sibling metaphor, but she really is a lousy actress.
    7. Elektra King is the best villain in the entire series
    Not by several miles. Nice to look at, ok actress, but neither particularly ingenious nor particularly insane for a memorable villain. And least of all, particularly credible. Nothing outstanding in any way except being a synthesis of Bond girl and villainess (not just henchwoman) for the first time. Except for that, sort of in the Stromberg and Greene vicinity for me. Which is the low end.


  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2017 Posts: 23,883
    GamesBond007 wrote: »
    1. Blofeld is actually one of the weaker villains in the series
    Fully agreed. It's rather sad that the most effective performances were in the earlier films when he was only partially visible (no, I'm not really a fan of Telly either, although he is still the best fully visible characterization).
    GamesBond007 wrote: »
    2. Octopussy is probably the most offensive Bond film. OP isn't just self aware and ridiculous like DAD, it's borderline slapstick (still enjoy it though)
    I disagree. It has some poor jokes thrown in here and there but it doesn't impact the narrative. I would think the most offensive film might be LALD for obvious reasons.
    GamesBond007 wrote: »
    3. "Nobody Does It Better" by Carly Simon marked a string of not very good theme songs until AVTAK
    I disagree again. It's by far my favourite song, followed by LALD. I don't mind MR either although it's Bassey's weakest effort in my view.
    GamesBond007 wrote: »
    5. The Brosnan era is better than the Dalton era.
    I think they are both weak quite frankly. There are only 3 worthy 'eras' in the Bond canon imho. Connery's, Moore's and Craig's. The rest had one excellent film each imho.
    GamesBond007 wrote: »
    6. Major Anya Amasova is reduced to a grouchy sibling not only in the script but also by Barbara Bach's one note performance
    She's not a great actress, but then again that's par for the course in a Bond film (Soto anyone?). However, she's great to look at and I quite liked her performance in TSWLM. She was cool as a cucumber and is still my favourite 'equal' followed by Lois Chiles's Goodhead.
    GamesBond007 wrote: »
    7. Elektra King is the best villain in the entire series
    That's quite a statement. Marceau is by far the best thing in TWINE, but I don't think she is the best villain. Not by a long shot. We've had some very memorable and iconic villains in the canon and I don't think most would remember King as being one of the top ones.
  • deucelowdeucelow
    Posts: 40
    1:Blofeld is one of the weaker villains in the series.

    I disagree. He does kill Bonds wife after all. On their wedding day.

    2: Octopussy is probably the most offensive Bond film. OP isn't just self aware and ridiculous like DAD, it's borderline slapstick (still enjoy it though)

    Very slapstick. Secret agents in clown suits. Tarzan calls. Bond zooming in on colleagues cleavage. Bond getting pranked whilst hitch hiking to try and save Western Europe...
    Very different take on Bond I thought.

    3:3. "Nobody Does It Better" by Carly Simon marked a string of not very good theme songs until AVTAK

    I like FYEO a lot. And respect Moonraker also. But can see where you're coming from.

    4: 4. The pre-titles in TSWLM feature the weakest ski sequence of the entire series (but features one of the finest stunts to cap it off)

    Agree. My favourite is FYEO.

    5:5. The Brosnan era is better than the Dalton era.

    Not to my mind, but I'm probably in a minority. I couldn't see Brosnan or Moore pulling off LTK. But I can see Dalton nailing GE.
    Dalton was an excellent Bond and ridiculous lawsuits cost him and us at least one film and probably two. A great shame.

    6: 6. Major Anya Amasova is reduced to a grouchy sibling not only in the script but also by Barbara Bach's one note performance

    Poor casting.

    7: 7. Elektra King is the best villain in the entire series

    Wow. I'm going with Kananga.



  • GamesBond007GamesBond007 Golden Grotto
    Posts: 66
    @bondjames Just my opinion of course. But I find Elektra to be the best villain because she is one of the few that's actually given deeper motivation fueled by a more tragic backstory than we're used to. A strong villainess with some fairly haunting scenes in which Marceau takes full advantage.

    Don't get me wrong, we have more iconic villains but they are cartoon characters, cardboard cut outs with no motivation beyond greed. Fun to look at but hollow. It was a nice change of pace to get some more depth to our main villain and her henchman Renard.

  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    I think the Living Daylights is better than any Brosnan or Moore film
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2017 Posts: 23,883
    @GamesBond007, I can understand where you're coming from. I just watched TWINE yesterday and it's true that Elektra has an interesting backstory. Marceau does an excellent job with what she's given as well. Unfortunately, I have a lot of problems with TWINE (including casting of Renard, poor chemistry between Marceau and Carlyle, dialogue, acting by Brosnan, Arnold's score etc.) which prevent me from fully enjoying what she brings to the table in this film. Bean's Alec Trevelyn also had a personal motivation though, as did Bardem's Silva in SF.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    bondjames wrote: »
    @GamesBond007, I can understand where you're coming from. I just watched TWINE yesterday and it's true that Elektra has an interesting backstory. Marceau does an excellent job with what she's given as well. Unfortunately, I have a lot of problems with TWINE (including casting of Renard, poor chemistry between Marceau and Carlyle, dialogue, acting by Brosnan, Arnold's score etc.) which prevent me from fully enjoying what she brings to the table in this film. Bean's Alec Trevelyn also had a personal motivation though, as did Bardem's Silva in SF.

    Yeah renards kind of annoying
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    JamesBondKenya wrote: »
    I think the Living Daylights is better than any Brosnan or Moore film

    No no no....

    [-X
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    barryt007 wrote: »
    JamesBondKenya wrote: »
    I think the Living Daylights is better than any Brosnan or Moore film

    No no no....

    [-X

    Now why not?
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    JamesBondKenya wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    JamesBondKenya wrote: »
    I think the Living Daylights is better than any Brosnan or Moore film

    No no no....

    [-X

    Now why not?

    Well I think ,from a neutral point of view,its not better than GE,TSWLM or OP ...maybe even throw FYEO and LALD in there as well.

  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    bondjames wrote: »
    GamesBond007 wrote: »
    5. The Brosnan era is better than the Dalton era.
    I think they are both weak quite frankly. There are only 3 worthy 'eras' in the Bond canon imho. Connery's, Moore's and Craig's. The rest had one excellent film each imho.

    I couldn't agree more.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Is it fair to say that the last 3 bond actors have all peaked with their first film?
  • TellyBlofeldTellyBlofeld
    Posts: 489
    JamesBondKenya wrote: »
    I think the Living Daylights is better than any Brosnan or Moore film

    I agree with you, save for Goldeneye.
  • RC7RC7
    edited March 2017 Posts: 10,512
    MrKissKissBangBang wrote: »
    pachazo wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    GamesBond007 wrote: »
    5. The Brosnan era is better than the Dalton era.
    I think they are both weak quite frankly. There are only 3 worthy 'eras' in the Bond canon imho. Connery's, Moore's and Craig's. The rest had one excellent film each imho.

    I couldn't agree more.

    Not quite. Every era has good and not-so-good - except Lazenby, since OHMSS is a gem. But the three iconic eras of Bond are Connery, Moore and Brosnan. People get confused by Lazenby and Dalton, and lots of the general public who talk about Bond say Craig's era is either trying to be like the Bourne series, is too self conscious, or they still aren't buying him because he looks too different/not charming enough to be Bond, and they usually reference Connery, Moore or Brosnan.

    I'd love to see the box office takings if people were 'buying' Craig.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    MrKissKissBangBang wrote: »
    There's a little thing called inflation, my friend.

    Side note: that's what makes TB's earnings so impressive.

    The same inflation that places SF and SP 1st and 4th respectively on the all time list?
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    From reading a few of his posts now, I'm sure that @MrKissKissBangBang is the cold left-overs from craig-not-bond era.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,169
    peter wrote: »
    From reading a few of his posts now, I'm sure that @MrKissKissBangBang is the cold left-overs from craig-not-bond era.

    Oh the Craig not Bond tribe are still going. Unless one of them got bored, or lonely I would be surprised. We have a very varied set of members, who enjoy many different aspects of the world of OO7.

  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Benny wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    From reading a few of his posts now, I'm sure that @MrKissKissBangBang is the cold left-overs from craig-not-bond era.

    Oh the Craig not Bond tribe are still going. Unless one of them got bored, or lonely I would be surprised. We have a very varied set of members, who enjoy many different aspects of the world of OO7.

    That's why this is place to be for all things 007,Benster,me old pal !!

  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    Here are a few more controversial opinions:

    1. Coming from a SP apologist, I think AVTAK is a wayyyyyyyy more entertaining film than SP.
    2. Fans call Dalton "ahead of his time" (I agree his idea of Bond was ahead, his execution stunk), but I think Christopher Walken's Max Zorin was wayyyyyyyy ahead of his time, and would be awesome in a DC film.
    3. Zorin and May-Day's relationship was interesting and unique (think their karate battle)
  • MilovyMilovy
    Posts: 676
    I don't know if this is controversial, but I often see Bond fans praise Brosnan's performance as one of the few bright spots in DAD. I couldn't disagree more. At best, his facial expressions and body language are all over the map, and at worst he feels like a sleazy playboy. Not like Bond at all.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Brosnans the coolest bond by far
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    JamesBondKenya wrote: »
    Brosnans the coolest bond by far

    Agreed!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Milovy wrote: »
    I don't know if this is controversial, but I often see Bond fans praise Brosnan's performance as one of the few bright spots in DAD. I couldn't disagree more. At best, his facial expressions and body language are all over the map, and at worst he feels like a sleazy playboy. Not like Bond at all.
    I'm one who's commented positively on his performance in DAD, but I recognize it's relative, & that the standards are quite low when we're discussing him. To me, he seemed much more confident in DAD and there was a certain carefree, yet restrained arrogance to his Bond in this film (particularly in Cuba and Hong Kong) which I found to be a welcome change from the unfortunate & disappointing overacting he clearly displayed at crucial moments in TWINE. In fact, I'll go so far as to say I much prefer Brosnan on the whole in DAD to Craig in SP.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    More controversial opinions:

    Coming from a Dalton-critic: I find the first 35 minutes of TLD to have more classic Bond and Fleming Bond in the entirety of Brosnan's tenure
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    I think daltons better than every bond actor except rogor Moore
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2017 Posts: 23,883
    JamesBondKenya wrote: »
    I think daltons better than every bond actor except rogor Moore
    This is quite a controversial statement. Why no love for King Sean? Surely TB couldn't have been such a traumatic experience for you?
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