Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    00Beast wrote:
    It always bugs me when people say that the 1960s era of 007 was the "Golden Era". Honestly, I completely disagree. In fact, my bottom four consist of OHMSS, GF, YOLT, and DN. Only FRWL and TB could be called golden for me. If I had to choose a golden Bond era, it would either by the 1980s or the 1990s.

    I think that the 1970s was the golden era of Bond, follwed by the 1990s and the 1980s.
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Connery's best performance as Bond is in DAF, followed by NSNA.

    wtf.jpg

    Why do you think this? I'm really keen to know.

    IMO he was cooler, more relaxed, had more and better one-liners, was more charming and reminded me a little of Roger Moore. I would have liked to see Sean this way in all his films.
    At least one chap was sensible at the time. I'm sorry he got wrapped up in his two camped film last films.
    I agree, Moore should have done YOLT and DAF (NSNA revived his career, so I will give him that one). Who was sensible at the time?

    Post TB Sean didn't like the direction the films were going, mostly the sci-fi direction, and I'm sure he hated the campiness. He was sensible and got out, and only came back to DAF for the paycheck he could donate.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    Here's one:

    Casino Royale's gun-barrell was fun and creative, and should continue being embedded in the action of the scene.
    The Royale barrel was simply in the wrong place, should never have been where it was, I don't care if it's reboot Bond, or 21st Century Bond or whatever, the fact remains they should never have done what they did in 2006 and lo and behold for the next release they included it at the damn finish of all things. It's simple, James Bond gun barrels at the very start of James Bond movies just as they were for the first 40 years, anywhere else is simply not appropriate, discussion closed

    I don't know. I happened to like it. For once, we see the shooter that Bond is killing, and (despite the massive amount of groves in the barrel), it looked the coolest.
  • Posts: 4,762
    00Beast wrote:
    00Beast wrote:
    1.) I actually like AVTAK.
    2.) Sean Connery needed to be in OHMSS.
    3.) George Lazenby is a bad Connery rip off.
    4.) For Your Eyes Only is my least favorite Moore.
    5.) I love Diamonds are Forever.

    I definitely agree on #1,3, and 5. As for #2, I think Connery should have departed the series for good after Thunderball, because he really wasted some good Bond potential on YOLT especially, and was also a little out of style by DAF. Given the direction that DAF took, it would have suited Roger Moore perfectly! As for #4, FYEO is actually my favorite Moore Bond movie, followed closely by Octopussy and Live and Let Die.

    You are spot on about Sean. He should have left after TB while on a high, instead of leaving in a seizure in DAF.
    6.) I love YOLT. It's number 3 on my list after GF and DAF.

    So let's see, Goldfinger and You Only Live Twice are in your Top 3? Wow, that's complete opposite of my rankings, where GF and YOLT are in the bottom three!

    Finishing with OHMSS in dead last, correct @00Beast?

    Yes indeed Brady, yes indeed!
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 4,813
    Wow-- I just watched "Mission: Impossible- Ghost Protocol" last night. That was an OUTSTANDING movie

    Here's my controversial opinion: MI:GP is the movie that QOS should have been. Just consider for a minute-- try to imagine MI:GP but with Bond in place of Ethan and without so much 'teamwork'... more of Bond working alone. That is a Bond movie right there! And a damn good one!!!
    This new Mission: Impossible had absolutely the perfect blend of action and humor-- the later is something QOS lacked.
    In the very beginning when Tom Cruise was signaling to Simon Pegg to open the prison doors via security cam (a hilarious scene), I couldn't stop picturing Bond and Q in a similar scene.
    And a bit later when they were inside the Kremlin and they had that AWESOME gadget that hid them from the guard's view in that long hallway-- that's the type of gadget I want to see in Bond films again. Stuff that makes you say 'WHOA!!' :O
    And that car at the end?? Don't even get me started!! BOND!!!!!
    Literally the whole time I was glued to the screen I kept thinking 'why isn't this a Bond movie???'

    So yes. 'Mission: Impossible- Ghost Protocol' is absolutely the movie 'Quantum of Solace' should have been

    *side note* if you haven't seen MI: GP yet do so NOW. Trust me, it's awesome. I'm ashamed of myself for waiting this long to finally see it! lol
  • Posts: 1,052
    For all the talk of Connery being physical in the role, it is actually verys suprising how little of the physical scenes he was actually that involved in, Bob Simmons is very visible even when Connery was very young?
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 612
    It's funny how everyone has different opinions.

    - DAF is my least favourite Bond movie. AVTAK and DAD are close seconds.
    - I like Lazenby in OHMSS, a lot.
    - Connery's best was Thunderball, he have stopped after that.
    - LTK is Dalton best, and indeed one of the top 5 Bond movies (IMO).
    - It also has an awesome soundtrack.
    - QOS was terrible, but not bottom 5. It had it's moments.
    - CR was one of the best Bond movies (Top 3)
    - @Master_Dahark MI:GP started out really strong, but then got all DADish, and that killed it for me.
    - Moore's best is TSWLM.
    - FYEO could have been his best, but the movie slows down to a painfully slow pace at times.
    - Brosnan is my least favourite Bond. He tries too hard, and he doesn't have enough personality. Too much GQ, not enough wit.
  • Posts: 11,425
    For all the talk of Connery being physical in the role, it is actually verys suprising how little of the physical scenes he was actually that involved in, Bob Simmons is very visible even when Connery was very young?

    True. A lot of the supposed defining characteristics of the Bond actors do not actually match the reality. Connery 'physical', Moore 'camp', Brosnan 'suave'. In truth most of the actors mixed it up a lot more than they are given credit for. Moore put in plenty of decent acting scenes and IMO provided some of the most dramatic moments in the entire series.
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 4,813
    Not so much my own opinion, but rather a question:

    Should Bond actors change with the decade?

    We'd have missed George (some people may like that...) but suppose for a minute, the Bond role went like this:
    • Dr. No (1962-Sean Connery)
    • From Russia With Love (1963-Sean Connery)
    • Goldfinger (1964-Sean Connery)
    • Thunderball (1965-Sean Connery)
    • You Only Live Twice (1967-Sean Connery)
    • On Her Majesty's Secret Service (1969-Sean Connery)

    • Diamonds Are Forever (1971-Roger Moore)
    • Live and Let Die (1973-Roger Moore)
    • The Man with the Golden Gun (1974-Roger Moore)
    • The Spy Who Loved Me (1977-Roger Moore)
    • Moonraker (1979-Roger Moore)

    • For Your Eyes Only (1981-Timothy Dalton)
    • Octopussy (1983-Timothy Dalton)
    • A View to a Kill (1985-Timothy Dalton)
    • The Living Daylights (1987-Timothy Dalton)
    • Licence to Kill (1989-Timothy Dalton)

    • GoldenEye (1995-Pierce Brosnan)
    • Tomorrow Never Dies (1997-Pierce Brosnan)
    • The World is Not Enough (1999-Pierce Brosnan)

    However here’s where it gets a little tricky… since it’s doubtful Craig could have been Bond earlier than Casino Royale—maybe a new actor could take over in the 2000’s- and perhaps the ‘reboot’ could have started with Craig in Casino Royale in 2010?

    • Bond 20 (2001- mystery actor)
    • Bond 21 (2003- mystery actor)
    • Bond 22 (2005- mystery actor)
    • Bond 23 (2007- mystery actor)

    • Casino Royale (2010-Daniel Craig)
    • Quantum of Solace (2011?-Daniel Craig)
    • Skyfall (November 2012-Daniel Craig)
    Even if Craig plays Bond until 2020 he would be 52 years old then. Certainly not the oldest Bond we've seen!

    This could have been pretty awesome-
    • Connery is the Bond of the 60’s
    • Moore is the Bond of the 70’s
    • Dalton is the Bond of the 80’s
    • Brosnan is the Bond of the 90’s
    • Mystery actor is the Bond of the 2000’s- for the fun of it, lets go with someone we know was mentioned, like Clive Owen, or Hugh Jackman or even Ewan McGregor or James Purefoy (any of whom, good or bad, definitely had potential and I was curious to see at least once)
    • Craig is the Bond of the 2010’s

    ‘Bond of the Decade’ is certainly something that could have worked I think
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,713
    @Master great idea, but if Craig debuted in 2010, CR couldn't be a debute mission. I really don't think a 42 years old Craig is credible as a rookie Bond... and Bond starting as a 00 in his 40's is pretty unrealistic.....
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    @Master great idea, but if Craig debuted in 2010, CR couldn't be a debute mission. I really don't think a 42 years old Craig is credible as a rookie Bond... and Bond starting as a 00 in his 40's is pretty unrealistic.....

    Wasn't this conversation on another thread? Bond in the Craig era is supposed to be 35-37, not 40, as Craig himself is.
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 4,813
    @Master great idea, but if Craig debuted in 2010, CR couldn't be a debut mission.
    Oh yeah, I totally forgot that! Alright lets say Craig does debut in 2000 or 2001--
    His movie could be the reboot-- or perhaps in 2010 Henry Cavill gets to be Bond?

    Oh screw it, I don't know, lol. Like I said that's there it gets tricky!
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited April 2012 Posts: 15,713
    @Master great idea, but if Craig debuted in 2010, CR couldn't be a debute mission. I really don't think a 42 years old Craig is credible as a rookie Bond... and Bond starting as a 00 in his 40's is pretty unrealistic.....

    Wasn't this conversation on another thread? Bond in the Craig era is supposed to be 35-37, not 40, as Craig himself is.

    Wrong ! Craig Bond's official dossier says he was 38 in CR. Craig Bond is the same age as Daniel Craig, as both were born in 1968.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    @Master great idea, but if Craig debuted in 2010, CR couldn't be a debute mission. I really don't think a 42 years old Craig is credible as a rookie Bond... and Bond starting as a 00 in his 40's is pretty unrealistic.....

    Wasn't this conversation on another thread? Bond in the Craig era is supposed to be 35-37, not 40, as Craig himself is.

    Wrong ! Craig Bond's official dossier says he was 38 in CR. Craig Bond is the same age as Daniel Craig, as both were born in 1968.

    Okay, still, 38, he's not 40 yet (we don't know how long after CR QOS takes place, it could be 1 month, it could be 1 year), Plus, I wasn't far off. 35-37 isn't far off from 38. Also, it's not like he's a "rookie" in terms of "he has no experience". He's just new to MI6. Again, didn't we have this conversation on another thread? I distinctly remember having this conversation on another thread.
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 1,310
    Here's one that I never thought was controversial until I visited this site:

    Casino Royale and Goldfinger are my #1 and #2 respective Bond films.
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 4,813
    Absolutely right @DaltonCraig007-- James Bond (I don't mean just Daniel Craig-- James Bond) is 38 in his first mission as a OO Agent-- which is not to say he's a 'noob'-- we are to assume he's been a 'Government Agent' for some time, as well as a Commander in the Royal Navy before OO Status, so being 38 isn't that big a deal.

    This is the biggest reason Cavill wasn't picked for CR

    But yeah 42 would be stretching it I agree
  • Posts: 176
    I don't know if that is controversial but I get the sense that most fans loved Jaws. Personally, I thought he was the worst henchman ever. The idea was fine. He was one of the most menacing. I just hated that fact that, no matter what, he would not die. I just got tired of seeing him. I don't know if it was supposed to be amusing but I found it as anoying as heck. I was like JUST DIE ALREADY!

    Needless to say, I wasn't a happy camper when I saw him in MR.
  • Posts: 5,634
    Richard Kiel should never have returned for Moonraker, and too add insult to injury they turn him into a nice guy for it, reminds me of Terminator II when I watch it sometimes, here is this big hulking brute throwing his weight around and causing death and destruction, and for the next release they tweak him into becoming all caring and nice, pass the bucket..

    Has anyone mentioned in Moonraker when Dufour gets attacked by the dobermans, they said, and I quote - 'one of the most nefarious and distressing scenes of the franchise', OK we don't get to see her get mauled by the Drax canines, but I don't feel anything from it apart that it has some dramatic music and would rather Ms Clery had stuck around for a while longer, I rather liked her character. I would rather the awful Chiles had been killed off as soon as possible if anything else

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Wow-- I just watched "Mission: Impossible- Ghost Protocol" last night. That was an OUTSTANDING movie

    Here's my controversial opinion: MI:GP is the movie that QOS should have been. Just consider for a minute-- try to imagine MI:GP but with Bond in place of Ethan and without so much 'teamwork'... more of Bond working alone. That is a Bond movie right there! And a damn good one!!!
    This new Mission: Impossible had absolutely the perfect blend of action and humor-- the later is something QOS lacked.
    In the very beginning when Tom Cruise was signaling to Simon Pegg to open the prison doors via security cam (a hilarious scene), I couldn't stop picturing Bond and Q in a similar scene.
    And a bit later when they were inside the Kremlin and they had that AWESOME gadget that hid them from the guard's view in that long hallway-- that's the type of gadget I want to see in Bond films again. Stuff that makes you say 'WHOA!!' :O
    And that car at the end?? Don't even get me started!! BOND!!!!!
    Literally the whole time I was glued to the screen I kept thinking 'why isn't this a Bond movie???'

    So yes. 'Mission: Impossible- Ghost Protocol' is absolutely the movie 'Quantum of Solace' should have been

    *side note* if you haven't seen MI: GP yet do so NOW. Trust me, it's awesome. I'm ashamed of myself for waiting this long to finally see it! lol
    I'm so glad you loved it! I can't wait to get it on Blu-ray. I have hardly ever seen a film with that great of a balance between drama, action, and comedy. An amazing film that
    completely got me at the end.
  • Posts: 5,745
    I'm so glad you loved it! I can't wait to get it on Blu-ray. I have hardly ever seen a film with that great of a balance between drama, action, and comedy. An amazing film that
    completely got me at the end.

    Got the blu-ray today. Went straight to the Behind The Scenes (because I just re-watched it on my friend's DVD like two days ago) and it was so good seeing how it was done.

    MIGP is quite a jewel. It hints at Hunt's emotions throughout,
    but really gets you at the end. That should be the extent of Bond's 'emotions' in the films. Save it in incriments, so when we get it, its bitter sweet. Don't base entire plots around it ;)

    MIGP is a popcorn spy movie, not an espionage thriller. It sounds cool, looks cool, and is cool. Its not trying to be complicated, nor is it too dumb. The twists are easy to follow, but complex and meaty in their substance. The characters are good, as well.

    MY ONLY COMPLAINT:
    a relatively *weak* villain. He's not weak in a physical sense, but he isn't prevailing in the film. When you get to the BTS stuff on the bluray you'll find ALOT was cut out with the villain, and it really is missed imo.

    But other than that the film is a great feature, following Hunt and his team as everything goes wrong. SUCH A GOOD, ANYTIME MOVIE.
  • Some thoughts on the series

    Judi Dench is one of the worst things to happen to the series

    Whilst watching the Venice scene in MR, I can't stop thinking about the hover-gondola and 'that' pigeon

    AVTAK is a good film with some dark moments. Mayday and Zorin are sinister Bond villains

    DAF is a good movie and Connery is amazing in it

    TLD and LTK are terribly underrated
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Some thoughts on the series

    Judi Dench is one of the worst things to happen to the series

    Whilst watching the Venice scene in MR, I can't stop thinking about the hover-gondola and 'that' pigeon

    AVTAK is a good film with some dark moments. Mayday and Zorin are sinister Bond villains

    DAF is a good movie and Connery is amazing in it

    TLD and LTK are terribly underrated

    Welcome Signed_By_RogerMoore (hope your not related to 007RogerMoore).

    Just had a little look at your list and I'm not sure how we will get along as it seems a little muddled to me but as its our first meeting I'll refrain from giving you the full Wizard treatment for now.

    I would agree in part with regard to Dench although I think that as you are dealing with such a talented actress the fault lies in the writing and direction. She can deliver whatevers required of her but if all she gets to say 'I dont trust you Bond' its hardly her fault.

    Fair point about MR but if you ignore said pigeon and other similar poor judgements MR also actually has some dark moments in the first half and is not a bad entry (well until we go into space).

    AVTAK gets a bad press and I've actually grown a bit more fond of it in recent years. Not a classic but certainly watchable. The only things I really detest are California Girls ruining a very solid PTS and the fire truck chase which is both unnspired and unfunny.

    Oh Signed_By you were doing so well but DAF a good film? No its really not. Tired and extremely by the numbers, it strays several times into Austin Powers territory and parts of it are downright embarassing. Areasonable first act but once it moves to America it gets worse and worse until culminating in a very bland climax which is a pitiful way to dispose of Blofeld. I'll agree Sean is on top form (well aprat from his fitness) and the one liners sparkle but thats not enough. Another Guy Hamilton clunker.

    TLD and LTK are underrated by the public at large but not around here. Most people who know what they are talking about have TLD in or around their top 5.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited April 2012 Posts: 9,117
    Some thoughts on the series

    Judi Dench is one of the worst things to happen to the series

    Whilst watching the Venice scene in MR, I can't stop thinking about the hover-gondola and 'that' pigeon

    AVTAK is a good film with some dark moments. Mayday and Zorin are sinister Bond villains

    DAF is a good movie and Connery is amazing in it

    TLD and LTK are terribly underrated

    Welcome Signed_By_RogerMoore (hope your not related to 007RogerMoore).

    Just had a little look at your list and I'm not sure how we will get along as it seems a little muddled to me but as your new I'll refrain from giving you the full Wizard treatment for now.

    I would agree in part with regard to Dench although I think that as you are dealing with such a talented actress the fault lies in the writing and direction. She can deliver whatevers required of her but if all she gets to say 'I dont trust you Bond' its hardly her fault.

    Fair point about MR but if you ignore said pigeon and other similar poor judgements MR also actually has some dark moments in the first half and is not a bad entry (well until we go into space).

    AVTAK gets a bad press and I've actually grown a bit more fond of it in recent years. Not a classic but certainly watchable. The only things I really detest are California Girls ruining a very solid PTS and the fire truck chase which is both unnspired and unfunny.

    Oh Signed_By you were doing so well but DAF a good film? No its really not. Tired and extremely by the numbers, it strays several times into Austin Powers territory and parts of it are downright embarassing. Areasonable first act but once it moves to America it gets worse and worse until culminating in a very bland climax which is a pitiful way to dispose of Blofeld. I'll agree Sean is on top form (well aprat from his fitness) and the one liners sparkle but thats not enough. Another Guy Hamilton clunker.

    TLD and LTK are underrated by the public at large but not around here. Most people who know what they are talking about have TLD in or around their top 5.

  • edited April 2012 Posts: 12,837
    Some thoughts on the series

    Judi Dench is one of the worst things to happen to the series

    Whilst watching the Venice scene in MR, I can't stop thinking about the hover-gondola and 'that' pigeon

    AVTAK is a good film with some dark moments. Mayday and Zorin are sinister Bond villains

    DAF is a good movie and Connery is amazing in it

    TLD and LTK are terribly underrated

    1- Not Dench, but the way they've used her in Craigs films

    2- IMO they're the least of MR's problems. THEY RUINED JAWS!!!!!

    3- AVTAK is ok. If Moore was younger it would be better. Zorin is great, Mayday is awful.

    4- No.

    5- Yes. They're the best 2 films in the entire series. LTK is my favourite film of all time.
  • Haha thanks for the welcome! :D

    I think my problem with Dench lies that because she is such a big actress, the writers feel they have to bring her in a lot more than they would have ever needed to do with Bernard Lee, for example. Having said that, I thought the fact that she was a 'focus' in TWINE was a nice idea

    Ah I meant CR (sorry). I love MR...accept it for what it is and it's really good and enjoyable. when Craig is brooding in Venice at the end, just can't help but imagine a gondola driving in the background lol.

    Always had a soft spot for AVTAK. Just enjoyed it first time I watched it (wasn't the case with some Bond's e.g. FYEO and OHMSS. The fire truck scene is poor (not helped by the police chief who is as grating as Sheriff J.W. Pepper.

    DAF set the tone and set things up for the Moore era. there are weak parts to the film (Willard Whyte and a poor Felix Leiter, a noted point) but overall, it is a good film. My view of this film is enhanced somewhat by thinking of DAD as a poor remake which it basically is.

    Amazing, speak to people who aren't Bond fans per se and they have never seen/heard of Dalton and his films, which is a shame. Certainly better than Craig's offerings
  • Posts: 1,548
    i must be sleepy. could have sworn i just read that "daf is a good film"! i musht be dreaming!
  • Posts: 6,601
    At times, the IP of some of the new guys, who are all Dalton fans would interest me
    :)) not that's not possible, just saying...
  • Posts: 1,082
    LeChiffre wrote:
    i must be sleepy. could have sworn i just read that "daf is a good film"! i musht be dreaming!

    How about this: DAF is a very good film!
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 12,837
    Germanlady wrote:
    At times, the IP of some of the new guys, who are all Dalton fans would interest me
    :)) not that's not possible, just saying...

    I actually thought the same thing about the Craig fans when he got ahead on the polls again on the Craig vs Dalton thread ;). Anyway, if someone is making alot of accounts it isn't me, swear down.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    Germanlady wrote:
    At times, the IP of some of the new guys, who are all Dalton fans would interest me
    :)) not that's not possible, just saying...

    Looking at the Craig vs Dalton & Craig vs Brosnan polls, it's not the Dalton fans that should be called into question. ;)
  • Posts: 1,052
    The Double-taking pigeon actually offered a rare and valueble insight into the brain of a pigeon?
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