Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • Posts: 676
    bondjames wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I've said it before and I'll say it again, GE is my favourite of the non-Barry scores.
    I agree. It's an excellent score and gives GE its unique flavour, just like all other one-off composer scored films have.
    It would be nice to have another one-off composer. I really like that films like LALD, LTK and GE have a unique sound.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Who is that quote from? I'm not a fan of Serras score, or Brossa, but i find it hard that MGW or Babs would speak of anyone like that assocoated with the Bond series. They're usually more diplomatic!

    Eon to John Altman apparently:

    http://jamesbondradio.com/composer-john-altman-explains-what-went-wrong-with-goldeneyes-score-exclusive-by-matthew-chernov/

  • RC7RC7
    edited March 2017 Posts: 10,512
    The GE score is one of those welcome anomalies that make the Bond series what it is. You rarely get these sort of idiosyncrasies with other franchises, certainly not these days, where everything is show run to within an inch of it's life; maintaining a tedious consistency.
  • I don't mind the GE score, though it really feels clunky during some of the more quiet moments.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    I never knew there was so much controversy regarding Eric's work on the film (by that, I mean with those involved/the chaos of rescoring the tank chase just a week from release). No surprise he was a one-and-done composer for the series, then.

    Only recently heard Serra's take on the tank chase, and it would've put a big damper on the on-screen footage if they had kept it.
  • Creasy47 wrote: »
    I never knew there was so much controversy regarding Eric's work on the film (by that, I mean with those involved/the chaos of rescoring the tank chase just a week from release). No surprise he was a one-and-done composer for the series, then.

    Only recently heard Serra's take on the tank chase, and it would've put a big damper on the on-screen footage if they had kept it.

    It would have been atrocious. If no replacement had been possible, they'd have been better off leaving the sequence without music—and I mean that sincerely.

    That said, I do enjoy the music of GoldenEye overall. There are some great individual tracks and like others I appreciate that GoldenEye has its own very unique musical identity. I've come to appreciate Newman's Skyfall in a similar way, though his microwave-reheated follow-up has cast a serious shadow over his time with the series.
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,722
    When Craig goes I hope they cast smaller, character actors in the roles of M, Moneypenny and Q. With Fiennes, Harris and Wishaw It appears to me that EON feel obliged to give them whole swathes of scenes. Casino Royale in particular benefits from not having to crowbar in Q and Moneypenny scenes. I like the roles, I like the actors - I just want them to be able to not have to write them subplots. Having a name actor as M is fine but I'd prefer they have a three scene maximum.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    When Craig goes I hope they cast smaller, character actors in the roles of M, Moneypenny and Q. With Fiennes, Harris and Wishaw It appears to me that EON feel obliged to give them whole swathes of scenes. Casino Royale in particular benefits from not having to crowbar in Q and Moneypenny scenes. I like the roles, I like the actors - I just want them to be able to not have to write them subplots. Having a name actor as M is fine but I'd prefer they have a three scene maximum.

    It's unnecessary. Dame Judi Dench most certainly wasn't a small time actress before GE, and they had no issues with dialing back her appearances in that film. They should be on screen minimally - when they start getting injected into the main plot of the film/helping Bond out directly like that, it gets to be too much.
  • When Craig goes I hope they cast smaller, character actors in the roles of M, Moneypenny and Q. With Fiennes, Harris and Wishaw It appears to me that EON feel obliged to give them whole swathes of scenes. Casino Royale in particular benefits from not having to crowbar in Q and Moneypenny scenes. I like the roles, I like the actors - I just want them to be able to not have to write them subplots. Having a name actor as M is fine but I'd prefer they have a three scene maximum.

    I get what you're saying—believe me I'm no fan of the Scooby Gang action—but I think things can be handled better moving forward with the same cast. As with Judi Dench, casting Fiennes as M was a masterstroke, and while he disappointed in Spectre, he really shined in Skyfall, so for now I'm willing to chalk that up to a troubled production (ever-changing script, Fiennes having to put his foot down to rescue his own character, director-actor miscommunication as seen by Waltz's own comments).

    Similarly, I don't think Harris and Whishaw necessarily are too big for their parts. Yes, Harris recently received Oscars attention (and Moneypenny in general certainly can do with a much lesser known actress), but that couldn't have been foreseen when she was cast.

    The important thing is how the actors are used in their scenes, not necessarily their total amount of screen-tme. Despite Mendes' comments about what a shame it was that they had this fantastic actress in the part (Dench) and she wasn't being used to her full potential, M actually did feature a fair amount throughout Brosnan's four films, however this is really only felt in the welcome story anomaly of The World Is Not Enough because her character became central to the villain's plot. But in GoldenEye, Tomorrow Never Dies, and Die Another Day, she featured more frequently as well, but she always kept her role as Bond's boss back at HQ or wherever MI6 needed to be stationed. Captured M in TWINE aside, throughout the Brosnan era "action" and "reporting for duty" were always kept separate for the MI6 cast.

    Skip ahead to Craig's era and we have Bond on a tether (CR, QOS, SF, and SP) with M nagging him over the phone, calling out instructions over earpiece (or Q or Moneypenny or Villiers or whomever), personally tracking him down in the field, and most recently now in Spectre the whole gang (M, Moneypenny, Q, and Tanner) involved in a third-act car chase culminating with hand-to-hand combat between M and the secondary villain. We've come some ways from Bernard Lee loading his pipe, haven't we? I'm not saying Q can't occasionally make a well-used excursion into the field (LTK) or that Fiennes' M should never engage in combat (SF) or even that Moneypenny can't have a one-off where she fires a rifle and joins Bond in a casino before being sat officially behind a desk (same, SF), but when this becomes overused it becomes rote, it turns from a special and exciting event into a tiresome trope, and the only exciting thing left to look forward to from the MI6 staff anymore is a rare good old-fashioned traditional office scene with M handing Bond a file and saying, "Get on with it, 007. You're on your own out there."

    So the MI6 staff can be featured more heavily than they were in the 60s or the 70s, but they must be used well, and that's what we haven't been getting.

    And for crying out loud, Tanner needs to be Bond's friend, not some stooge. Just have the two of them golfing or getting drinks or exchanging some pleasantries at the shooting range and give Tanner's present-day role as M's secretary over to Moneypenny, his actual secretary, and without the stoogery thank you.
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,722
    Dench was a respected actor but not that large to the filmgoing public - all her Oscar nominated and winning work came after GE. And I think her initial casting was more a point of difference for the role. As the awards and other films became more visible then she got bigger plots (TWINE for example, QOS and of course SF.)

    I agree @Some_Kind_Of_Hero - I don't think it is any coincidence that with the introduction of Q, Moneypenny and the new M - both Skyfall and Spectre have whole acts set in Britain. I think they're tying themselves in knots - and Spectre is a perfect case in point. 'How do we get the plot and all the characters to be doing something all at the same time'. SF at least did it well - and the climax was devoid of everyone bar Bond and M - but SP did it artlessly. And on a side note - they don't need Tanner. I like Kinnear a lot but his character is the definition of superfluous.
  • I never thought of it that way before but you're right, setting so much of SF and SP in London probably was primarily a way for the filmmakers to give more and more screen-time to the MI6 cast. And I agree about Tanner. He doesn't need to be more than a walk-on part and he really doesn't need to be seen in every film. I too like Kinnear, but reducing Tanner's screen-time will have the added bonus of reducing exposition.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    It still doesn't make her a low-level actress, surely people knew her pre-Bond. Perhaps not at the level that they do now, nor at the same level as say Fiennes (who has mass popularity thanks to 'Harry Potter'), but still.
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,722
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    It still doesn't make her a low-level actress, surely people knew her pre-Bond. Perhaps not at the level that they do now, nor at the same level as say Fiennes (who has mass popularity thanks to 'Harry Potter'), but still.

    I never claimed she was low-level. She was a conscious casting choice to make M female - choose a respected theatre actor opposite Bond. I think we're in agreement here. My point is exactly what you just said - she is more famous because of being in Bond. Particularly outside the UK. Previously she was a respected actor and known face - but being in Bond obviously increased her visibility.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited March 2017 Posts: 8,452
    The Goldeneye score is inspired. The song at the end is dire, and the racing music I can do without, but there are so many tracks that give the film a unique character and atmosphere. The score is among the films strengths.
  • The Goldeneye score is inspired. The song at the end is dire, and the racing music I can do without, but there are so many tracks that give the film a unique character and atmosphere.

    It's one of my favorites as well, although to be perfectly honest, I kind of like the end song...
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Am I the only person who ranks goldeneyes score at the bottom?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Am I the only person who ranks goldeneyes score at the bottom?
    Many dislike it so I wouldn't be surprised if you have company.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    Am I the only person who ranks goldeneyes score at the bottom?

    I figure there are several people on these forums who would rank it dead last. It's not one of my favorites, sadly, but it does have its moments.

  • Anyone who ranks GoldenEye below Monty Norman's Dr. No needs to see an optometrist for ears. ;)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I like the racing music. It fits the intentional playfulness of the scene perfectly.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,359
    I tolerate "Ladies First" but I enjoy "The Experience of Love." GoldenEye's score is my favorite one off Bond score.
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,722
    Anyone who ranks GoldenEye below Monty Norman's Dr. No needs to see an optometrist for ears. ;)

    I need to get my ears checked by an eye doctor then :-)

    (Doctor No perhaps?)

    I love the Doctor No soundtrack.

  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,359
    Here's a controversial opinion. I like Never Say Never Again's score over both of Newman's efforts.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Anyone who ranks GoldenEye below Monty Norman's Dr. No needs to see an optometrist for ears. ;)

    I need to get my ears checked by an eye doctor then :-)

    (Doctor No perhaps?)

    I love the Doctor No soundtrack.

    hahahahahahahahahahahahaha awesome, i dont love dr no's soundtrack but I guess any thing is better than the goldeneye soundtrack
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I would have had a much higher regard for Newman's efforts if he had stopped with SF. I sort of feel sorry for both Mendes and him, because they've sort of ruined their impressive earlier contributions in both cases, at least for me.
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    edited March 2017 Posts: 2,722
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Anyone who ranks GoldenEye below Monty Norman's Dr. No needs to see an optometrist for ears. ;)

    I need to get my ears checked by an eye doctor then :-)

    (Doctor No perhaps?)

    I love the Doctor No soundtrack.

    I like the Jamaican music. And you get the Bond Theme.

    Agreed - The Bond Theme, Jump Up, Twisting With James, Under the Mango Tree, Dr No's Fantasy are all great and I even like Kingston Calypso (Three Blind Mice). It is one of the only 007 soundtracks that reflects the atmosphere of the setting. And totally subjectively speaking I associate it with a film that I love so much. It's a fun soundtrack to put on the record player on a lazy, sunny Sunday while me and the fiancée have drinks on the deck.

    Wish they had released it with the rearrangements of the Tarantula Scene and Dr No's Death - I enjoy that call back in FRWL too!

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Birdleson wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I would have had a much higher regard for Newman's efforts if he had stopped with SF. I sort of feel sorry for both Mendes and him, because they've sort of ruined their impressive earlier contributions in both cases, at least for me.

    Yes, repetition has not been kind to either.
    They both should have taken Onatop's advice. Like Bond, sadly it's one trick they never learned.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,359
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Here's a controversial opinion. I like Never Say Never Again's score over both of Newman's efforts.

    That's a horrific choice! Actually, SF isn't all that bad, it's just that we get the worst of it repeated incessantly in the next film.
    I can agree with it. I do think most of NSNA's score is terrible but there are a few tracks I enjoy from it. The copy and paste job of Skyfall's music into Spectre really struck a nerve in me. Like a really bad tooth ache. If Newman had been a one and done composer, I'd have liked his efforts more.
  • edited March 2017 Posts: 16,223
    Murdock wrote: »
    Here's a controversial opinion. I like Never Say Never Again's score over both of Newman's efforts.

    I'm with you on that one.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,359
    Had the Bond theme been better incorporated in the action music better for Spectre I wouldn't have minded the recycling as much.
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