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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Both scores are at there best when they incorporate the Title Song music, unfortunately Newman only does that for only one brief moment in SP. It is a shame because that small snippet sounds great.

    100%

    I bought the CR album recently and it's amazing how much of the title song is featured in the background score, it's almost in every track and it really adds to the intensity of the score, having one unified tune
  • Some_Kind_Of_HeroSome_Kind_Of_Hero
    edited March 2017 Posts: 6,844
    It helps when the composer co-writes the song with the artist (as with Casino Royale) and intends the theme for use throughout the film from the beginning. As opposed to the composer being told, "We know you're coming up with your own themes here, but we'd like you to use this other theme, too." Which remarkably Arnold was a good enough sport about doing with "Another Way to Die" (of all songs) in Quantum of Solace. In both Skyfall and Spectre neither of the main title themes are integrated into the scores, however they each receive a single seemingly arbitrary orchestral arrangement.

    Skyfall's was included late in the game as I understand it and was arranged not by Newman but by one of the orchestrators who worked on the song with Adele. Spectre's accompanies Bond and Madeleine's impassioned lovemaking following the Hinx fight, and in this respect perhaps serves the film better narratively than Skyfall's theme playing over the approach to the casino (as gorgeous as that moment is aesthetically). However, the sudden lovemaking in Spectre is played for laughs (or at least the transition in is) and the relationship between Bond and Madeleine just slightly less convincing than that between Bond and the Ocean Club receptionist in Casino Royale, so I'm not sure that either of these singular uses of the title theme were put to best use.

    By contrast, the Surrender theme in Tomorrow Never Dies clearly serves as an alternate heroic theme for Bond in the film, the main theme of The World Is Not Enough fittingly serves as Elektra's theme (or perhaps a theme representing the evil scheming of both Elektra and Renard), and the YKMN theme in Casino Royale serves as sort of a proto-James Bond theme for Bond before Bond is really Bond.
  • GetCarterGetCarter
    edited March 2017 Posts: 386
    'Journey to Blofeld's Hideout' from the OHMSS soundtrack is the best thing John Barry has ever done IMHO.

    Before you scoff (a natural reaction), have another listen. It combines tension, romanticism, and old school British swagger all in the one amazing piece.

    It probably encompasses everything there is to know about Bond.

    An astounding, unheralded piece from an all round great soundtrack. I have Barry up there with Vangelis and Morricone as artists who truly understood cinematic music.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2017 Posts: 23,883
    GetCarter wrote: »
    'Journey to Blofeld's Hideout' from the OHMSS soundtrack is the best thing John Barry has ever done IMHO.

    Before you scoff (a natural reaction), have another listen. It combines tension, romanticism, and old school British swagger all in the one amazing piece.

    It probably encompasses everything there is to know about Bond.

    An astounding, unheralded piece from an all round great soundtrack. I have Barry up there with Vangelis and Morricone as artists who truly understood cinematic music.
    It's absolutely fantastic, but I personally prefer if This Never Happened To The Other Feller have that accolade. 5 minutes of sonic perfection.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,007
    GetCarter wrote: »
    'Journey to Blofeld's Hideout' from the OHMSS soundtrack is the best thing John Barry has ever done IMHO.

    Before you scoff (a natural reaction), have another listen. It combines tension, romanticism, and old school British swagger all in the one amazing piece.

    It probably encompasses everything there is to know about Bond.

    An astounding, unheralded piece from an all round great soundtrack. I have Barry up there with Vangelis and Morricone as artists who truly understood cinematic music.

    Nothing controversial about that. its a fantastic piece of music from one of his best scores.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Journey to Blofeld's Hideout is brilliant but Flight into Space is still my personal favourite of his Bond scores.

    In fact I think MR features Barry's best work as a Bond composer.
  • GetCarterGetCarter
    Posts: 386
    bondjames wrote: »
    GetCarter wrote: »
    'Journey to Blofeld's Hideout' from the OHMSS soundtrack is the best thing John Barry has ever done IMHO.

    Before you scoff (a natural reaction), have another listen. It combines tension, romanticism, and old school British swagger all in the one amazing piece.

    It probably encompasses everything there is to know about Bond.

    An astounding, unheralded piece from an all round great soundtrack. I have Barry up there with Vangelis and Morricone as artists who truly understood cinematic music.
    It's absolutely fantastic, but I personally prefer if This Never Happened To The Other Feller have that accolade. 5 minutes of sonic perfection.

    That it is. Barry was well on top of his game in the late sixties.

    The ST for YOLT is one of that film's few saving graces. Though I feel the main theme is repeated too often.

    OHMSS is such a wonderfully varied ST. Even that weird Christmas Tree trip. I still WTF that tune whenever it comes along.

  • GetCarterGetCarter
    Posts: 386
    LeonardPine wrote: »
    GetCarter wrote: »
    'Journey to Blofeld's Hideout' from the OHMSS soundtrack is the best thing John Barry has ever done IMHO.

    Before you scoff (a natural reaction), have another listen. It combines tension, romanticism, and old school British swagger all in the one amazing piece.

    It probably encompasses everything there is to know about Bond.

    An astounding, unheralded piece from an all round great soundtrack. I have Barry up there with Vangelis and Morricone as artists who truly understood cinematic music.

    Nothing controversial about that. its a fantastic piece of music from one of his best scores.

    True that LP.
  • GetCarterGetCarter
    Posts: 386
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Journey to Blofeld's Hideout is brilliant but Flight into Space is still my personal favourite of his Bond scores.

    In fact I think MR features Barry's best work as a Bond composer.

    Yeah some of Barry's best stuff is buried in the more mediocre movies.

    'Wine With Stacey' I recall being particularly lovely from the AVTAK soundtrack.

  • GetCarterGetCarter
    Posts: 386
    While I'm rambling, if I'm not mistaken the central, romantic AVTAK theme returns when the airship looms into view behind Stacey near the mine.

    Great shot, great decision to score it with the slow theme.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    GetCarter wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    GetCarter wrote: »
    'Journey to Blofeld's Hideout' from the OHMSS soundtrack is the best thing John Barry has ever done IMHO.

    Before you scoff (a natural reaction), have another listen. It combines tension, romanticism, and old school British swagger all in the one amazing piece.

    It probably encompasses everything there is to know about Bond.

    An astounding, unheralded piece from an all round great soundtrack. I have Barry up there with Vangelis and Morricone as artists who truly understood cinematic music.
    It's absolutely fantastic, but I personally prefer if This Never Happened To The Other Feller have that accolade. 5 minutes of sonic perfection.

    That it is. Barry was well on top of his game in the late sixties.

    The ST for YOLT is one of that film's few saving graces. Though I feel the main theme is repeated too often.

    OHMSS is such a wonderfully varied ST. Even that weird Christmas Tree trip. I still WTF that tune whenever it comes along.

    But I wasn't born until 1970.
    GetCarter wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Journey to Blofeld's Hideout is brilliant but Flight into Space is still my personal favourite of his Bond scores.

    In fact I think MR features Barry's best work as a Bond composer.

    Yeah some of Barry's best stuff is buried in the more mediocre movies.

    'Wine With Stacey' I recall being particularly lovely from the AVTAK soundtrack.

    My best stuff..and what is this 'stuff' you are referring to eh ? hmm ?

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    GetCarter wrote: »
    While I'm rambling, if I'm not mistaken the central, romantic AVTAK theme returns when the airship looms into view behind Stacey near the mine.

    Great shot, great decision to score it with the slow theme.
    Indeed. As I recall, it's quite ominous as the Dirigible is huge behind her.
    GetCarter wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Journey to Blofeld's Hideout is brilliant but Flight into Space is still my personal favourite of his Bond scores.

    In fact I think MR features Barry's best work as a Bond composer.

    Yeah some of Barry's best stuff is buried in the more mediocre movies.
    I agree. He saved many films with his scoring and in my opinion their next composer must also have that capacity to make the music elevate certain mediocre scenes. It's what separates the boys from the men. Newman failed in this respect with SP. Arnold couldn't do it either (his best work was tied to Craig's earlier outings which were full of great scenes). Some of the one-offs were able to do it (Conti in certain sequences in FYEO, Martin definitely in LALD, Hamlisch in TSWLM & even Kamen in LTK).
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,041
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    The Goldeneye score is inspired. The song at the end is dire, and the racing music I can do without, but there are so many tracks that give the film a unique character and atmosphere. The score is among the films strengths.

    It's taken me awhile to get past the two abberations you mention, but, yes, there is some really good stuff in there as well.
    I share that view. Some of the stuff is genius for the scenes it is designed to accompany (say "Whispering Statues") and incredibly important and helpful in setting the mood for those scenes. "The Experience of Love" is not a bad song in itself (I seem to have detected a certain Stingish quality in the meantime), it's just no Bond song, and Serra should have left the singing to someone else as well. The only thing I really find annoying is "Ladies First". It's down there with the worst Bill Conti noise from FYEO for me.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    My favourite track on OHMSS is Over and Out
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited March 2017 Posts: 8,399
    Kara Milovy is one of the best Bond girls. I don't think she is an idiot like people say, but a innocent young woman. Just like Bibi and her skating, Kara has devoted a lot of time to mastering the cello, and becoming an accomplished musician. There is no shame in that. It's unrealistic to expect her to be capable in Bonds world, but she also doesn't scream her heaf off like Stacey, or become a shrinking violet like Tiffany. Her character is consistent and genuine. To me, that's much better than the false sassiness of more modern Bond girls.

    Yes, she makes silly, obvious mistakes, but that is authentic for someone out of their depth. She has a role to play in the story, and isn't just tagging along for the sake of it.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,041
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    Kara Milovy is one of the best Bond girls. I don't think she is an idiot like people say, but a innocent young woman. Just like Bibi and her skating, Kara has devoted a lot of time to mastering the cello, and becoming an accomplished musician. There is no shame in that. It's unrealistic to expect her to be capable in Bonds world, but she also doesn't scream her heaf off like Stacey, or become a shrinking violet like Tiffany. Her character is consistent and genuine. To me, that's much better than the false sassiness of more modern Bond girls.

    Yes, she makes silly, obvious mistakes, but that is authentic for someone out of their depth. She has a role to play in the story, and isn't just tagging along for the sake of it.
    No contest from me regarding Kara. One of my favourite Bond girls as well. I'm just not as fond of Bibi as you seem to be...and I admit I find the "American" Bond girls the most shallow and annoying, among them Tiffany, Plenty, Christmas, Rosie...and Bibi.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2017 Posts: 23,883
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    Kara Milovy is one of the best Bond girls. I don't think she is an idiot like people say, but a innocent young woman. Just like Bibi and her skating, Kara has devoted a lot of time to mastering the cello, and becoming an accomplished musician. There is no shame in that. It's unrealistic to expect her to be capable in Bonds world, but she also doesn't scream her heaf off like Stacey, or become a shrinking violet like Tiffany. Her character is consistent and genuine. To me, that's much better than the false sassiness of more modern Bond girls.

    Yes, she makes silly, obvious mistakes, but that is authentic for someone out of their depth. She has a role to play in the story, and isn't just tagging along for the sake of it.
    No contest from me regarding Kara. One of my favourite Bond girls as well. I'm just not as fond of Bibi as you seem to be...and I admit I find the "American" Bond girls the most shallow and annoying, among them Tiffany, Plenty, Christmas, Rosie...and Bibi.
    Don't forget the biggest kahuna of all, namely Giacinta Johnson, aka Jinx.

    There's also the legendary Paris Carver, who unbelievably had an emotional impact on James Bond.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    I like Kara too. Her and Tim play off each other well imo.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,041
    bondjames wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    Kara Milovy is one of the best Bond girls. I don't think she is an idiot like people say, but a innocent young woman. Just like Bibi and her skating, Kara has devoted a lot of time to mastering the cello, and becoming an accomplished musician. There is no shame in that. It's unrealistic to expect her to be capable in Bonds world, but she also doesn't scream her heaf off like Stacey, or become a shrinking violet like Tiffany. Her character is consistent and genuine. To me, that's much better than the false sassiness of more modern Bond girls.

    Yes, she makes silly, obvious mistakes, but that is authentic for someone out of their depth. She has a role to play in the story, and isn't just tagging along for the sake of it.
    No contest from me regarding Kara. One of my favourite Bond girls as well. I'm just not as fond of Bibi as you seem to be...and I admit I find the "American" Bond girls the most shallow and annoying, among them Tiffany, Plenty, Christmas, Rosie...and Bibi.
    Don't forget the biggest kahuna of all, namely Giacinta Johnson, aka Jinx.

    There's also the legendary Paris Carver, who unbelievably had an emotional impact on James Bond.
    Again: no contest. But my "among them" remark (which even omitted Stacey Sutton - imagine that) was meant to show I had no intention to list them all.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    Kara Milovy is one of the best Bond girls. I don't think she is an idiot like people say, but a innocent young woman. Just like Bibi and her skating, Kara has devoted a lot of time to mastering the cello, and becoming an accomplished musician. There is no shame in that. It's unrealistic to expect her to be capable in Bonds world, but she also doesn't scream her heaf off like Stacey, or become a shrinking violet like Tiffany. Her character is consistent and genuine. To me, that's much better than the false sassiness of more modern Bond girls.

    Yes, she makes silly, obvious mistakes, but that is authentic for someone out of their depth. She has a role to play in the story, and isn't just tagging along for the sake of it.
    No contest from me regarding Kara. One of my favourite Bond girls as well. I'm just not as fond of Bibi as you seem to be...and I admit I find the "American" Bond girls the most shallow and annoying, among them Tiffany, Plenty, Christmas, Rosie...and Bibi.
    Don't forget the biggest kahuna of all, namely Giacinta Johnson, aka Jinx.

    There's also the legendary Paris Carver, who unbelievably had an emotional impact on James Bond.
    Again: no contest. But my "among them" remark (which even omitted Stacey Sutton - imagine that) was meant to show I had no intention to list them all.
    Noted. I can't believe I forgot about Stacey as well. One of the biggest offenders when it comes to shallow and annoying. Perhaps I tend to cut her some slack because she's easy on the eyes.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,041
    bondjames wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    Kara Milovy is one of the best Bond girls. I don't think she is an idiot like people say, but a innocent young woman. Just like Bibi and her skating, Kara has devoted a lot of time to mastering the cello, and becoming an accomplished musician. There is no shame in that. It's unrealistic to expect her to be capable in Bonds world, but she also doesn't scream her heaf off like Stacey, or become a shrinking violet like Tiffany. Her character is consistent and genuine. To me, that's much better than the false sassiness of more modern Bond girls.

    Yes, she makes silly, obvious mistakes, but that is authentic for someone out of their depth. She has a role to play in the story, and isn't just tagging along for the sake of it.
    No contest from me regarding Kara. One of my favourite Bond girls as well. I'm just not as fond of Bibi as you seem to be...and I admit I find the "American" Bond girls the most shallow and annoying, among them Tiffany, Plenty, Christmas, Rosie...and Bibi.
    Don't forget the biggest kahuna of all, namely Giacinta Johnson, aka Jinx.

    There's also the legendary Paris Carver, who unbelievably had an emotional impact on James Bond.
    Again: no contest. But my "among them" remark (which even omitted Stacey Sutton - imagine that) was meant to show I had no intention to list them all.
    Noted. I can't believe I forgot about Stacey as well. One of the biggest offenders when it comes to shallow and annoying. Perhaps I tend to cut her some slack because she's easy on the eyes.
    So are the others. But in my view, Bond girls are not just about the looks. Just like Bond is not all about the action.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    I've grown to like Stacey more and more over the last several years, whereas I used to find her incredibly, incredibly annoying in nearly every scene she was in.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I've grown to like Stacey more and more over the last several years, whereas I used to find her incredibly, incredibly annoying in nearly every scene she was in.
    Me too strangely. She's particularly annoying in the City Hall scene, but apart from that, she has some spark to her. Plucky.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,473
    Stacey is my least favorite main Bond girl.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Shallow I can tolerate. Annoying I can't.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    bondjames wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I've grown to like Stacey more and more over the last several years, whereas I used to find her incredibly, incredibly annoying in nearly every scene she was in.
    Me too strangely. She's particularly annoying in the City Hall scene, but apart from that, she has some spark to her. Plucky.

    That scene is always the standout that cements how annoying she can be, with the incessant screaming once they're locked in the elevator.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I've grown to like Stacey more and more over the last several years, whereas I used to find her incredibly, incredibly annoying in nearly every scene she was in.
    Me too strangely. She's particularly annoying in the City Hall scene, but apart from that, she has some spark to her. Plucky.

    That scene is always the standout that cements how annoying she can be, with the incessant screaming once they're locked in the elevator.
    Precisely. That's the part that really grates and which I always remember when I think of the film. That and the rubbish firetruck sequence that follows it contribute to AVTAK's low ranking for me. Apart from that, I quite like Stacey. She's better than Dr. Jones imho.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    She's definitely better than Dr. Jones. I also like how she's so casually cold to Bond when they first meet at Zorin's estate - a mixture of sass and disinterest.
  • GetCarterGetCarter
    Posts: 386
    San Francisco proved to be a poor location.

    Even the fight on the GGB was botched.

    France, on the other hand, was just marvellous.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    She's definitely better than Dr. Jones. I also like how she's so casually cold to Bond when they first meet at Zorin's estate - a mixture of sass and disinterest.
    Yes, I noticed that the last time I watched the film and enjoyed it as well. Having said that, I don't know who could be impressed by "Mistaaa Sin Jin Smith".
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