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But let's face it, most of us, even if we are critical of certain Bond films, will always prefer them over others for the same reasons. And that's why for us, rather than for anything resembling objective reasons, they are "a cut above the rest".
The interesting thing for me about TLD and LTK is that each does things the other doesn't as well, and it's always very hard to settle on one in my head. TLD has for me, a great Bond girl that feels very real, while LTK can be a slog with Pam and Lupe's fighting, though I don't mind the former as much. TLD has an almost non-existent conclusion, whereas I think LTK has one of the best in the entire series. The main villains of TLD are pretty forgettable and underused, but Sanchez in LTK is again, one of the best. TLD is a more traditional and crafted Bond film, whereas LTK was clearly exploring other ways to tell a story for the high action period of the late 80s.
What one doesn't have, the other has in spades, and vice versa. I don't have this feeling with any other two movies to such a high degree.
I've never minded Della, but I would love to sit with Glen or Wilson and ask them what the subtext was with her and Bond, because it frankly creeps me out every time. The wedding is such a weird set of scenes to watch, as Bond openly kisses her and her him for a longer time than is ever acceptable, in front of Felix and all the guests no less. It's like Felix lets Bond take Della for a spin every now and again, a pleasantry exchanged from friend to friend. I'm sure other people are weirded out by this particular aspect of Della's character.
So perhaps Della was a quickie of Bond's at one time, and he randomly introduced her to Felix when things didn't work out between them, sparking their relationship and later engagement? I agree that they may have at least had sex.
I agree. A Three's Company actress in a Bond film?
She was not horrible, but Bain's thoughts are spot on.
That is completely projected by the actors, which along with her resume kinda adds to the lack of...I'm gonna use the word class, though she be a very nice person in real life.
Thats' what I mean about the Dalton Bonds. More sex and violence would have made the films more memorable. To popular culture, Dalton's films are almost as forgotten as OHMSS.
I hope so, OHMSS is a pretty special film in my book.
Dalton's films are respectable stories, but nowhere near Lazenby's film, for me.
@bondjames, this is actually one of the things I have an issue with when it comes to Dalton's films and at times, how incongruous Bond was written.
I've written a very comprehensive analysis of TLD that I haven't published anywhere yet, but in it I spend a lot of time discussing how the Bond that Dalton is playing isn't matched up by what the script thinks Bond is. Dalton's Bond has always felt more like a man on a mission to me who only romanced and indulged in women when his job was over. It's why I don't like the end of the PTS of TLD, where he purposefully shows up late to report on a very deadly mission that ended in the deaths of his colleagues to have sex with the woman, which doesn't match up to how he acts anywhere else. He seems far more responsible and principled than that; it's a Connery Bond move, but I don't think it's a Dalton Bond move.
Then, when Bond and Kara are in Vienna and they stop to get a room at a hotel, the manager at the front desk overtly winks to Bond and mentions if he should give him his regular room, implying that Bond always rolls around with a new woman on his arm to go nuts with. Again, this idea of Bond having a girl in every city or a series of interchangeable lovers doesn't match up with how Dalton's Bond actually acts. He seems far more repressed in that way, and doesn't seem the type to go out on the prowl for fresh tail.
This aspect of the film is one of many that shows me the writers still thought they were making a Moore Bond film, and they unconsciously or consciously gave Dalton's Bond characteristics that didn't match him at all with the goal of saying, "We know Roger isn't Bond anymore, but this Bond has lots of sex, so he's just like the guy you know!" This incongruity results in a sometimes tonally confused film, which is only further complicated by the bad one-liners that feed over into LTK too that just read Roger Moore. The movies at times are unsure of what they want to be as a result, and it hurts Dalton's overall Bond persona because he doesn't feel like this super horny guy, or the type to make light of death as he brings it about.
Agreed, @Major_Boothroyd
As you say, it was the last Bond film to have a full army on army attack at the climax. Something I've been missing from the Bond films ever since.
I think it's one of the best climax's of the Bond films. As well as the battle, we get the fight between Bond and Necros, that's exciting and suspenseful thanks to the ticking bomb and some incredibly dangerous stuntwork.
PTS: LTK; I like the premise of Felix never getting a day off, even on the date of his wedding, and how he and Bond work together to save the day. The pair really feel like friends here, and I love that Bond is ready to help in any way he can, regardless of the danger because he never wants to see another wedding go sour as his did. Bond truly becomes Felix's best man here, in more ways than one.
Title Track: LTK, easily. A-ha's song is near the bottom of the lot for me, whereas Knight's "Licence to Kill" is one I love unapologetically, along with Labelle's "If You Asked Me To" during the closing credits.
Title Credits: Both are horrid and unimaginative, so I will give neither points. Binder had a lot of lows, but this was the absolute bottom, back-to-back. It was his time to go.
Main Villain: LTK easily. I like Koskov and Whitaker as more real world villains (they're important to have now and again), but Davi is just amazing as Sanchez and the dynamic that explodes between him and Bond is a nice return to how Bond and his villains used to face off in the 60s films. There's honor and respect between them, but they'll still kill each other all the same.
Main Bond Girl: TLD. I will always defend Kara, warts and all, because she feels like a truly dimensional character and Maryam gives her great personality in a way no other Bond girl had since maybe Tracy. I like Pam too, but the love triangle between her, Lupe and Bond really sinks them and makes them feel so juvenile. Every time I see Pam run off like a child at the end, crying because Bond doesn't pay all his attention to her, I am certain he could do so much better. And he did, in just the previous film.
Henchman: LTK; Necros never scares me, Dario always does. The implication of what he did to Della is enough to make my blood boil from the start. Necros has a great talent for making literally anything a makeshift garrote, but beyond being another failed Grant clone, he's nothing special.
Plot: LTK; it's close, but the spy-thriller of TLD is outweighed by a Bond on the loose in LTK.
Dialogue: I'll give it to LTK, but only just. The movie feels more like it was actually written for Dalton, and Bond's confrontation and fallout with M, his initiation into Sanchez's crew and his interrogations of Pam and Lupe are electric.
Score: LTK; I really dig this one. Sorry, John.
Locations: TLD; if only because of the variety and the little glimpses of life we get of each.
Action: TIE; the Soviet army base raid of TLD and tanker finale of LTK are among the series' best. Do you seriously expect me to choose?
Humour: Neither handle it very well, but I'll go LTK if only because there's not as many moments where Dalton was forced to spout Moore-styled dialogue.
Cinematography: Neither reinvent the wheel, but I think I'll give it a TIE. TLD's Czech opening is better filmed and staged from an artistic perspective than a lot of LTK, giving the film really drama from a composition perspective, but LTK has a nicer and more rich palette, with a great use of wide shots that also convey an operatic drama of its own. Neither is an outright victor for me.
Benign Bizarre: TLD by default, as nothing in LTK is as weird as Whitaker's hall of "butchers." I love that character detail of Whitaker's, and it's what saves him from being forgotten.
Suspense: Both excel, but I'll go with LTK because I become really invested in Bond's subterfuge of Sanchez's group and still "feel it" when he's exposed.
Minor Characters: TLD; I don't think any character in LTK is as great as Pushkin by a long shot. Pushkin is a wonderful continuation of a Gogol-like Soviet who had depth and true personality. The character is a real achievement of the 80s that EON used to show that detente between the east and west was possible even after Gogol was out of the game. He is far and away one of my favorite Bond characters ever, and Davies gives him hyper-dimensionality.
Glamor: Both films really strip away glamor to go for a more rough adventure, but I'll give this to LTK, if only for the casino scene where Bond dons a tuxedo and joins in on a game of cards. Pam and Lupe also look positively ravishing in their dresses.
Bond Performance: I enjoy both, but LTK wins for me simply because I get to see more of what I think Dalton excelled at, and that's showing Bond on edge. When he finds Della and Felix bloodied up, I feel all his rage, and become terrified at what he may do. In his interrogations of Pam and Lupe he is unrelenting and cruel in order to do what needs to be done, and you can feel his contempt bleeding through his smiles as he tries to bait Sanchez into trusting him. A very layered performance, and I feel he's not as let down by the one-liners here as in TLD, though there are groaners. It feels far more like a Dalton film and Dalton performance, though he was never around long enough for the definition of a Dalton film to be properly defined.
At 13-6, LTK is the winner, and that's how it's always stacked in my head. TLD is more traditional, but I always respect Bond films that are willing to do something new with a bit of edge as LTK does by telling a very interesting story that puts Bond right in the thick of it.
Really, @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 ?????
That scene is one of the worst pieces of acting in the film. Dalton plays it well over the top. He's "DELLA!" is pretty unconvincing and then his big shrug as he see's the covered body of Felix is overacting to the point he's obviously trying way too hard.
And as for that stupid fake laugh he does at various points in the film..."huh huh huh huh huh..!"
Otherwise fine...LTK always beats TLD to me (but then again so does every other Bond film... :-? )
Yes, @LeonardPine, Really (!!!!!). I said I like both performances, so don't sharpen the pitchforks to raid my home too fast.
Taking the entire scope of the films, LTK wins for me. LTK has less of Dalton forcing a smile with Kara, spouting little jokes that don't work, etc. In LTK Bond is far too pissed off to do that sort of thing, and so he feels more like the Bond I expect him to be because of it. His conflicts with Sanchez, how he becomes a bad man to do good things come together to be a far better and more interesting performance to me than in TLD. He also moves and runs better in LTK, when he is downright embarrassing to watch at times in TLD, as in the pre-titles.
Personally I think if you took the first half of TLD and the latter part of LTK you'd have a great Dalton picture. TLD wins it for me, standalone, purely on the first hour - which to me is almost perfect Bond.
Exactly @RC7
It's like someone off camera was shouting directions at him. " Look sad Tim! Now look very sad Tim! Now you're very angry Tim!!!"
This is the sort of scene where Dan would excel. He'd sell the moment without uttering a word, but his face would say so much.
Trouble is his performance is all one note in LTK. He's pretty pissed off all the way through the silly revenge story. He also has a silly haircut and strange accent in the film.
He ran the full gamut of emotions in TLD and it was a very natural performance.
You can see that in SP when he is knocked to the floor by Blofeld's guard because he tried to stop Madeleine from seeing her father die on screen.
When he gets to his knees and looks at Blofeld, that look scares the hell out of me every time I see it...pure fury and hatred.
I agree with you matey !!!
Well this is a discussion forum, or would you rather people only wrote things you agree with...?
;)
I just expect a higher standard of criticism. If we're really going to argue, let's do it, but if picking on Dalton for a silly hair cut is all that's on the table, what's the point?
I posted my tally for me, because I thought it was interesting and fun, and all it invited was people implying that anyone that agreed was full of shit and then relegated further into a juvenile thrashing of Dalton for how he looked. I just expect more hard-thought academia than the kinds of comments you hear around the playground at a preschool.