Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,438
    Personally, I'm looking forward to what is ahead. I don't think there has ever been a bad first entry for a Bond actor. It'll be fine, trust me.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,009
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7, I thought I'd never love the series again after Brosnan stepped down, just for Craig to take over and blow my mind with his first two movies. Never say never!
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    peter wrote: »
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7, I am, suffering the same thoughts as you re: what DC has brought to the role, and what will come after... There was even a time that I prayed that they end his era with an ambiguous "death" a la YOLT the novel... and then just give the franchise a hibernation period where no new Bond would be introduced for a decade... I know that won't please most; in the end, it was just a fantasy I knew would never be realized.

    But that is how strongly I feel about DC and the gifts he brought to the franchise.

    He's certainly been the only one to ascend beyond the role, and become a serious partner in producing the films alongside EON. I know some don't like that, but because Dan was given so much decision making status and was heard when he spoke his mind, we got an era that was built for him, where he got to decide how his Bond would act, dress, etc. He feels dimensional because Dan was able to help build him that way. This is to say nothing of his staggering stunt work, which continues to blow my mind every time I watch the films. To know that it's him smashing through glass with a stunt partner or fighting on top of a moving train is simply mind-blowing to me, and it's unbelievable they allowed him to take the chance. He gave 120% every step, and made everyone else step up too when they saw how far he was willing to take it all.

    Dan has just been so open and willing to work in this role, doing serious overtime in every respect, that his commitment staggers me every time I study or watch the films. It's a large part of why I don't look forward to a day where I talk about Dan as Bond in the past tense, as everything after him has a lot to live up to from every perspective. His level of commitment to each aspect of the role, from dressing Bond to doing the stunts, will be a tough act to match. I am not envious of the men who have to perform such a feat.

    When I see Dan with Barbara and Michael out and about I don't think, "Oh, there's just business partners out for a dinner." They truly feel like a family, and you get the sense that they love and respect each other to the fullest degree. That's a very rare thing in show business, too rare. That's why I know the EON team will be sad to see Dan go, just as I will be. The difference is they had the privilege of watching him at work every day on set.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited April 2017 Posts: 23,883
    I was around but too young for the Moore/Dalton switchover to have any real consequence. I remember being surprised when I heard he was no longer Bond (when one is a kid I guess one can't really see that an actor is too old for the role) and knew nothing about Dalton. I really liked TLD the first time I saw it (much more than I do now actually), but thought even then that Dalton lacked some of Moore's class, charm and style. The gadget laden Aston was the highlight for me in those days. I really disliked LTK however, and wanted Dalton gone after seeing that film. My parents, who are big Bond fans and who have read all the novels (unlike me), didn't take to him either (Connery has always been their man).

    I was therefore ecstatic when the Dalton/Brosnan switchover finally took place (I had seen Brosnan in tv films like The Noble House and thought he had the capability to be a good Bond) and expected great things from the new man. Sadly, despite an excellent start in GE, he failed to deliver (in some parts because of him, and in many parts because of the producer's ineptitude post-Cubby).

    I was quite concerned, like others, when I learned that this somewhat odd looking (my view only of course), shorter relative unknown had been cast as Bond in 2005. However, I was open to him, because I knew that the Brosnan run had descended into parody (and truth be told I actually was hoping he would be replaced after TWINE).

    Craig of course delivered in the opening scene of CR, and went from strength to strength until the most recent outing (imho). However, I now feel that something is missing again, and I'm hoping for a return to more traditional Bond, with an actor who can bring the class, refinement and finesse back while still retaining the earthy qualities that Craig has brought to the character.

    So as I've said before, I can live with one more Craig outing (as long as it's a standalone, which is highly unlikely), but I'd prefer someone new because I think we're ready for it after SP.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited April 2017 Posts: 6,359
    A new approach is very simple to do.

    Do a proper gun-barrel.
    Do a proper Bond score.
    Cast an actor that actually looks like Bond.
    Have M at his desk, giving Bond a mission.
    Have Q handing gadgets to Bond while reprimanding him for destroying the last gadgets.
    Have Moneypenny flirt harmlessly with Bond in her office.

    Have an actual plot with a villain that has a clear mission.
    No personal non-sense with Bond.

    :lol:

    This is kind of my point, and from my perspective, what I really don't care to see exactly as described. The series has never grown out of what the 60s did, and that's always been the biggest issue. Instead of using the momentum of the 60s to explore, it stayed exactly the same from a structure standpoint. I'm sick of seeing the Q briefings play the same way, and for actors trying and failing to flirt the way Sean did with Lois.

    If anything, new ways need to be found to do these same things. Have M brief Bond, but do it in a different location or put a twist on it, like on briefing in the Brosnan era that happens inside M's personal car. Same idea, different approach. The Q missions could be mixed up by having him in the field facing different things, but I think those scenes are the hardest to reinvent as they always end up going the same way.

    A part of me actually misses the CR and QoS days where Q and Moneypenny weren't there, sorry to say. For once since the 60s the films were just telling the story they wanted, and didn't feel the need to tack on an unnecessary intro to every movie to have Q, M and Moneypenny do the same things over and over again. I wish the very different approach of CR and QoS stayed around for a lot longer, if not a whole era, because things actually felt fresh. That's not to say SF and SP fail for having the "team" back, but their presence really is just more of the same, and some new people don't like, simply because those character can only be a very certain way.

    Which is why I again wonder how long this same old approach will be allowed, because I'll already be getting very bored if it returns as per usual. I don't see the continued longevity some do.

    I wholeheartedly agree. I don't want to see films that are a retread of the formula. The stories of CR and the underrated QoS didn't require a Moneypenny or a Q, so they weren't there. That was so refreshing and radical.

    Then Mendes came in and decided to go all retro, not only reintroducing tired characters but giving them even more screen time. And then he ended SF in the same place as any '60s-'80s Bond, effectively erasing the progress made in CR and QoS.

    With SP, Mendes had some good ideas--the Mr. White death scene, Madeleine with her "wing down" in L'Americain--but these are surrounded by utter shite.

    The much more original CR was on the right track, but Mendes cocked it up with SF and worse with SP.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Now that we're over a year since the SPECTRE blu ray came out I can say that I watched it a shit ton when it came out but I haven't really revisited it in a long time because even though it's an okay film I never sit down and think " Oh god I really want to watch SPECTRE right now I can't wait"
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    My favorite Bond films are usually my least watched.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    SPECTRE is what Skyfall should have been. Fun to watch.

    While I viewed it 13 times alone at the cinema, I have only watched it another 5 times on Blu-ray and the last time was October 8th, 2016.

    Because every time I watch it I think...oh Dear...now it can only go downwards no matter which one I pop in next.
    Same applies to OHMSS which is my Christmas/Special Occasion film.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Birdleson wrote: »
    As a fan that grew up with them from just about the start, I can say there was a definite feeling of change after MR. With FYEO Adam was gone, we had the first sub for Barry that didn't even try to capture that Barry Bond sound and, what I remember most, there was no comparable fanfare among the public and the media. That is where it began; Bond films were being treated as just any other franchise film. That special electricity and coverage on all of the talk shows, the characters that we knew as a culture, all ended. It's also where Broccoli decided to start cutting costs dramatically.

    All the 60s and 70s Bonds are still more or less iconic. What came after just isn t. I am not talking about quality here. Also, Bernard Lee left a huge void after him.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    I liked Robert Brown. I like him better than Lee actually. If that's not controversial...

    Probably because he was "my" first M, but even without the nostalgia factor, Robert Brown was a worthy successor in my humble opinion.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I liked Robert Brown. I like him better than Lee actually. If that's not controversial...

    .

    It certainly is, but I too liked him. Second best for me, and that is good enough. We will never have another Lee. He was straight out of the pages of Fleming.
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    I feel that the last "classic" Bondfilm was TMWTGG. After that the films became more like events that reflected back on the tropes. TMWTGG felt like the last, undiluted and pure Bondfilm. It had the adventurous and bizarre side that later was replaced by action and epicness in the later films.
    It also signifies the last film by Saltzman whom also had a stamp on the films.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I liked Robert Brown. I like him better than Lee actually. If that's not controversial...

    Probably because he was "my" first M, but even without the nostalgia factor, Robert Brown was a worthy successor in my humble opinion.

    Shockingly, I heavily disrespected Hargreaves/Brown's M. In two consecutive films he showed such a lack of good sense and pragmatic thought, and was a complete ass to Bond at every turn on top of it. In one big moment in TLD and LTK each I wish I could race through the screen and punch him, sometimes like Bond looks like he wants to.

    I just tell myself Brown's take was written to be a bad leader to contrast with the perfect Lee M, who for all his faults never treated Bond as if he wasn't his equal, and who always cared about his agent's perspective and worries about a mission. Brown's M only wanted "yes" men, and it's clear to see why Bond tires of his "rules" by LTK, with signs of his exhaustion present even in TLD.
  • Posts: 7,653
    The Mission Impossible, Star Wars and the Fats & furious franchises are in far better shape and better hands than the 007 franchise is currently.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,588
    Here goes. I'm expecting to take some lumps over these.

    1. Ursula Andress is too masculine-looking for my tastes. I've never considered her "sexy."
    2. Dr. No, as a whole, feels like a test run. It's a mediocre film, until the final act.
    3. I've never understood the appeal of Honor Blackman, either: see #1. Same thing. But to her credit: she has aged very well.
    4. I'm sorry: nothing worse than seeing James Bond in a kilt in OHMSS. In fact, much of the wardrobe in the film is awful.
    5. Lazenby was not a good Bond and OHMSS suffered because of it. Thank God for Barry's score and Wally Bogner's ski sequences. They helped save the film.
    6. DAF is so bad that it's good. I can't say the same for MR and FYEO.
    7. MR is by far the worst film in the series; and it's not just a bad Bond film. It's a bad film, period. If EON wanted to make camp, they needed John Watters or Roger Corman to direct it. Actually, Corman could have taken this material and done it right.
    8. FYEO: Winner: worst scored Bond film. Bill Conti was out of his depths here. The music is so bad during the ski chase that it needs to be muted.
    9. OP: Best post-title sequence. Gotta love a clown being chased through the woods.
    10. In retrospect, LTK is better than TLD. Benicio del Toro's presence in the film might have something to do with that.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,077
    SaintMark wrote: »
    The Mission Impossible, Star Wars and the Fats & furious franchises are in far better shape and better hands than the 007 franchise is currently.

    I'm assuming that when the Fast & Furious franchise reaches 24 films, Vin Diesel and co will be racing their muscle cars around the rings of Saturn.....
  • Posts: 11,189
    I gave up on Fast and Furious after number 2.

    First one I enjoyed but 2 Fast was dull.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,077
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I gave up on Fast and Furious after number 2.

    First one I enjoyed but 2 Fast was dull.

    You're lucky. I unfortunately saw the last one.... :-S
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,009
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I gave up on Fast and Furious after number 2.

    First one I enjoyed but 2 Fast was dull.

    You really should sit through the following few movies, the franchise takes a completely different turn and becomes a different beast entirely. Now they're grandiose heist films, of a sort.
  • Posts: 11,189
    But the original was kind of a heist film.

    I think of them as a bit like the Saw movies. The first one was enjoyable but they soon become a bit of a cash-cow.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,904
    SaintMark wrote: »
    The Mission Impossible, Star Wars and the Fats & furious franchises are in far better shape and better hands than the 007 franchise is currently.
    I saw that Vin Diesel diss.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,009
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    But the original was kind of a heist film.

    I think of them as a bit like the Saw movies. The first one was enjoyable but they soon become a bit of a cash-cow.

    I suppose at the heart of them, they all are driven by a major heist, or brutal revenge, but the films have become something completely different from the first three. I'm not crazy about the fourth installment but it's definitely when the series started to become the massive juggernaut it is now. It's worth sifting through those earlier installments to see what the newer titles have in store.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    But the original was kind of a heist film.

    I think of them as a bit like the Saw movies. The first one was enjoyable but they soon become a bit of a cash-cow.

    I suppose at the heart of them, they all are driven by a major heist, or brutal revenge, but the films have become something completely different from the first three. I'm not crazy about the fourth installment but it's definitely when the series started to become the massive juggernaut it is now. It's worth sifting through those earlier installments to see what the newer titles have in store.

    Ok well I may just do that.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,714
    A new approach is very simple to do.

    Do a proper gun-barrel.
    Do a proper Bond score.
    Cast an actor that actually looks like Bond.
    Have M at his desk, giving Bond a mission.
    Have Q handing gadgets to Bond while reprimanding him for destroying the last gadgets.
    Have Moneypenny flirt harmlessly with Bond in her office.

    Have an actual plot with a villain that has a clear mission.
    No personal non-sense with Bond.

    That would be nice to have again, at least a couple times. TLD is literally the last Bond film not to have a heavy dose of personal stuff going on. Of course, it was fine in LTK, given that it was Felix, and had it's roots in Fleming. And I also love the Craig movies.

    But it's really enough at this point...

    Bond's BFF maimed by a shark
    Shoehorned 00 agent goes bad
    Villain's wife is Bond's ex
    M's BFF's daughter is the baddie
    M and Bond have a big fight, another MI6 employee is a baddie
    Bond falls desperately in love
    Bond wants revenge for the lady he fell in love with
    Another 00 agent goes bad
    Bond's sort-of stepbrother is the baddie

    The series, though I've loved the last ten years of it, does seem to revolve around the personal problems of Bond and M....I'd love to see M hand Bond a file and say "007, these people who neither of us has ever met, and who have no connections to us at all, are up to bad stuff. Go to it." :-D

  • Posts: 15,220
    @ProfJoeButcher I think this is a trend that has been going on in many, many more franchises and for much longer. Batman 89 has the (future) Joker as the murderer of Bruce Wayne's parents for instance.
  • Posts: 7,653
    SaintMark wrote: »
    The Mission Impossible, Star Wars and the Fats & furious franchises are in far better shape and better hands than the 007 franchise is currently.

    I'm assuming that when the Fast & Furious franchise reaches 24 films, Vin Diesel and co will be racing their muscle cars around the rings of Saturn.....

    As it is the current EON show runners have had Eight movies as well, it seems that they are out of steam as well. I prefer muscle cars around the rings of Saturn over a halfbrother who runs SPECTRE. ;)

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I've never seen a Vin Diesel film, or a film with The Rock in it, nor their descendants (Seagal and Van Damme), and I don't think that I ever will. The couple of MISSION IMPOSSIBLE films that I did see were horrendous, and I find the Bourne films completely forgettable. It depresses me that such is the pool Bond is expected now expected to swim in now. What the Hell happened?

    Well, the playing field got bigger, is all. I agree though that Bond doesn't have competition worthy of it, even now. Nobody lines up to see an MI or Bourne film like they're heading to church on Easter, for example. The MI films are fun and the Bourne films portray an interesting, if entirely cynical view of the world, but neither have the verve, style and life of Bond, often injected with a splash of the vintage and all the nostalgia you could ask for. These movies are their own genre, and play by their own rules. Most importantly, Bond feels like an actual man (especially with Craig), whereas Hunt and Bourne are very much action men that things happen to, and because of that they do feel very hollow or false in their attempted depth. They certainly aren't going to be cultural icons, or make people want to be them.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I've never seen a Vin Diesel film, or a film with The Rock in it, nor their descendants (Seagal and Van Damme), and I don't think that I ever will. The couple of MISSION IMPOSSIBLE films that I did see were horrendous, and I find the Bourne films completely forgettable. It depresses me that such is the pool Bond is expected now expected to swim in now. What the Hell happened?

    100%
    The rock is entertaining as a purely comedic actor , vin diesel is a shit actor. I could not be payed to watch a fast and the furious film again. The mission impossible films are all crap pretty forgettable and boring. The first Bourne film is okay but the rest are either the exact same but worse or down right uninteresting. Just reminds me that even die Another Day is leaps better than any of those
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,164
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I've never seen a Vin Diesel film, or a film with The Rock in it, nor their descendants (Seagal and Van Damme), and I don't think that I ever will. The couple of MISSION IMPOSSIBLE films that I did see were horrendous, and I find the Bourne films completely forgettable. It depresses me that such is the pool Bond is expected now expected to swim in now. What the Hell happened?

    It's a new world...

    With new enemies...

    And new threats....

    But you can still depend...

    On one man.
    bond-sequence-11092015.gif

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    That GIF nearly killed my computer in loading it up, but boy was it glorious.
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