Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited May 2017 Posts: 7,120
    I don't think though that many Bond films have overly relies on their gadgets. I'd say: YOLT, TSWLM, MR, OP, AVTAK, TND, TWINE, DAD. In short, Lewis Gilbert's Bond films, late Rog and late Pierce.

    Other films have had them occasionally but they were never too much into our faces in my opinion.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Yeah, knowing that Bond at times has to rely on some bit of luck or some ingenuity from Q makes him more human. Bond is the best in the business, but he should never feel literally unstoppable.
    A trick they used in LALD that I remember being particularly novel is that the magnetic watch actually failed to get Bond out of his crocodile conundrum. It was useful later on of course but it was interesting to see his gadget prove ineffective for once.

    There was something similar in GF, when the homer device was crushed along with Solo.

    Was it crushed? It's hard to see how something that small could get crushed like that. I always thought the gaint magnet made the homer ineffective.

    Could be. The point is it was destroyed.
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,889
    I think that the main reason people don't enjoy TND's title song is because k.d lang's wasn't used instead.

    I certainly prefer Surrender but the one they used is decent enough. Arnold is even thankful that his song made it into the movie (well, the end credits). No reason to bash the song because of a missed opportunity imo. Both songs sound bondian to me.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I am no big fan of either, but prefer Tomorrow Never Dies to Surrender.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,032
    I'm also not among the Sheryl Crow bashers, but do think that k.d. lang's song would have been a contender for the best Bond theme ever. Certainly top three or so.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I think that the main reason people don't enjoy TND's title song is because k.d lang's wasn't used instead.

    I certainly prefer Surrender but the one they used is decent enough. Arnold is even thankful that his song made it into the movie (well, the end credits). No reason to bash the song because of a missed opportunity imo. Both songs sound bondian to me.

    Crow's song is far and away my least favorite Bond song, so I think anything would've been better. It's like they recorded four minutes of someone mumbling lyrics and put Arnold's music over it. Probably the most lifeless of the Bond songs.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2017 Posts: 23,883
    I'm the opposite and admittedly in the minority. I far prefer Crow's effort to Lang's, which has the whiff of inferior predictable pastiche to me. Crow's has more of a lounge pace to it which I prefer and I find it more original, although her vocals aren't the best by a long shot.
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,889
    I think that the main reason people don't enjoy TND's title song is because k.d lang's wasn't used instead.

    I certainly prefer Surrender but the one they used is decent enough. Arnold is even thankful that his song made it into the movie (well, the end credits). No reason to bash the song because of a missed opportunity imo. Both songs sound bondian to me.

    Crow's song is far and away my least favorite Bond song, so I think anything would've been better. It's like they recorded four minutes of someone mumbling lyrics and put Arnold's music over it. Probably the most lifeless of the Bond songs.

    Personally I'd put it somewhere in the middle of the title-song rankings but it's way more lively than All Time High though. :)
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    Did anyone notice the dated sound effects by hey used in the action scenes? When they are interrogating Bond at Carvers party, one of the goons says "Mr Carver would like to know why..." And then- THWACK!! -
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I think most know what song I find the most cringe inducing among the 24. Hint: it's quite recent. Did it impact my enthusiasm for the film and could it have psychologically affected my viewing experience? Possibly. The jury is still out. A song can certainly have a positive or negative impact on first viewing, although with time it's not an issue.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I think that the main reason people don't enjoy TND's title song is because k.d lang's wasn't used instead.

    I certainly prefer Surrender but the one they used is decent enough. Arnold is even thankful that his song made it into the movie (well, the end credits). No reason to bash the song because of a missed opportunity imo. Both songs sound bondian to me.

    Crow's song is far and away my least favorite Bond song, so I think anything would've been better. It's like they recorded four minutes of someone mumbling lyrics and put Arnold's music over it. Probably the most lifeless of the Bond songs.

    Personally I'd put it somewhere in the middle of the title-song rankings but it's way more lively than All Time High though. :)

    All Time High has an actual vocal high, though, something to reach in the music itself that crescendoes. With Crow, I hear her voice registering as it would if she sang with a bucket on her head. Basically, drowned out sound.
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,889
    Did anyone notice the dated sound effects by hey used in the action scenes? When they are interrogating Bond at Carvers party, one of the goons says "Mr Carver would like to know why..." And then- THWACK!! -

    Definitely. The sound effects in TND were sub-par. I heard that typical window-getting-broken sound effect (usually includes a cat screeching). Then during the finale it sounded as if Stamper was punching a bag of meat and not Bond...
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    Did anyone notice the dated sound effects by hey used in the action scenes? When they are interrogating Bond at Carvers party, one of the goons says "Mr Carver would like to know why..." And then- THWACK!! -

    Definitely. The sound effects in TND were sub-par. I heard that typical window-getting-broken sound effect (usually includes a cat screeching). Then during the finale it sounded as if Stamper was punching a bag of meat and not Bond...

    Yeah, weird. That one moment in the interrogation really stands out for me. The goon stops mid-sentence, almost in anticipation of this cartoonish THWACK! Nothing like the sound of an actual kick connecting.

    That whole scene is pretty embarrassing, with Bond rolling about on the floor - not very cinematic. Something else I noticed is that quite a lot of the henchmen in this film are really old! It reminded me of AVTAK, actually.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    Did anyone notice the dated sound effects by hey used in the action scenes? When they are interrogating Bond at Carvers party, one of the goons says "Mr Carver would like to know why..." And then- THWACK!! -

    Those sound effects help make TND's action scenes (particularly the hand-to-hand combat) unenjoyable and some of the most forgettable in the series. All the fighting in the recording studio/printing press area is generic as can be.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Did anyone notice the dated sound effects by hey used in the action scenes? When they are interrogating Bond at Carvers party, one of the goons says "Mr Carver would like to know why..." And then- THWACK!! -

    Those sound effects help make TND's action scenes (particularly the hand-to-hand combat) unenjoyable and some of the most forgettable in the series. All the fighting in the recording studio/printing press area is generic as can be.
    I agree on the printing press fight being very boring and uninteresting, particularly in comparison to the visceral one in GE, but I think that's more on account of the choreography. The sound effects didn't bother me all that much. Generally I like exaggerated sound effects in fights.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    edited May 2017 Posts: 45,489
    I like the exaggerated sound effects in the OHMSS fights. They are like the KPOWs and BLAMs in comic books.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    I like the exaggerated sound effects in the OHMSS fights. They are like the KPOWs and BLAMs in comic books.

    Now I don't mind those at all, they sound a little quieter and less exaggerated to me.
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,889
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I like the exaggerated sound effects in the OHMSS fights. They are like the KPOWs and BLAMs in comic books.

    Now I don't mind those at all, they sound a little quieter and less exaggerated to me.

    We had this discussion ages ago :). I simply dislike exaggerated sounds effects, as it cheapens the movie experience quite a bit. The ones in TND and OHMSS are inexcusable imho.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I like the exaggerated sound effects in the OHMSS fights. They are like the KPOWs and BLAMs in comic books.

    Now I don't mind those at all, they sound a little quieter and less exaggerated to me.

    We had this discussion ages ago :). I simply dislike exaggerated sounds effects, as it cheapens the movie experience quite a bit. The ones in TND and OHMSS are inexcusable imho.

    Not a fan of the slide whistle, then, are we? Don't worry, you're amongst friends in that regard.
  • Posts: 15,117
    A trick they used in LALD that I remember being particularly novel is that the magnetic watch actually failed to get Bond out of his crocodile conundrum. It was useful later on of course but it was interesting to see his gadget prove ineffective for once.

    There was something similar in GF, when the homer device was crushed along with Solo.

    You can even say this of the Aston Martin: for all its in the end it failed Bond completely.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Ludovico wrote: »
    A trick they used in LALD that I remember being particularly novel is that the magnetic watch actually failed to get Bond out of his crocodile conundrum. It was useful later on of course but it was interesting to see his gadget prove ineffective for once.

    There was something similar in GF, when the homer device was crushed along with Solo.

    You can even say this of the Aston Martin: for all its in the end it failed Bond completely.

    I wouldn't count it as a total mark against the DB5. In all areas of it gadgets it responded perfectly and took out at least one or more enemies. Bond simply got put in a tough position, where he was completely boxed in. He had to drive it in the wall before the collision smashed him up worse.

    Bond's cars usually end up worse for wear anyway, whether they're blown up, crushed, riddled with bullets or crammed in shop windows. Sometimes Bond errs, but I feel the cars support him well.
  • Posts: 15,117
    Yes but he nevertheless got captured in spite of the gadgets.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,032
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Yes but he nevertheless got captured in spite of the gadgets.
    I find gadgets that might not work or at least fail to save Bond from something, in spite of fulfilling their function, far more interesting than gadgets that are sure to save him. If it were different, you might as well watch a superhero movie, invincibility and all.

    Nothing is worse than gadgets handed over in the beginning that are completely outlandish, with no apparent purpose in real life, and later on in the movie, lo and behold, it just so happens that the statistically insignificant occasion for them becoming useful arises. That case is just bad writing.

    In turn, so is the case of totally useless and wasted gadgets. Say, the Z3, which is described as having all the latest equipment including Stinger missiles, and all it is used for is driving to the place where they are to take over the plane from Jack Wade. Product placement may be ok, but this is stupid product placement that does not even have a real function for the movie.


  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    With GE, my understanding is that BMW paid for that product placement and the budget wasn't there to incorporate any gadgetry from the car.
  • Posts: 15,117
    I like when gadgets fail too. And when villains have some for good measure. I didn't mind the car not being used in GE, like I liked how Fiona's intervention in TB prevented Bond to kill Lippe himself.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I like when gadgets fail too. And when villains have some for good measure. I didn't mind the car not being used in GE, like I liked how Fiona's intervention in TB prevented Bond to kill Lippe himself.
    Unpredictability is always best. Like when the Lotus blew up in FYEO. Anyone seeing that film after TSWLM may have expected gadgets galore but it was not to be and a lowly Citreon was the saviour.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    As cool as the Lotus was, it was a great moment when the burglar alarm went off.
  • Posts: 1,917
    I actually like both the Crow and Lange songs. They complement each other, kind of like TB and Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang could've done if they'd include both in TB.

    Also, in reference to Bond's LALD Rolex, it's interesting that they bother to mention in the early stage when M is chastising Bond for wasting taxpayer money that Bond mentions the watch can deflect the path of a bullet at long range, but we never see it.

    But then we get a cutting gadget we don't know about, which feels like a bit of a cheat in that it makes it too easy for Bond at that point.

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Controversial opinion: the gadgets are not essential part of Bond.

    I agree with that. Aside from the FRWL briefcase (which was jazzed up for the film) and the cane gun in CR, there were no gadgets in Fleming. Too magical and convenient; I'd like to see them done away with permanently. I wish that they had never become part of the cinematic Bond's world.

    This isn't where I thought you'd stand on this issue. Very interesting.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,792
    BT3366 wrote: »
    But then we get a cutting gadget we don't know about, which feels like a bit of a cheat in that it makes it too easy for Bond at that point.
    The watch saw in LIVE AND LET DIE was actually breaking EON's own rules. From the start they chose to show viewers the gadgets up front to let the suspense build not from surprise, but through waiting for HOW the elements would be employed in the story.

    The buzz saw works as a gee-whiz reveal, but it's good they didn't wear out that sort of thing.
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