Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • edited April 2012 Posts: 1,052
    Going back to Dr NO, it is a bit slow but I don't think it matters because the plot is good and the it has a good feel to it, whereas to me the pacing of Thunderball really drags.
  • Posts: 1,082
    Going back to Dr NO, it is a bit slow but I don't think it matters because the plot is good and the it has a good feel to it.

    Agreed. DN is good and is not boring IMO. Connery is carrying that movie on his shoulders, and luckily doesn't disappoint. Great villain also.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,713
    Last weekend I watched DN - and for the first time in 7 years I didn't reach the end of the Bond outing I was watching.... I switched the film off half way through - it was just too slow.
  • Posts: 1,082
    For some reason, I don't find DN as slow as either OHMSS or FRWL (atleast their first halves). And TB drags a little, but I don't thinks it's boring at all. TB is a fine Bond film, apart from the sped up boat chase at the end.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,713
    On the contrary - FRWL and TB have very good pace. The films just go by so fast, it's a joy to watch them. OHMSS may not have a good pace in certain sections... but the film is just so beautiful and epic, it's easy to forgive the slowness in parts.
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 12,837
    echo wrote:
    Controversial opinion: GE, although directed much better, is as much a pastiche of "Bond's greatest hits" as DAD.

    I fail to see how.

    Most Bond cliches are featured in the first 15 minutes GE.... but that doesn't take away the greatness of the film, mind.

    I still fail to see how. Other than the obvious cliches that every pre-Craig film has, what did GE have?

    Even CR had the DB5.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited April 2012 Posts: 24,159
    On the contrary - FRWL and TB have very good pace. The films just go by so fast, it's a joy to watch them. OHMSS may not have a good pace in certain sections... but the film is just so beautiful and epic, it's easy to forgive the slowness in parts.

    The old comment about TB being tedious in certain places makes me wonder if people actually pay attention to music and photography. Those two elements alone make both TB and OHMSS truly wonderful Bonds for me.

  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,713
    DarthDimi wrote:
    On the contrary - FRWL and TB have very good pace. The films just go by so fast, it's a joy to watch them. OHMSS may not have a good pace in certain sections... but the film is just so beautiful and epic, it's easy to forgive the slowness in parts.

    The old comment about TB being tedious in certain places makes me wonder if people actually pay attention to music and photography. Those two elements alone make both TB and OHMSS truly wonderful Bonds for me.

    Exactly Dimi ! OHMSS and TB have gorgeous locations, sets, music and cinematography. Even if a certain section is boring, these 2 films are still a feast for the eyes and ears.
  • Posts: 11,425
    DarthDimi wrote:
    On the contrary - FRWL and TB have very good pace. The films just go by so fast, it's a joy to watch them. OHMSS may not have a good pace in certain sections... but the film is just so beautiful and epic, it's easy to forgive the slowness in parts.

    The old comment about TB being tedious in certain places makes me wonder if people actually pay attention to music and photography. Those two elements alone make both TB and OHMSS truly wonderful Bonds for me.

    Agree on OHMSS but TB for me was always a disappointment. I think the jet-pack sequence gets it off to a bad, absurd, start and it never fully recovers, despite good elements.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    AVTAK also features Big Ron from Eastenders (an extra that used to own a stall on the market) hahahahahaha

    Good call sir. I've always recognised that fat bloke from the fight in the warehouse (surely the weakest scrap in all of Bondom - with none of the protaganists under 50) but couldnt put my finger on it till now.
    For a long time I thought it was Bill Maynard from 70s sitcom The Gaffer.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    edited April 2012 Posts: 7,854
    echo wrote:
    Controversial opinion: GE, although directed much better, is as much a pastiche of "Bond's greatest hits" as DAD.

    I fail to see how.

    Most Bond cliches are featured in the first 15 minutes GE.... but that doesn't take away the greatness of the film, mind.

    I still fail to see how. Other than the obvious cliches that every pre-Craig film has, what did GE have?

    I'm sorry, are you positive or negative on GE ?

    I love GE, but I can't see these cliches from previous films (other than the obvious ones) in the first 15 minutes that you're mentioning. Can you please list them.
    echo wrote:
    Controversial opinion: GE, although directed much better, is as much a pastiche of "Bond's greatest hits" as DAD.

    I fail to see how.

    Most Bond cliches are featured in the first 15 minutes GE.... but that doesn't take away the greatness of the film, mind.

    I still fail to see how. Other than the obvious cliches that every pre-Craig film has, what did GE have?

    Even CR had the DB5.

    That's not a "cliche" per se, as I see it. Especially since it's a normal DB5 in CR, and the one in GE is supposedly the same one he's used for his ageless decades.
  • Posts: 12,837
    That's not a "cliche" per se, as I see it. Especially since it's a normal DB5 in CR, and the one in GE is supposedly the same one he's used for his ageless decades.

    I see the DB5, even if it's a different one, as sort of a Bond cliche. I don't mind really mind when it's used the way it was in GE and CR though (I kind of don't want to see it as Bonds main car again though, which it looks like it will be in Skyfall).
  • The DB5 is a cynical ploy taken by the producers to ensure the general public that a new Bond is going to be as good as Goldfinger! IMO, seeing the DB5 in a Bond film (post TB i.e. GE, TND, CR) shows that the producers know they are on to a loser with a film. Roger Moore films didn't need it, neither did Timothy Dalton because they could carry the film without needing to pluck on the critics and casual film fans nostalgia for what they see as a good 60's spy film. The DB5 belongs to Goldfinger. Skyfall and future Bond films, get your own car!
  • Posts: 1,497
    The DB5 is a cynical ploy taken by the producers to ensure the general public that a new Bond is going to be as good as Goldfinger! IMO, seeing the DB5 in a Bond film (post TB i.e. GE, TND, CR) shows that the producers know they are on to a loser with a film. Roger Moore films didn't need it, neither did Timothy Dalton because they could carry the film without needing to pluck on the critics and casual film fans nostalgia for what they see as a good 60's spy film. The DB5 belongs to Goldfinger. Skyfall and future Bond films, get your own car!

    I agree. I liked how through the years, the Bond films would feature a different car. I love the DBS in OHMSS. I was fine with Ford in DAF because it was set in the States. The Lotus was cool for the time. Even the BMW made sense for 90's BOND. I hate to see Bond rely too much on nostalgia.

    That being said, those shots with Bond and M by DB5 in Scotland do look really nice.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,713
    I actually am quite happy the Skyfall doesn't have any current Aston Martin's - they all look the same since the late 1990's, and frankly it was getting appalling that DAD, CR and QOS featured the same car.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Give him a Lotus or Bristol
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 4,813
    I actually am quite happy the Skyfall doesn't have any current Aston Martin's - they all look the same since the late 1990's, and frankly it was getting appalling that DAD, CR and QOS featured the same car.

    You make a very good point! DAD, CR and QOS all technically had different Aston's but you'd never know it! They have looked the same for the last 10 damn years!

    Maybe we should bring back the Lotus (google a current one-- they look awesome)
    or something entirely new?

    *edit- oops I posted mine before I read yours, @Getafix-- good call on the Lotus! Great minds think alike! ;)
  • The pics of Bond with M again highlight the Dench factor.

    Don't remember the great Bernard Lee standing next to a car, promoting his role. Everything is related to Dench....she must have something on the producers?! Lol
  • Posts: 4,813
    Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression that Dench is the most famous actor (before Bond) to play M, right? I guess they feel they have to get their money's worth.
    Of course, if the rumors of Ralph Fiennes being the new M are true, we can probably expect the same debatable 'over-use' of M in the future
  • Posts: 11,425
    The pics of Bond with M again highlight the Dench factor.

    Don't remember the great Bernard Lee standing next to a car, promoting his role. Everything is related to Dench....she must have something on the producers?! Lol

    I know - it looks stupid. Wish they hadn't developed this oh so original M story for SF.

  • Posts: 11,425
    Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression that Dench is the most famous actor (before Bond) to play M, right? I guess they feel they have to get their money's worth.
    Of course, if the rumors of Ralph Fiennes being the new M are true, we can probably expect the same debatable 'over-use' of M in the future

    I hadn't thought of that, but it is a little worrying. Bernard Lee was a well known character actor but not a 'big name' like Fiennes.
  • The rate it's going, there will be a Judi Dench/M spin off.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    I actually am quite happy the Skyfall doesn't have any current Aston Martin's - they all look the same since the late 1990's, and frankly it was getting appalling that DAD, CR and QOS featured the same car.

    I love Aston Martins, but I, too, am getting a little bored of them. But, just so long as he doesn't have a BMW or a VW, I don't care what he drives. It could be a unicycle, I wouldn't care.
  • Posts: 12,837
    I actually am quite happy the Skyfall doesn't have any current Aston Martin's - they all look the same since the late 1990's, and frankly it was getting appalling that DAD, CR and QOS featured the same car.

    Agreed on the current Aston Martins, but I'd have liked it better if they'd switched to a different make of car instead of using the DB5 AGAIN. I don't mind it making cameos but I don't like it being the main car.
  • Posts: 11,425
    I had a heated argument with an entire gang of posters over whether it was acceptable for Bond's car to be German (i.e. a BMW). I am not anti-German, but it strikes me as plain simple that Bond should primarily drive a vaguely British car. Many disagreed!
  • Posts: 6,601
    The DB5 is a cynical ploy taken by the producers to ensure the general public that a new Bond is going to be as good as Goldfinger! IMO, seeing the DB5 in a Bond film (post TB i.e. GE, TND, CR) shows that the producers know they are on to a loser with a film. Roger Moore films didn't need it, neither did Timothy Dalton because they could carry the film without needing to pluck on the critics and casual film fans nostalgia for what they see as a good 60's spy film. The DB5 belongs to Goldfinger. Skyfall and future Bond films, get your own car!

    The DB5 is everthing but a cynical ploy - and certainly Dalton would have needed it more, IF what you said, was the case.

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Germanlady wrote:
    The DB5 is a cynical ploy taken by the producers to ensure the general public that a new Bond is going to be as good as Goldfinger! IMO, seeing the DB5 in a Bond film (post TB i.e. GE, TND, CR) shows that the producers know they are on to a loser with a film. Roger Moore films didn't need it, neither did Timothy Dalton because they could carry the film without needing to pluck on the critics and casual film fans nostalgia for what they see as a good 60's spy film. The DB5 belongs to Goldfinger. Skyfall and future Bond films, get your own car!

    The DB5 is everthing but a cynical ploy - and certainly Dalton would have needed it more, IF what you said, was the case.
    Duh, that's just a stupid statement. The DB5 is part of Bond, not mutually exclusive.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    The DB5 is a cynical ploy taken by the producers to ensure the general public that a new Bond is going to be as good as Goldfinger! IMO, seeing the DB5 in a Bond film (post TB i.e. GE, TND, CR) shows that the producers know they are on to a loser with a film. Roger Moore films didn't need it, neither did Timothy Dalton because they could carry the film without needing to pluck on the critics and casual film fans nostalgia for what they see as a good 60's spy film. The DB5 belongs to Goldfinger. Skyfall and future Bond films, get your own car!

    Very well said. I'm getting pretty tired of the whole 'Bond car' thing now.

    When you look at the films up until GE, the only time we had a 'Bond car' was GF, TB, OHMSS, TSWLM, FYEO and TLD (I'm not counting the Bentley in FRWL).
    Thats 6 out of 16 films - or approx 37% of the time if you will.

    And thats not even mentioning the fact that in OHMSS and FYEO the car was just briefly featured and did not have any gadgets (if you discount the car bomb/alarm from FYEO).
    In all of Bond history the only gadget car films up until the cliche ridden Brosnan era were GF, TB (very briefly), TSWLM and TLD.

    Since GE we have had a 'Bond car' feature in every film, half of them with gadgets and if you also factor in the fact that in GE, TND and CR we also had the DB5 needlessly shoehorned in that equals 9 in 6 films - or 150% of the time.

    I remember being excited in the trailer for TLD that Bond had a) a new Aston and b) it was a Q gadget car because we hadnt seen that since TSWLM. Now its just been flogged to death and I dont want to see another one for at least the next 4 or 5 films. Lets have some more inventive chases like the 2CV or the tank rather than just showcasing the latest Aston and filling it with tired cliches such as rockets and oil slicks.

    Of course it wont happen as for the same reason we have Bond drinking Heineken we also have to see him drive the latest product from whichever car company has stumped up the most. Hence the shockingly embarassing Ford Mondeo or Focus or whatever the f*ck it was advert halfway through CR.

    Also the DB5 is beginning to represent other cliches such as shaken not stirred that were over done in the Brozza era and take the series into accusatons of parody. I thought we had got past all that with the Craig era so why do we have to childishly keep reaching for the comfort blanket of the DB5?
  • Posts: 12,837
    Germanlady wrote:
    The DB5 is a cynical ploy taken by the producers to ensure the general public that a new Bond is going to be as good as Goldfinger! IMO, seeing the DB5 in a Bond film (post TB i.e. GE, TND, CR) shows that the producers know they are on to a loser with a film. Roger Moore films didn't need it, neither did Timothy Dalton because they could carry the film without needing to pluck on the critics and casual film fans nostalgia for what they see as a good 60's spy film. The DB5 belongs to Goldfinger. Skyfall and future Bond films, get your own car!

    The DB5 is everthing but a cynical ploy - and certainly Dalton would have needed it more, IF what you said, was the case.

    Why exactly would Dalton have needed it more?
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    Germanlady wrote:
    The DB5 is a cynical ploy taken by the producers to ensure the general public that a new Bond is going to be as good as Goldfinger! IMO, seeing the DB5 in a Bond film (post TB i.e. GE, TND, CR) shows that the producers know they are on to a loser with a film. Roger Moore films didn't need it, neither did Timothy Dalton because they could carry the film without needing to pluck on the critics and casual film fans nostalgia for what they see as a good 60's spy film. The DB5 belongs to Goldfinger. Skyfall and future Bond films, get your own car!

    The DB5 is everthing but a cynical ploy - and certainly Dalton would have needed it more, IF what you said, was the case.

    Why exactly would Dalton have needed it more?

    Think about it. His Box Office takings were hardly the best.

    It was planned to appear in his third film, Bond 17, for the final time anyway.
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