Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • Posts: 19,339
    Unlike characters like Tiffany Case,she was supposed to be a liason for MI6 in Hong Kong.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    bondjames wrote: »
    Living up to his name.

    Hehe! :0
  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    Posts: 1,756
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I will forever stand by QoS being a criminally underrated movie with a lot of depth and artistry to it that's easily overlooked by quick criticisms of 'Quantum of Bourne', fast editing, and too much action.

    Then again, I'm one of the very few on here who ranks it as my favorite of Craig's, albeit only slightly above CR, for me.

    Same here. Quantum is truly an underrated gem. Casino Royale is arguably Craig's best film but Craig was his best in QoS, imo.

  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    edited June 2017 Posts: 1,756
    bondjames wrote: »
    People are a bit harsh on Britt around these parts. I find her quite endearing.

    Her character is perfectly fine to me because she was purposely "annoying".
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,120
    Add me to the Goodnight fan club as well. Love the girls in TMWTGG.
  • Posts: 15,117
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Unlike characters like Tiffany Case,she was supposed to be a liason for MI6 in Hong Kong.

    I always understood that she was a glorified secretary. Would have made more sense had she been station number 2 and her commanding officer had been killed (by Scaramanga?) so she had been promoted by default. But you have incompetent/out of their depth people in every organization. So maybe they just had a real ditz in Hong Kong.
  • DAF is a secret masterpiece.

    Well not anymore now that you've gone and told everyone!
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,255
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    Britt may not be stupid, but her character definitely is. Same with quite a few other Bond bimboes.

    That may be, but she is good-hearted. Also she is probably one of my favourite characters of Fleming's literary work.
    I always imagine after the last scene that Mary will invite Bond to the villa in the Blue Mountains. And of course that Bond accepts ;) I'm a hopeless romantic.

    Well they didn't trqanslate the book- Mary to the film version well I think. Not that Britt couldn't have played her, I think she just looks the part perfectly. And I sure want to be hard on her, er, no, don't want to be, but the role could've been better written for sure.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Agreed.

    She was a little bit TOO stupid and clumsy.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    RC7 wrote: »

    They [early scenes in CR] also ooze Fleming. A little indulgence and time spent building atmosphere. Nothing about Fleming was streamlined. He went to great effort to coax the reader in, without it being over as quickly as possible as some seem to require.

    Definitely in narrative style, but Craig's Bond, much as I love him, is probably the furthest from Fleming's there's ever been.

  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited June 2017 Posts: 8,395
    RC7 wrote: »

    They [early scenes in CR] also ooze Fleming. A little indulgence and time spent building atmosphere. Nothing about Fleming was streamlined. He went to great effort to coax the reader in, without it being over as quickly as possible as some seem to require.

    Definitely in narrative style, but Craig's Bond, much as I love him, is probably the furthest from Fleming's there's ever been.

    Definitely.
  • edited June 2017 Posts: 11,189
    Could never stand Mary Goodnight. Not in the slightest bit funny to me. I even heard from the man himself that he wasn't a fan of Britt.

    Tbh I don't think any of Moore's Bond girls were that great. Either as characters or actresses or (occasionally) both. The best two were probably Solataire and Melina.
  • Posts: 1,162
    RC7 wrote: »

    They [early scenes in CR] also ooze Fleming. A little indulgence and time spent building atmosphere. Nothing about Fleming was streamlined. He went to great effort to coax the reader in, without it being over as quickly as possible as some seem to require.

    Definitely in narrative style, but Craig's Bond, much as I love him, is probably the furthest from Fleming's there's ever been.

    I guess you can call that fact. Still, you should prepare for a storm coming.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I think if Craig was just a tad more refined and "gentlemanly" he'd have been fairly close to Fleming's Bond.
  • RC7RC7
    edited June 2017 Posts: 10,512
    RC7 wrote: »

    They [early scenes in CR] also ooze Fleming. A little indulgence and time spent building atmosphere. Nothing about Fleming was streamlined. He went to great effort to coax the reader in, without it being over as quickly as possible as some seem to require.

    Definitely in narrative style, but Craig's Bond, much as I love him, is probably the furthest from Fleming's there's ever been.

    In looks, yes. In character, I don't think I can agree. While he's never been the most three dimensional character the books were loaded with insight into Bond's psyche. Craig emotes, subtly, in a way that allows you to see something is going on under the hood. It's something Lazenby, for example, lacked (understandably) and something Roger and Pierce rarely delivered. It's what I've always liked about his portrayal - you can see the cogs turning.

    There's also a ruthlessness and a sense of danger that he brings, something that no one else really has to that degree. Dalton tried to do the battered and bruised Bond (psychologically and physically) but I never really felt he quite nailed it. The determination to be harder edged pushed it towards theatricality. From Craig's first scene in the bathroom, I thought, yes, no one has captured Bond quite like this before. That continues throughout CR and his ability to switch from the battered man of action in the stairwell to the insouciant gambler in the casino is superb. It's seamless and I buy him as a very worthy Flemingian Bond, in character, if not always in looks.

    I'm sure I'm in for a kicking as it's slate Craig month.
  • Posts: 19,339
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »

    They [early scenes in CR] also ooze Fleming. A little indulgence and time spent building atmosphere. Nothing about Fleming was streamlined. He went to great effort to coax the reader in, without it being over as quickly as possible as some seem to require.

    Definitely in narrative style, but Craig's Bond, much as I love him, is probably the furthest from Fleming's there's ever been.

    In looks, yes. In character, I don't think I can agree. While he's never been the most three dimensional character the books were loaded with insight into Bond's psyche. Craig emotes, subtly, in a way that allows you to see something is going on under the hood. It's something Lazenby, for example, lacked (understandably) and something Roger and Pierce rarely delivered. It's what I've always liked about his portrayal - you can see the cogs turning.

    There's also a ruthlessness and a sense of danger that he brings, something that no one else really has to that degree. Dalton tried to do the battered and bruised Bond (psychologically and physically) but I never really felt he quite nailed it. The determination to be harder edged pushed it towards theatricality. From Craig's first scene in the bathroom, I thought, yes, no one has captured Bond quite like this before. That continues throughout CR and his ability to switch from the battered man of action in the stairwell to the insouciant gambler in the casino is superb. It's seamless and I buy him as a very worthy Flemingian Bond, in character, if not always in looks.

    I'm sure I'm in for a kicking as it's slate Craig month.

    Not from me ,I totally agree ,and cant understand why he is being attacked so consistently like this.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I think with Craig you can see him getting into a violent struggle then necking a straight drink to calm his nerves. That's why he works.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @RC7 : perfectly stated.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    I guess people just have a different opinion.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    this-sucks.jpg?fit=694%2C448
  • Posts: 19,339
    this-sucks.jpg?fit=694%2C448

    Got it in one ,good Dr ,perfect picture of all this mess.
  • edited June 2017 Posts: 1,162
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »

    They [early scenes in CR] also ooze Fleming. A little indulgence and time spent building atmosphere. Nothing about Fleming was streamlined. He went to great effort to coax the reader in, without it being over as quickly as possible as some seem to require.

    Definitely in narrative style, but Craig's Bond, much as I love him, is probably the furthest from Fleming's there's ever been.

    In looks, yes. In character, I don't think I can agree. While he's never been the most three dimensional character the books were loaded with insight into Bond's psyche. Craig emotes, subtly, in a way that allows you to see something is going on under the hood. It's something Lazenby, for example, lacked (understandably) and something Roger and Pierce rarely delivered. It's what I've always liked about his portrayal - you can see the cogs turning.

    There's also a ruthlessness and a sense of danger that he brings, something that no one else really has to that degree. Dalton tried to do the battered and bruised Bond (psychologically and physically) but I never really felt he quite nailed it. The determination to be harder edged pushed it towards theatricality. From Craig's first scene in the bathroom, I thought, yes, no one has captured Bond quite like this before. That continues throughout CR and his ability to switch from the battered man of action in the stairwell to the insouciant gambler in the casino is superb. It's seamless and I buy him as a very worthy Flemingian Bond, in character, if not always in looks.

    I'm sure I'm in for a kicking as it's slate Craig month.

    So could you please point out for me a line
    or page in any of the books that is mirrored by Craig's behavior and actions in CR (apart from the turmoil in his face when he drowns Fisher that is, which I see as an adaptation of Bond's emotional struggles when killing the double agent in Stockholm during the war.)
    Lord knows I tried to think of one but I failed. Let's see you if you do better. Good luck!
    Also, to my mind Bond was never more impressively ruthless and dangerous than in Dr. No. Contrary to the sociopathic ruthlessness he displays in SF.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »

    They [early scenes in CR] also ooze Fleming. A little indulgence and time spent building atmosphere. Nothing about Fleming was streamlined. He went to great effort to coax the reader in, without it being over as quickly as possible as some seem to require.

    Definitely in narrative style, but Craig's Bond, much as I love him, is probably the furthest from Fleming's there's ever been.

    In looks, yes. In character, I don't think I can agree. While he's never been the most three dimensional character the books were loaded with insight into Bond's psyche. Craig emotes, subtly, in a way that allows you to see something is going on under the hood. It's something Lazenby, for example, lacked (understandably) and something Roger and Pierce rarely delivered. It's what I've always liked about his portrayal - you can see the cogs turning.

    There's also a ruthlessness and a sense of danger that he brings, something that no one else really has to that degree. Dalton tried to do the battered and bruised Bond (psychologically and physically) but I never really felt he quite nailed it. The determination to be harder edged pushed it towards theatricality. From Craig's first scene in the bathroom, I thought, yes, no one has captured Bond quite like this before. That continues throughout CR and his ability to switch from the battered man of action in the stairwell to the insouciant gambler in the casino is superb. It's seamless and I buy him as a very worthy Flemingian Bond, in character, if not always in looks.

    I'm sure I'm in for a kicking as it's slate Craig month.

    So could you please point out for me a line
    or page in any of the books that is mirrored by Craig's behavior and actions in CR (apart from the turmoil in his face when he drowns Fisher that is, which I see as an adaptation of Bond's emotional struggles when killing the double agent in Stockholm during the war.)
    Lord knows I tried to think of one but I failed. Let's see you if you do better. Good luck!
    Also, to my mind Bond was never more impressively ruthless and dangerous than in Dr. No. Contrary to the sociopathic ruthlessness he displays in SF.

    The penultimate page springs to mind - Bond's immediate grief, followed by his equally immediate ability to put it to one side or 'boxroom' it. Likewise his ability to go someplace else during the torture sequence. Anyhow it's not about pinpointing lines, it's about actors delivering portrayals that draw on the feel and mood of the character across Fleming's complete ouvre. It's similar to when people think you have to copy Fleming wholesale for it to be Fleming. You don't. It's about imbuing the work with a Flemingian feel. I think Craig does a good job of it. If you don't that's cool, I'm not going to convince you of something you don't see.
  • edited June 2017 Posts: 1,162
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »

    They [early scenes in CR] also ooze Fleming. A little indulgence and time spent building atmosphere. Nothing about Fleming was streamlined. He went to great effort to coax the reader in, without it being over as quickly as possible as some seem to require.

    Definitely in narrative style, but Craig's Bond, much as I love him, is probably the furthest from Fleming's there's ever been.

    In looks, yes. In character, I don't think I can agree. While he's never been the most three dimensional character the books were loaded with insight into Bond's psyche. Craig emotes, subtly, in a way that allows you to see something is going on under the hood. It's something Lazenby, for example, lacked (understandably) and something Roger and Pierce rarely delivered. It's what I've always liked about his portrayal - you can see the cogs turning.

    There's also a ruthlessness and a sense of danger that he brings, something that no one else really has to that degree. Dalton tried to do the battered and bruised Bond (psychologically and physically) but I never really felt he quite nailed it. The determination to be harder edged pushed it towards theatricality. From Craig's first scene in the bathroom, I thought, yes, no one has captured Bond quite like this before. That continues throughout CR and his ability to switch from the battered man of action in the stairwell to the insouciant gambler in the casino is superb. It's seamless and I buy him as a very worthy Flemingian Bond, in character, if not always in looks.

    I'm sure I'm in for a kicking as it's slate Craig month.

    So could you please point out for me a line
    or page in any of the books that is mirrored by Craig's behavior and actions in CR (apart from the turmoil in his face when he drowns Fisher that is, which I see as an adaptation of Bond's emotional struggles when killing the double agent in Stockholm during the war.)
    Lord knows I tried to think of one but I failed. Let's see you if you do better. Good luck!
    Also, to my mind Bond was never more impressively ruthless and dangerous than in Dr. No. Contrary to the sociopathic ruthlessness he displays in SF.

    The penultimate page springs to mind - Bond's immediate grief, followed by his equally immediate ability to put it to one side or 'boxroom' it. Likewise his ability to go someplace else during the torture sequence. Anyhow it's not about pinpointing lines, it's about actors delivering portrayals that draw on the feel and mood of the character across Fleming's complete ouvre. It's similar to when people think you have to copy Fleming wholesale for it to be Fleming. You don't. It's about imbuing the work with a Flemingian feel. I think Craig does a good job of it. If you don't that's cool, I'm not going to convince you of something you don't see.

    Actually he doesn't go to a place somewhere else, no he even jokes with LeChiffre, but that's beside the point. The point is Fleming's Bond's character in the books and to my mind there is nothing in Craig's portrayal that mirrors him. Bond always followed orders, never doubted his superiors especially M. Also, Bond in the novels is actually extremely scrupulous, almost to the point of being too soft. When he is sent as a kind of private favor by M after the murderers of the Havelock's he dwells all the way how he rejects this mission. And that's about guys who killed an old couple just because of profit. Also, compare the Bond, who muses over real professionalism in CR and how he's disgusted by amateurs and Craig's behavior when shooting down an embassy just because of one single bomb maker or blowing his own cover, when checking in at the hotel ( which by the way doesn't give him any advantage, no matter what he tells to Vesper afterwards). Can you get any less professional as a secret agent? I don't think so! I also don't happen to think that Fleming imagined his Bond ever to eat with open mouth and talk at the same time after his fifth birthday.
    Bond came from upper middle class. He didn't need anyone to tell him about class, style and manners. Also no one who presented him a custom fit tuxedo, because she got the feeling he doesn't know how to dress himself in style. By the way, a joke in itself, since he was impeccable dressed when she met him in the train. She even mentions it! It was simply a forced " now he gets his bat cape, aehh Tux" moment.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Like I said, I'm not claiming Craig's Bond is Fleming's to the letter, I'm simply saying his portrayal adds a level of emotional depth that often tallies with the way I perceive the literary Bond. The first half of CR is at odds with that, naturally, but I don't think it takes away from what his Bond becomes and continues to be. Fleming's Bond didn't dispatch people with the flippancy of Moore, or slaughter goons like Brosnan. There's enough in Craig's performances for me that steer him towards Fleming. You obviously feel differently, which is fine.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,120
    @noSolaceleft Good points! I agree.

    I find Lazenby and Dalton to be the closest to Fleming's literary character. I once even wrote an essay about that.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    one of the best love scenes in the films: Bond seducing Lucia-- just amazing...
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @Birdleson -- you saw that picture too??
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    Birdleson wrote: »
    @peter , I'm very impressed. There's a lot more to you than I had expected.

    I agree that's a good one too. Many layers of deception there.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @Mendes4Lyfe ... ????
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