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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,438
    peter wrote: »
    @Mendes4Lyfe ... ????

    Diamonds are Forever. It's a quote. Peter Franks.

    "Oh peter, I'm very impressed..."
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    I got that part-- and, yes, DAF is a hidden treasure-- but the layers of deception confuses me, since (if you saw the pics I'm talking about) there are no layers...
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,714
    RC7 wrote: »

    In looks, yes. In character, I don't think I can agree. While he's never been the most three dimensional character the books were loaded with insight into Bond's psyche. Craig emotes, subtly, in a way that allows you to see something is going on under the hood. It's something Lazenby, for example, lacked (understandably) and something Roger and Pierce rarely delivered. It's what I've always liked about his portrayal - you can see the cogs turning.

    There's also a ruthlessness and a sense of danger that he brings, something that no one else really has to that degree. Dalton tried to do the battered and bruised Bond (psychologically and physically) but I never really felt he quite nailed it. The determination to be harder edged pushed it towards theatricality. From Craig's first scene in the bathroom, I thought, yes, no one has captured Bond quite like this before. That continues throughout CR and his ability to switch from the battered man of action in the stairwell to the insouciant gambler in the casino is superb. It's seamless and I buy him as a very worthy Flemingian Bond, in character, if not always in looks.

    I'm sure I'm in for a kicking as it's slate Craig month.

    I'm not slating Craig! He's my third favorite, and my second is Moore, so it's not that I think being true to Fleming is the key to making a good Bond.

    But Fleming's Bond was never a reckless, impulsive hothead, didn't enjoy killing, and would not break into M's flat or shoot up an embassy. When Vesper dies, Book Bond is as angry with himself as anything, and doesn't really brood about it into the following books. When he says "The bitch is dead", it's not bravado, as in the film, he just means it.

    I love Craig, and would be happy to see him do two more movies. But don't mistake "gritty" for "Flemingesque".

  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Since when does Craig's Bond enjoy killing???

    Being true to Fleming is the key to making a good Bond. Hence, why I prefer Connery and Craig's interpretation of the role.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited June 2017 Posts: 7,198
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Since when does Craig's Bond enjoy killing???

    Being true to Fleming is the key to making a good Bond. Hence, why I prefer Connery and Craig's interpretation of the role.

    Exactly why I like Lazenby and Dalton.

    Connery and Brosnan I like for their suaveness.

    Moore for his likeability.

    I like Craig too because he sometimes succeeds in some of the aspects that I mentioned above but he doesn't quite surpass his predecessors in any of those in my opinion.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited June 2017 Posts: 11,189
    delete. Wrong thread.
  • noSolaceleftnoSolaceleft
    Posts: 1,162
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    @noSolaceleft Good points! I agree.

    I find Lazenby and Dalton to be the closest to Fleming's literary character. I once even wrote an essay about that.

    I absolutely agree, especially when it comes to Dalton. Funny thing is I happen to think that's one of the reasons why he didn't resonated with audiences. The bond we all came to love (witty, dark humored, ruthless and always ready for sexual intercourse ) was mainly developed by the genius of Maibaum.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Fleming said that he never intended Bond to be particularly likeable.

    I wonder whether the public liked him anyway - before Dr. No came out.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    noSolaceleft wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    @noSolaceleft Good points! I agree.

    I find Lazenby and Dalton to be the closest to Fleming's literary character. I once even wrote an essay about that.

    I absolutely agree, especially when it comes to Dalton. Funny thing is I happen to think that's one of the reasons why he didn't resonated with audiences. The bond we all came to love (witty, dark humored, ruthless and always ready for sexual intercourse ) was mainly developed by the genius of Maibaum.
    That's the one I particularly like. The mediums are different and I'm quite happy that I'm more of a film fan. I think it allows me to have a more open perspective on the filmic interpretations. As an example, I've seen folks complain about Hanks's version of Langdon in the Dan Brown adaptations, but having not read the books I find him perfectly fine and endearing.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Birdleson wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Fleming said that he never intended Bond to be particularly likeable.

    Connery has pretty much stated the same, as well. I wish more people on here would understand and accept that, rather than get all prickly about Bond's attitude towards women and various ethnic and racial groups.

    Correct. What else, do we want the villains to be law-abiding and friendly?
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Despite that though, i don't ever remember Bond hitting a woman in any of the books.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Birdleson wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Fleming said that he never intended Bond to be particularly likeable.

    Connery has pretty much stated the same, as well. I wish more people on here would understand and accept that, rather than get all prickly about Bond's attitude towards women and various ethnic and racial groups.

    Chegro's spring to mind!
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Since when does Craig's Bond enjoy killing???

    Being true to Fleming is the key to making a good Bond. Hence, why I prefer Connery and Craig's interpretation of the role.

    Exactly why I like Lazenby and Dalton.

    Connery and Brosnan I like for their suaveness.

    Moore for his likeability.

    I like Craig too because he sometimes succeeds in some of the aspects that I mentioned above but he doesn't quite surpass his predecessors in any of those in my opinion.

    Yep. Both great too....Dalton and Lazenby certainly made Flemingesque films too.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,198
    People complain about Rog's age in his later outings but I think he looks in better shape in OP than he does in FYEO.

    The terrible ski outfits in Eyes definitely won't do ayone any favours. In OP he's a lot better dressed which make him look younger.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    He seems a bit disengaged during periods of FYEO (the only film where I feel this way about his Bond performance), whereas in OP he's 100% present. I'm not sure if that creates the perception of relative youth in the latter film. In terms of his physical appearance, I think he looks quite a bit younger and fitter in FYEO, but the Cortina winter air seemed to bring out the wrinkles (especially in his first meeting with Ferrara).
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,599
    When I watch FYEO I'm usually baffled by the facial difference in Moore. He looks younger in the Spain scenes and like mentioned much older in Cortina. Even in the PTS it looks like he ages and I guess (de-ages) for lack of a better term in different scenes
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    FYEO was when his balls-chin started to show.

  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,218
    bondjames wrote: »
    He seems a bit disengaged during periods of FYEO (the only film where I feel this way about his Bond performance), whereas in OP he's 100% present. I'm not sure if that creates the perception of relative youth in the latter film. In terms of his physical appearance, I think he looks quite a bit younger and fitter in FYEO, but the Cortina winter air seemed to bring out the wrinkles (especially in his first meeting with Ferrara).

    I think Roger Moore was less comfortable overall with the approach of FYEO and it shows. It's also a movie where Bond "feels" older: he's seen as a widower, he's a mentor to Melina, a protector to Bibbi, etc.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    very good points @Ludovico , especially about Bond feeling older.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited June 2017 Posts: 11,189
    I like that approach in the film though. Regardless of what Moore himself thought, I prefer that sort of "wiser" character to the playboy he was in the previous film.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,218
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I like that approach in the film though. Regardless of what Moore himself thought, I prefer that sort of "wiser" character to the playboy he was in the previous film.

    I prefer it too. In fact I prefer Moore when he was finding his feet as Bond or when he was less comfortable in the role for whatever reason.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Ludovico wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I like that approach in the film though. Regardless of what Moore himself thought, I prefer that sort of "wiser" character to the playboy he was in the previous film.

    I prefer it too. In fact I prefer Moore when he was finding his feet as Bond or when he was less comfortable in the role for whatever reason.

    Just one of the many reasons why the FYEO ascent to St Cyrils is a highlight. He and we are all afraid for his life there. Silly, but true.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Yes, fair points @Ludovico. I always thought that Glen being a first time Bond director may have had something to do with it too, but nearly everyone is more sober as well, so it's definitely a deliberate choice.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    I think that while Moore always delivered at least a good performance, they were a bit inconsistent.

    I think they did a great job with Moore in LALD, establishing him as a fresh new Bond, but in TMWTGG they seemed to turn him into a subpar Connery. In TSWLM he nailed it, building on what he bought to the table in LALD to deliver one of the most confident and self assured Bond performances in general (his best performance imo). In MR I thought he seemed a bit too smug at times though, maybe the excessive script encouraged him to take the playboy approach a bit too far. I liked how he felt more mature in FYEO but he did seem a bit uncomfortable in some moments imo. Then in OP we got a perfect balance, he felt more seasoned but was having fun again; it felt like a more grizzled version of the guy we saw in TSWLM. Then we got AVTAK where he did a good job but it felt like the script was pretending he was ten years younger than he was.

    So for me his best performances are in his best films: TSWLM, OP and LALD (in that order).
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,890
    The entirety of the Miami Airport scene in CR is a tad better than the Madagascar sequence. I prefer the rate of escalation in the airport compared to the instant (yet brilliant) disorder created by the gunshot at the snake pit which starts it all off...

    At the airport I feel the build up and ending is more satisfying to watch. Basically there's more investment placed for the audience, due to the fact that the goals of both individuals are more easy to follow imo. Here we know the price if Bond fails, unlike during the Madagascar sequence.
  • BT3366BT3366
    Posts: 1,926
    I've always found it somewhat ironic that with a supposedly older Bond in FYEO also turns out to be possibly the most physically taxing mission. The guy goes from hanging out helicopters to being turned over in cars to being chased down ski slopes and in gunfights to being abused underwater and dragged over reefs to being booted off cliff sides and falling through windows.

    Supposedly the focus on stunts was a reaction to the effects and excess of MR.

    I think the Madagascar and Miami scenes in CR complement each other quite well. One is an out-and-out reckless piece of action that gets the film proper off to a roaring start while the other has a more measured feel about it and more at stake, as BondAficionado points out.

    And with all that action uploaded at that part of the movie it doesn't detract from the more drama-focused sections at the casino to come.

  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    controversial opinion: I have never liked how they costumed Moore-- even today, when i am more forgiving of the films, I still can't stand the bell bottoms and penny-loafer looking shoes, nor the cut of his bulky jackets...

    The 70s weren't exactly a bastion of classy clothes, BUT, look at Conners in 1970/71 in DAF: grey suit, check; classic tux, check; even in white pants and pink tie...

    I also couldn't stand the "down-to-earth" costumes of Dalton-- at least the bell bottoms were gone, but his clothing choices look as if he went to a No Frills sale, closed his eyes, and grabbed whatever off the rack...

    My favorite dressed Bonds:
    Connery
    Craig (even with the Tom Ford suits)


    Brosnan



    Dalton/Moore
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I don t think many will disagree with that.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Moore wore his suits (including the safaris and the double breasteds) very well, so I don't have a problem with them. He always looked suave and stylish, despite succumbing to 70's fashion.

    I personally liked him best in the early two films (fitted by Cyril Castle of Saville Row). Angelo Vitucci of Angelo Roma took over for TSWLM/MR, and these are my second favourites, despite the look being very much of the 70's and a bit more European with the boxier shoulders (as I said, I think Moore pulled it off well). Douglas Hayward took over with a more subdued look for Moore's last 3 films, and I liked these the least (while he went back to the softer shoulders, I found the buttons too low on the jackets).

    I'm more averse to this constricted 'bustin out' look that's around these days.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,999
    While Dalton's Bond tended to dress more smart casual, straight off the top of my head, I can picture him in two suits. A really nice blue 3 piece when he is handed the job of assassinating Pushkin, and another suit, before that at safe house. I don't mind Dalton's Bond being more of a smart casual dresser, much the opposite actually, it's one of the things I like most about his Bond.
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