Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2017 Posts: 23,883
    @NoSolaceleft, it's unimaginable to consider what he must have gone through back then. To think he had to put up with all of that media and fan pressure without getting his due certainly was unfair in my view. I've always maintained that the other Bonds are just visitors. The series exists in perpetuity due to Connery. Everyone did their part but he was absolutely essential to the 'phenomenon', and it is that which gave it the 'legs' to continue for multi-decades and become an enduring legend.
    --
    Also, last year I saw an interview with Karin Dor and she relates how he was disgusted with the press and all the other hyper around him. She said he was the most lovely and professional partner to have and he,his wife and she often made out in Tokyo together and that day and night the hotel lobby was full of Japanese girls having little overnight backs with them, waiting that James Bond came to take them up to his room. Can anyone of you imagine a scene like this nowadays?
    I guess it's very hard for us to re-imagine all this hype/hysteria back at those times around Bond/Connery and it seems he was really very tired of it.
    Fascinating scenario. I can imagine this happens these days with rock stars and the like (perhaps that punk Beiber too), but probably not with too many actors.
  • Posts: 684
    BT3366 wrote: »
    I do like her chemistry with Judi Dench, though. Their TND byplay is enjoyable.
    @BT3366 Yes, good point. Her chemistry with Dench is another aspect I quite enjoy. In fact I think Dench, Kitchen, Bond, Salmon, the whole MI6 team of the Brosnan era, gelled really well. I'm glad to an extent that they abandoned them for CR, but I would not at all have been opposed to gradually reintroducing those same actors starting with QOS when they brought back Tanner.

    (I'm also just realizing that during the Brosnan years Llewelyn never had a scene with anyone outside of Brosnan/Cleese, which is a shame. Would've been nice for a scene where Dench tells MP to send in the Quartermaster.)
    Still, I also don't want Moneypenny the action hero either. I'd have preferred the character stay on the sidelines.
    Agreed. That goes for the whole MI6 gang for me.
  • Posts: 15,125
    bondjames wrote: »
    How do we know Connery couldn't have pulled it off? He wasn't asked to. He looked pretty concerned when running from Fiona with a bullet in his leg in TB. Surely he could have had brought a bit more of that to the table if asked to?

    I also think he would have done it well if asked and willing to do it. My controversial opinion: Sean Connery at the time could have been the only one able to sell to the public Bond falling in love and getting married. Moore was a convincing grieving widower but only accepted in the role.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    How do we know Connery couldn't have pulled it off? He wasn't asked to. He looked pretty concerned when running from Fiona with a bullet in his leg in TB. Surely he could have had brought a bit more of that to the table if asked to?

    I also think he would have done it well if asked and willing to do it. My controversial opinion: Sean Connery at the time could have been the only one able to sell to the public Bond falling in love and getting married. Moore was a convincing grieving widower but only accepted in the role.
    I don't think that's too controversial. He had been the only Bond for seven years by that time, and so if he had done OHMSS it would have been quite impactful for the audience.

    Personally, I think any of Craig, Moore, Connery or Dalton could have pulled it off just as well as Lazenby. I shudder to think of Brosnan grieving behind the wheel of the Aston (overacting galore most likely) based on his attempts at emotion in TWINE.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited September 2017 Posts: 9,020
    bondjames wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    How do we know Connery couldn't have pulled it off? He wasn't asked to. He looked pretty concerned when running from Fiona with a bullet in his leg in TB. Surely he could have had brought a bit more of that to the table if asked to?

    I also think he would have done it well if asked and willing to do it. My controversial opinion: Sean Connery at the time could have been the only one able to sell to the public Bond falling in love and getting married. Moore was a convincing grieving widower but only accepted in the role.
    I don't think that's too controversial. He had been the only Bond for seven years by that time, and so if he had done OHMSS it would have been quite impactful for the audience.

    Personally, I think any of Craig, Moore, Connery or Dalton could have pulled it off just as well as Lazenby. I shudder to think of Brosnan grieving behind the wheel of the Aston (overacting galore most likely) based on his attempts at emotion in TWINE.

    You obviously haven't seen this guy's attempt at grief...

    full.jpg

    Brosnan would do fine with showing emotion subtly. He has done it enough in his Bond films.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    How do we know Connery couldn't have pulled it off? He wasn't asked to. He looked pretty concerned when running from Fiona with a bullet in his leg in TB. Surely he could have had brought a bit more of that to the table if asked to?

    I also think he would have done it well if asked and willing to do it. My controversial opinion: Sean Connery at the time could have been the only one able to sell to the public Bond falling in love and getting married. Moore was a convincing grieving widower but only accepted in the role.
    I don't think that's too controversial. He had been the only Bond for seven years by that time, and so if he had done OHMSS it would have been quite impactful for the audience.

    Personally, I think any of Craig, Moore, Connery or Dalton could have pulled it off just as well as Lazenby. I shudder to think of Brosnan grieving behind the wheel of the Aston (overacting galore most likely) based on his attempts at emotion in TWINE.

    You obviously haven't seen this guy's attempt at grief...

    https://a2-images.myspacecdn.com/images04/11/0305eda20a704246ac1a5c729673d60b/full.jpg

    Brosnan would do fine with showing emotion subtly. He has done it enough in his Bond films.
    Yes indeed. I'm afraid it's those prior attempts that have caused me to eliminate him from consideration.

    http://i.imgur.com/qUoXrMa.jpg
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    Not Brosnan's proudest moment as Bond, but showing any Bond actor in mid-sentence would do none of them any favours in this debate.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    jake24 wrote: »
    Not Brosnan's proudest moment as Bond, but showing any Bond actor in mid-sentence would do none of them any favours in this debate.

    +1
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    IsCnqeY.jpg
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    bondjames wrote: »
    IsCnqeY.jpg
    That moment was never meant to be subtle, but a powerful moment of sheer anger and sadness, which Brosnan portrayed quite well, IMO.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @Murdock, I love that shot of Dalton! He always had the right look to me-- perhaps the best... it's his OTT staginess that drags down his era for me (although Davi is utter class as a villain).
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    I admire Brozzer and his efforts, but emotional subtlety was not his strong suit.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    peter wrote: »
    I admire Brozzer and his efforts, but emotional subtlety was not his strong suit.
    That's putting it mildly @peter, and I unfortunately must agree.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    IsCnqeY.jpg
    "Are we there yet? I really need ro go!"

  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited September 2017 Posts: 9,020
    I can produce a dozen such ridiculous pics of Craig in Bond films. Brosnan was 100% Bond and had fun being Bond which clearly transforms on the screen.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited September 2017 Posts: 9,020
    jake24 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    IsCnqeY.jpg
    That moment was never meant to be subtle, but a powerful moment of sheer anger and sadness, which Brosnan portrayed quite well, IMO.

    Brosnan had a wide range of acting in his Bond films. Craig has about five different facial expressions, his favourite being looking exhausted from running/fighting/climbing...so I guess Brosnan's acting skills look like overacting to some.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @BondJasonBond006, it's fine. Brozzer was a perfect Bond in every way to YOU. Just because one criticizes the man doesn't mean they don't enjoy him. Just because one likes Moore over Brozzer, or Craig over him, or Laz or Conners; it isn't with the intent to diminish the man in your eyes. It's just personal preference.

    I agree with @bondjames, the man was overwrought in his emotional scenes, and personally, I don't think he had that type of range-- as has been seen in some of his other films as well.

    I would have liked to see Brozzer play Bond more closer to the role he had in THE FOURTH PROTOCOL. The man was ice in that. He was deadly. Unfortunately, I didn't get this same sense when he played Bond. I didn't find him physically threatening, or deadly. I hated the way he threw a punch.

    I mean, I liked PB enough, but not enough to return to his films over and over (in fact, I find his era the toughest to watch outside of GE).

    But in the end, it's just my opinion and it means nothing other than that. You love the Brozzer, and all the more power to you.

    And if you think DC's coming back just for money, then, once again, your opinion. However, i think we got a hint of the man's motivations when he said to Colbert he wanted to go out on a high-- which would indicate he knows SP wasn't that film (or, I'd bet my house, and I don't bet, he would have retired after that film). Now, whether he's successful in doing this, we will have to wait for the film. But I think it's safe to assume he has more money in the bank than he knows what to do with.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited September 2017 Posts: 9,020
    I would watch the epic fight between Brosnan and Bean in GE and then judge again.
    Everything people here claim Craig does better, Brosnan has done at least as good, maybe not that often as Craig, as Brosnan's Bond was clearly portrayed differently which was the producers good judgment.
    As for deadly, well Brosnan had at least half a dozen ice cold deadly kills in his four films.
    I don't buy the "wasn't deadly enough" argument at all. Also physically neither Dalton or Moore were very threatening. Craig is way too physical in his films, a little less would have done him favours. But that's the producers's decisions.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    peter wrote: »
    I would have liked to see Brozzer play Bond more closer to the role he had in THE FOURTH PROTOCOL. The man was ice in that. He was deadly. Unfortunately, I didn't get this same sense when he played Bond.
    I couldn't agree more @peter. Brosnan was outstanding in The Fourth Protocol.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    I can produce a dozen such ridiculous pics of Craig in Bond films. It's a screen shot. Like the one of Craig doing the weep-game.

    Brosnan was a perfect Bond in every way and I sure hope we will get someone like him after Craig finally has enough money on the bank account.
    jake24 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    IsCnqeY.jpg
    That moment was never meant to be subtle, but a powerful moment of sheer anger and sadness, which Brosnan portrayed quite well, IMO.

    Brosnan had a wide range of acting in his Bond films. Craig has about five different facial expressions, his favourite being looking exhausted from running/fighting/climbing...so I guess Brosnan's acting skills look like overacting to some.
    Can't say I agree at all with this sentiment.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    again @BondJasonBond006-- your opinion. I like the fight with Bean and PB, but I see it as two actors in a well choreographed fight. To me, my opinion, it doesn't feel as real as anything in CR or the Slate fight in QoS, or the Patrice fight on top of the train.

    To me it's similar to the Hinx fight, and even that felt more "real"... But again, my opinion.

    And, actually, revisiting Moore's films recently, the man was a big boy, and physically I liked his work in his first two efforts.

    Dalton was more intimidating to me than PB-- he looked like a cruel SOB and would tear your throat out if he had to (although his fight in the LTK bar was pathetic).

    You don't have to "buy" anything I say. It's my opinion. And it's my opinion that PB wasn't a physical threat-- he was an actor acting tough.

    Like I said, he was far more realistic in TFP-- watch that and you'll see what I mean. Or maybe you won't. After all, opinions...
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    I agree @jake24, the criticism doesn't ring with authenticity, however, the man loves Brozzer, and perception's reality, so this is @BondJasonBond006 perception. I disagree whole-heartedly, and this is, after all, a controversial thread!!
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    As it is my opinion that Craig is highly overrated in this forum. But that'll change once a new actor is in place, if that ever happens.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Thanks for sharing, @BondJasonBond006
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    No problem, I like sharing. You can all return to nag about how awful an actor Brosnan was ;)
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    ... ah, never said he was awful! I enjoyed the man enough, his efforts are unmatched... He just isn't my favourite (sometimes it was due to what I thought his acting range was in certain scenes, other times it was due not very well written scripts)... But, in the end, we've been very lucky to have the six men who have played the role thus far.

    We all have our favourites, and we all have our least favourites, but to think of some of the actors that could have played the role, I think we should all be quite thankful that we've got, who we've got!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Given I started this little snafu, I want to clarify that I was only referring to Brosnan in emotional situations as Bond, since the initial discussion was about which actors could pull off OHMSS. I don't mind him acting the way he does in other films (like in the photo I posted above from November Man in jest) because he's not playing Bond at that point.

    It goes back to what @peter was saying about him not seeming tough enough, and so when one threw emotion on top of that it just appeared a bit wimpy to me. I think it's a combination of factors that gave me this impression. Part of it was his frame, which at the time was a bit slight & thin shouldered despite his height (it was apparent in GE when he threw that chap down the stairs aboard the Manticore and again when he fenced with Graves in DAD). Part of it was his voice and part of it was his acting which seemed uncomfortably exaggerated to me in those particular instances. One must never feel as though one would personally handle an emotional situation in a more composed fashion than a Bond actor, and on too many an occasion during his tenure, that was the impression I was unfortunately left with.

    I didn't find him credible in the running scenes either. The same goes for Moore of course.

    I found him to be quite effective in some of the gun kill scenes though (Ouromov kill, Kaufmann kill etc.). I also found him to be pretty suave, more credible with the ladies than Craig, and generally a much more accessible and 'cooler' cinematic Bond.

    Ultimately they all have their strengths and weaknesses. Only Connery was near perfect imho.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    @peter
    my posts are aimed at the forum in general and not you personally of course, I respect your opinion actually.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,150
    Brosnan has grown on me over the years, he is my least favourite though I accept him as Bond.
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